Regarding Ishmael, in the Bible he is not a prophet. But neither are Abaraham, Isaac, or Jacob.

Actually I never think of that one way or the other. If you were to ask me if he was illegitimate, I would only be able to think in terms of the culture I live in today, and that is irrelevant with respect to Ishamael. As I understand Abraham's culture, he would have been a true son of Abraham. Even Sarah recognized this, which is why Sarah suggested that Abraham try to have a son via her handmaiden, Hagar.



I didn't say that birthright means nothings. (If I did I was too extreme in my word choice.) My point was, that in this case, the promise of the covenant that God made with Abraham to have a son with his wife Sarah trumps the culture of the firstborn.

There are other instance of the blessing going not to the first born but to a later born child in the history of Israel, the most notable being the sons and grandsons of Isaac himself.

Isaac had twin sons Esau and Jacob. As they were born Esau's foot was delivered first and the midwife tied a string around the ankle to identify him. But then the foot was withdrawn and Jacob was born. Nonetheless, Esau is recognized as the firstborn, but Jacob gains Isaac's blessing.

Jacob had 12 sons and several wives. His favorite wife's oldest son, Joseph, is the one that received Jacob's favor. But Joseph was not the oldest son, and the older sons were all jealous of the attention that Jacob gave Joseph.

So, it seems that there are lots of exceptions not just Ishmael. And as the nation of Israel takes it's name from that fact that Jacob had his name changed to Israel by God and they are descendants of these sons of Israel, it seems highly unlikely that you are going to find a Jew who looks on birth order as more important that what God personally promises.





I don't think you are listening. I'm not talking about depriving anyone of anything. Where does it say that Ishmael should inherit this piece of land rather than that piece of land?

There is nothing I know of in the Bible with regard to the holyland being a gift to anyone based on birthorder. And in terms of it being the land only for the Jews, that does not come out of either the Ishmael or Isaac stories but out of the story of the Exodus, that God would have Moses lead the people to a "Promised" land.

I personally think that religion has nothing to do with one's rights to live any place.


Not necessarily. If everyone would realize that I was always right and then just do what I said and we would have peace. But it seems that not everyone is willing to give me that much authority.