Hello Ansar,
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Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl I don't recall that being mentioned. I was under the impression that the benign is a minority. |
I thought we'd agreed that somewhere, my mistake. Anyway, from what (little) I know of Islam, I think there is much more music Muslims would consider relatively harmless compared to the more nasty stuff we're all aware of.
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But even if that's not the case, I must say that the harmful is certainly more visible and obvious in western culture, and the benign forms seem hidden to me. For instance, go to Apple iTunes -Music website, and what are the first things you see? Go to yahoo's music site and what are your immediate observations? What do you see when you walk into a music store?
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I know exactly what you mean. That commercial attitude has very little to do with promoting music, and in an ideal world it would not exist. But just because that is what is most visible doesn't mean all music should be avoided. You're ignoring so much music that, let's be honest, you're not familiar with.
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I have a problem with telling Muslims that there's no harm in going there and listening to music. The negative impact that will have on them is inevitable. And even if they initially go to just listen to some benign music, they'll gradually be lead deeper into the harmful areas.
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Well, maybe. If someone listens to "harmful" music, is it then likely they'll become an evil person as a result? Take me, for example. I try to listen to every form of music that exists on Earth. I play several instruments, and I'm fascinated by it all. My question is, why could you not trust someone to listen to, say, Scandinavian death metal, Berlin techno or Burundi drumming and emerge unscathed? Perhaps I've indulged in the "harmful areas" of music, but the reason for that is that I listen to everything.
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Simply because of the risks involved.
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Could you tell me what risks I've taken as a keen audiophile?
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I would advise people not to wander the streets of cities at nightime, not because everyone out at night is dangerous, but because there are dangers involved.
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Go in a group and you'll have no trouble.
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And with music, you're bound to come in contact with them. Also, there is the issue of where to draw the line between what's acceptable and what isn't. You imply that this should be left up to the person, but if someone does that, they'll gradually fall prey to the whispers of their desires and Satan and will slowly move into the harmful areas.
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Really? Anyone who listens to music? I suppose I must have succumbed to Satan long ago!
As far as I'm concerned, contemporary music that is unacceptable is that which is produced with a concern for increasing profits, rather than advancing ideas about music. Anything else is fine with me.
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That's why I would simply advise that they avoid it all together. Nevertheless, if someone was really intent on listening to some benign form of music and that's all they really wanted, I'm not going to make a tremendous fuss over it.
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Right, it's the point about this not being a serious, binding restriction.
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The implication here is that western music can inspire in ways that Muslim music or nasheeds can't, and that get's back to the idea of being ethnocentric.
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Fair enough, that's part of what I wanted to say: I'm sorry if my words seem blinkered. I know for a fact that Islamic music and nasheeds mean far more to a believer than they do to me. That's obvious.
The point is that your comment works both ways - nasheeds and Islamic music inspire in ways that Western music can't, and vice versa.
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Plus, I could point out that prayer moves the mind in ways that nothing else can, and that has become a lost feature of western culture. That's why we find so many westerners examining eastern religions in search of reviving their spiritual being.
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An absolutely fair point. It's certainly true to say that many Westerners are exploring Eastern religions (as well as all sorts of cults, new age, feng shui type beliefs). The multiplicity of faiths in the West inevitably devalues them all. That situation has arisen because there is simply no reason to believe any of them. As G.K. Chesterton (English novelist and devout Christian) said: "When people stop believing in something, they will believe in anything."
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Additionally, with idea of being ethnocentric, I wanted to point out that this extends to all parts of western culture, not just music. There's an expectation that people must conform to western culture, and that its generally superior.
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I do think Western culture is immense and hugely important, but I'm aware that it's not the whole picture, by any stretch of the imagination. However, where have all the major inventions come from in the last 500 years or so?
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I'll give you an example - Western celebrations. Muslims often find themselves in conversations like this:"What did you get for Christmas?"
"err...I don't celebrate christmas."
"You don't celebrate Christmas?! Why not??"
"err...because I'm not a Christian"
"Bah! That's ridiculous - you don't have to be Christian to celebrate Christmas!" This is probably something a lot of Musims living in the west can relate to.
The Muslim would wonder, Why is there this expectation that I have to celebrate Christmas? I'm not asking everyone why they're not fasting in Ramadan!
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Of course you don't need to be a Christian to celebrate Christmas. It's a pagan festival anyway, now allied with commerce, and with very little to do with Jesus.
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Well of course they're 'available', just as many cultures are available to westerners, because they're are secular, they can't do what they want without concern for any guidelines.
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I'm not sure what you mean here.
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There's really no reason for a westerner to avoid anything.
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Anything cultural, certainly.
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But I see a conflict between becoming a better Muslim and assimilating into western culture.
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And therein lies the problem. Who says anyone needs to assimilate into Western culture? People can think as they please.
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And the Muslims are not isolating themselves from other cultures - indeed, amongst the Muslim community you will find a broad range of different cultural influences, encompassing African, Arab, Indian, Oriental and many more cultures. We are open to different cultures.
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Islam, from what I've seen, is the most insular of the major religions, and also the most given to proselytising. No other religion is so full of suspicion and half-concealed contempt for the non-adherent.
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It's like advising people to stay away from most fast-food restaurants (a predominant feature of western culture) as they can be harmful to one's health, one's physical well-being.
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All fast-food restaurants are bad for your health; not all music is.
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While that is one point that may be involved, the guidelines for music stem from a totally different angle. I would say that the vast majority of music would be harmful for one's spiritual well-being. And in saying that, I don't think I'm closing off any benefit that couldn't be recieved through better means, and I don't think we're lacking in any way because we have Qiraa'at, Salaah (prayer) and Nasheeds.
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Would it be fair to call this kind of thinking ethnocentric? In other words, since you have three aural aspects of culture, are the many thousands of others that exist on the planet not worth considering?
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Now, I have a question for you. What is one word that best represents the predominant theme in western music? What is the main idea in most songs you will find when you walk into that music stroe, or go to that music site?
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Two different questions.
1. The one word is "music". Since you're talking about such a huge area, there's no more specific referent.
2. The idea that's most apparent in contemporary Western pop music is sex.
Peace