There was a Christian scribe who wrote what Mohammed PBUH revealed, and of course all religions worshipped at the Kabaa, so the Prophet was very familiar with the written works of the Jews whom he paid to read the Torah to him. The Prophet would have met many Jews and Christians in his travels before he was married and seemed to be quite famiiar with Christian and Judaic teachings. In fact there are some quite similar tenets in the in the Torah, Bible and Quran.

cleverest thread yet (got to admire it for its originality) I may reply later, after seeing Br. Woodrow's post

Why would this cause any doubts? In fact it should help strengthen your faith in Islam. Makkah and Medina were populated with Pagans, Jews and Christians. We can safely assume that the first Companions of the Prophet(PBUH) would have been reverts from these people. Why would those Jews and Christians have accepted Islam, unless they saw the Qur'an was the true word of Allaah(swt) and not what they had been raised to believe. If the Qur'an was simply an Arabic translation of Jewish or Christian Scriptures, would that have not increased Judaism and Christianity in the region, rather than winning nearly 100% acceptance of Islam? Would that have not been an immediate aruement to present in regards to the Qur'anic challenge? Plus the Bible would have been taught to the Arabic Christians in Arabic and most Arabs would have understood the Hebrew of the Tauret anyhow. The Qur'an was never seen as being an Arabic translation of anything by the people of that time or place, why should anybody else think so.

JazakAllah Khair!!! (all concisely done and dusted in typically beautiful Woodrow fashion)

Hi Doorster - the reference for my answer was from Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah , translated by Guillaume.

Ahlan wa sahlanSister, I had no problem with the content of your post to speak of, my comment was directed at post number 1 (however I am amazed at the coincidental nature of your very first post).

Ma'asalaama

OOps! Sorry Doorster, I was being too big for my boots!

Salaam/Peace

That's because all came from the same source - God Almighty.

Be careful of this line of reasoning as So do the mormons say the same about their book.

sorry for a late reply.


It's good to ask and clear your doubts insha Allah.


First of all, there were hardly any Jews and Christians within Makkah. If there were any, there was only an extreeemly small minority.

If there were any, they were forced by the Quraysh to remain on the outskirts of Makkah, because the Quraysh feared to lose their business and trade of idols. So they would try to keep these people who were against idol worship [the Jews and Christians] from being outside the influence of the Arabs. So they kept them on the outskirts of Makkah. [This is mentioned in Muhammadur Rasulullah (Muhammad, the Messenger of God), by Abul Hassan Nadwi.]


Now someone can argue that Prophet Muhammad would go outside of Makkah to visit these Christians or Jews on the outskirts. But the reality is, this was never the case. He was from the noble tribe of Quraysh, so he was always kept eye on by his people as to his whereabouts, since the arabs cared about their tribesmen.

But if they still persist on this argument, then we have to ask them; who was this arab (or even non arab) who was at such a high level of arabic language, who had such deep knowledge of its literature, aswell as the history of the previous religions - to give a Qur'an which couldn't be imitated by even the nobles of Quraysh - who were at the highest degrees of arabic rhetoric and eloquence?


These people won't be able to give a name. So instead, they'll say that it was a man who was not well known. But for someone to not be well known, yet to have such amazing language skills in arabic, with whom no-one can compete with - cannot be a reality. This person, if he had such high level of the arabic language AND the history of Christians and Jews, his name would be known amongst all the arabs, and in history books till today. Why? Because poetry was the biggest source of media at that time, the arabs would spread news through it - so the news would spread over Arabia through someone who is extremely eloquent. Its like saying CNN news channel is well known around the world, because its the biggest source of News media.

Now if someone is so eloquent, that they teach Prophet Muhammad [whose never had a reputation for being poetic/shaa'ir], then the one who he hears it off will also have to be famous in the arabic language. His name should have been well known. But the thing is, these people, nor the Quraysh at that time could prove that it was another human, they couldn't even give a name.

Shockingly, uptill today - nobody has been able to compete or equal the Qur'an. So if it was limited for that time only, how come no-one can still reach its height today?

Here's some examples;
http://salaf-stories.blogspot.com/20...poetry-of.html



This is in 2 stages.

Imagine he was in the cave of Hira, and he stayed there for a year or abit more or less. As soon as he got the first revelations, he never went back there again. And for 23years of his life, he never returned there again.

So who did he get the rest of the Qur'an off?


Furthermore, the Qur'an talks about new situations which the Prophet has never faced before, things he couldn't even imagine while being in the cave. i.e. the battles he faced, and the different rulings, and even the questions which the people of other religions asked him [to confirm if he really was a Messenger of Allah or not]. Yet he was correct in these answers.

Now who did he hear these answers off?


Think about it, after his claim of Prophethood, none of his companions left him. They recorded everything about him, and even when he went home - his wives watched everything he did. So when would he have the time to go to a hidden person to get all his information?

Someone might say that he knew enough now because he had learnt it all beforehand, but this isn't true, since he faced newer and newer situations and was asked newer questions by even the Jews and Christians, to which he gave the correct responses.


So again, who did he get this info. off, and where did he go? To answer 'someplace but i dont know' is not enough. Otherwise, that persons argument isn't worthy anything.




