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Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl You make music synonymous culture, and I understand that it plays an integral role in western culture, but that doesn't mean that one should expect other cultures to integrate it and make it an integral part of their culture. |
My mistake - I don't mean to say that music = all culture, but I do think it's true to say that Islam is particularly incurious about other cultures.
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This gets back to the issue of ethnocentricity.
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Again, which attitude is more ethnocentric, one which is curious about other cultures or one that is not?
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If we don't want to make music an integral part of our culture the way it is in western culture, why do we automatically recieve the label of 'insularity'? We're not asking westerners to integrate prayer into their culture and make it an integral part of their culture.
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That you think its a fantasy is not fact, its an opinion that you can't substantiate.
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That many people in the West in the late 19th and early 20th centuries began to see "the spiritual" as a fantasy is a fact that can be clearly substantiated by looking at the history of those times. Hume, Darwin, Eliot, Hardy, Freud, Nietzsche, Marx, Spencer all believed this - the list goes on and on.
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And if that was the case, then we would not see such a desperate attempt to revive one's spiritual side that sends many people into long quests.
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You're absolutely right that the West is experiencing some sort of spiritual revival, with people flocking to new-age healers and investigating Wicca and other such substitutes for religion. This is all happening as they lose faith in mainstream religion - I don't say it's a good thing or a bad thing; people are just finding new ways to waste their time.
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Suicide rates are rising in the west because people have starved this side and neglected it, causing them to go into despair at the futility of their life. But of course, this is another topic all-together.
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Yes; it's also an opinion that would be difficult to prove.
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It seems that you have not adequately studied the history of the Muslim world if you feel that cultural insularity was a factor.
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I expect you're right that I haven't studied Islamic history enough, but I still think what I'm saying is plausible.
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If this was true then it should have caused a decline in the Muslim world when they first expanded and extended their territories into Africa, Perisa, India, Turkey, Malaysia and Spain.
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Why would that necessarily follow? The Muslim world expanded and progressed up to the Middle Ages and the Golden Age of Islam, then attempted to hold on to that summit of achievement by maintaining an unadaptible system, not open to new or foreign influences, and thus stagnating. The cultural insularity I refer to originates from the time of the Golden Age, as far as I can tell. A culture that is expanding and extending its territories would obviously have to be more open and willing to accept other cultures, to avoid rebellion.
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You use the broad label of 'cultural insularity' simply because of the guidelines Islam has set with regard to music.
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I wouldn't say my labelling has derived simply from Islamic attitudes towards music. I've formed that opinion based on Islamic attitudes to many things from the
Dar al-Harb.
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Right, like the stories about how the early Muslims dealt with kindnesss with the Ethiopian Christians and how they were forgiving to even a non-muslim bedouin who urinated in the mosque.
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Good stories, and there are many others like them showing Muslim kindness to non-Muslims. However, it would be very shortsighted to say that Muslims never express negative views of
kaffirs. There's a strong undercurrent of resentment and simmering hostility towards them in the Muslim community, and it's clearly apparent on the world stage. It may not be the view of the majority of Muslims, but it's there.
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Islam does not need to justify itself according to a secular philosophy where aall religions are equal, because they are equally false. Islam is justified according to its own philosophy that kufr is disobedience to God, that we are sent on this earth with a divine purpose and our lives are not futile, and that we must perform our duty to God and invite others to it as well.
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So, Islam is justified by Islam. Fair enough, if you're happy with that reasoning.
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Those who reject faith in God will be punished, but God is most just and deals with everyone according to their own circumstances. If someone never recieves the true guidance, they are not held accountable for that.
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That's a fair view, I suppose. I'm interested in what you mean by true guidance, though. If someone in a tribe in the Amazon rainforest never heard about Islam in his life, it's very lenient not to expect him to have to work out the Islamic truth by hmself. What about if someone told him about Islam but didn't explain it very well? Presumably that wouldn't be true guidance - or would it?
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The divine message sent by God should not be altered.
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Does that mean there's nothing culturally or temporally specific in the Qur'an and hadiths?
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Only in what negatively impacts one's spiritual well-being.
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To a Westerner, that looks like an awful lot, since so many things are
haraam. Of course, Muslims must be amazed that so many things are allowed in the West.
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Islam is not contemputuous of them, rather it seeks to guide them.
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True, Islam is not, but some Muslims are.
Peace