Originally Posted by MM²™

Without getting into sectarianism, its quite wierd what the sufis have in regards to their belief of saints. Their concept of saints is quite akin to the catholic/christian concept, where they believe it is not only permissible, but recommended to go to these dead 'saints' and ask them to fullfill needs. I have heard this from their own scholars.

yes, this is true.

Whilst the correct Islamic concept of a Wali is different and it is briefly explained in my previous post, and for an in depth look at it, you can refer to the book I linked to in the same post.



You see, no muslim would ever say he is worshipping other than Allaah.


But then you will see some of those who profess Islaam, believing it to be permissable to call out to other than Allaah and to seek help from other than Allaah which is in direct contradiction to the core message of Islaam. You will find them at these graves making supplication to other than Allaah whilst the Messenger has said 'Supplication is worship', and they will be directing their worship to other then Allaah when worship is to be directed to Him only. And I have seen this happen with my own eyes, people prostrating to graves and such.

yes, i have a friend who has gone to an urs celebration. are they making supplication to these saints or using them as intercessors? i realize that to use anyone for an intecessor is also considered shirk, but i don't really understand that. what about the role of intent? if he believes in his heart, and his intention is to worship god only, does the intent count? it's like a non-muslim may thing a muslim is worshipping the ka'ba, but he most definitely is not.

Yeah. You can't appreciate black, if you've never seen white. You can't appreciate Tawheed if you don't know the futility of shirk.