There were people who were Hunafah [monotheists] but they either became Muslim, or died before Prophet Muhammad was even mature. And if he wasn't mature, he would have people around him (his family members) who would always keep an eye on him for his safety.



Like i've mentioned in my first paragraph, the Quraysh wouldn't let them do this. And even if they did, the Quraysh, including Prophet Muhammad's family, did not give Prophet Muhammad an upbringing to learn from these other religious faiths. Simply because the family of Quraysh were the guardians of the Ka'bah, so they wouldn't want their children to get influenced by other religions.


I think i've read in Ahmed Deedat's books that the bible wasn't translated into arabic during the life of Prophet Muhammad.



Which christian was this?

And even then, the bible isn't eloquent like the Qur'an is. So if you translate the Bible, and put it into arabic, its not going to be like the Qur'an.

Since Prophet Muhammad is not poetic, and has never had a history of being poetic like the arabs, then who put the bible in the Qur'anic form? If someone says the christian did, then why would this christian make a Qur'an which opposes his own beliefs [i.e. the parts which oppose the trinity etc]?

Furthermore, how did this christian know what would happen for the remainder of the 23years in the life of Prophet Muhammad and his companions (since the Qur'an discusses this in depth too)?



Ameen.


The main thing you should keep in mind is that Prophet Muhammad has never been a untrustworthy character, from before his Prophethood, and even after his Prophethood. The fact that he has never lied once, even about minor matters proves this, so why would he lie about Allah? And if he had lied about Allah, then Allah would destroy a liar, and Allah would not make him victorious, like he truly was.



Allah knows best.

Salaam

Yeah he was known to be the trustworthy al amin - people would also leave there belongings to him and he would return them. Furthermore many Jews converted to Islam later on including Abdullah ibn salem(ra).

peace

It was Abdullah ibn Salaam

http://www.islamicboard.com/companio...bn-sailam.html (Abdullah Ibn Sailam)



The jews would ask questions like; Who was Prophet Yusuf, and why did the Jews go to Egypt;

At that time some of the unbelievers put this question (probably at the instigation of the Jews) to test him :"Why did the Israelites go to Egypt?" This question was asked because they knew that their story was not known to the Arabs for there was no mention of it whatever in their traditions and the Holy Prophet had never even referred to it before. Therefore they expected that he would not be able to give any satisfactory answer to this question or would first evade it, and afterwards try to inquire about it from some Jew, and thus he would be totally exposed. But, contrary to their expectations, the tables were turned on them, for Allah revealed the whole story of Prophet Joseph then and there, and the Holy Prophet recited it on the spot. This put the Quraish in a very awkward position because it not only foiled their scheme but also administered a warning to them by aptly applying it to their case, as if to say, "As you are behaving towards this Prophet, exactly in the same way the brothers of Prophet Joseph behaved towards him; so you shall meet with the same end."

http://englishtafsir.com/Quran/12/index.html

To suggest that the Bible and Torat was the source of what is in the Quran is not new, but has already been proven impossible on so many accounts.

1- Mighty silly for the christians and jews to choose an Arab to give him the bible in and Torat in secret or in the cave and then never say that even when they were refuting him and calling him a madman, a poet, and an illusionist along with the infidels.

2- What is in the quran is much more encompassing and comprehensive than what is in the Torat and Bible. That includes stories of Jesus himself as well as other prophets and the beginning of creation that were found to be correct with real evidence and what high monks admitted that they never spoke of. That also included many admissions by jewish monks in specific that the Quran and Mohammed's -pbuh- rulings were matching the ones that they used to have in the days of Moses but was abrogated or removed, including stoning the adulterers who were married.

3- The quran refuted many mistakes that resulted from the human editing and manipulation of the bible, that were sources of frustration to even jews and christians, like Adam and Eve carrying equal blame for the disobedience, and that they were both forgiven, like Jesus was a prophet not a God who could not defend himself, that asking for forgiveness is direct to God and no hired monk or priest is needed, and that people are accountable to good and bad deeds not just to holding Jesus in their hearts.

4- The quran had descriptions of the World's different aspects that until today we are realizing that they were true and could not have been known by anyone at the time including the jews and christians. These description of what would be at the time miraculous unknowns were proven true one by one and never failed even as they cross a hundred today, including the creation of human microscopic embryos, the celestial bodies floating in orbit in open space rather than stuck in solid transparent spheres like christians claimed, ratio of land to water on Earth, supernovas and death of stars, etc. etc.. It also presented precise prophecies that came up later on and turned out true like Rome's victory after their loss and others.

5- That the Quran structure and language and complete balance could not have been inspired by any human, and it stands today with perfect consistency and complete lack of contradiction or error and in linguistic style perfection despite 1400 years time.

So many more you can check for yourself online by simply searching on what makes the Quran miraculous. In addition you might want to check that the prophet (by your description illiterate) has been foretold in the Jewish scripture and the Gospels. This quote is from the Gospels:

"[7.157] those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet,
whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law
and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids
them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and
pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure);
He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes
that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour
him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,-
it is they who will prosper."

I can refer you to an expert on this subject if you wish, he loves refuting such claims, and he's quite good at it as well considering he practically knows the Torat and Bibles inside out.

And May God grant us all real guidance.

Salaam

thanks for that - i edited it

Great post by the way.