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Thread: Alcohol vs Intoxicants

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    Limited Member Array qweretyq's Avatar
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    Default Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Is alcohol specifically forbidden in the Quran or is it intoxicants? I ask because I have heard that whatever intoxicates you in small or big amounts is haraam.

    In this case, let's say (hypothetically) you dropped one drop of beer into a swimming pool of drinking water and mixed it evenly. Is that water halal to drink (since it cannot intoxicate you no matter how much you drink?

    Please point to Quranic verses or Hadith and/or help distinguish between the arabic words for alcohol and intoxicants.

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    Full Member Array rk9414's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Every intoxicant is khamr and every intoxicant is forbidden.

    The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is forbidden."

    Sheikh al-`UthaymÓn, while discussing these hadÓth, says:

    If a small quantity of alcohol is so submerged in something else that is has no tangible or theoretical effect, then the substance keeps the ruling that is in accordance with its own attributes. As for the hadÓth that states 'Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is forbidden', this refers to a certain beverage that intoxicates when someone drinks a lot of it but not when he drinks a little. It is unlawful to drink a small quantity of such a beverage, because even though a small quantity cannot make a person drunk, it can lead to drinking larger quantities." [MajmŻ` al-Fat‚w‚ (4/260)]

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    Assalamu alaykum Array Snowflake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Good question! According to some scholars, alcohol isn't najis (impure) it is simply forbidden. I don't think one drop of alcohol would be traceable in a swimming pool of water. Alcohol is produced naturally in our bodies but in such small amounts that is doesn't have any physiological effect. The question is, what is meant by 'forbidden in small amounts'? Does it mean trace elements, or a small glass/dose of the substance?

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    Assalamu alaykum Array Snowflake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Quote Originally Posted by rk9414 View Post
    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Every intoxicant is khamr and every intoxicant is forbidden.

    The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is forbidden."

    Sheikh al-`UthaymÓn, while discussing these hadÓth, says:

    If a small quantity of alcohol is so submerged in something else that is has no tangible or theoretical effect, then the substance keeps the ruling that is in accordance with its own attributes. As for the hadÓth that states 'Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is forbidden', this refers to a certain beverage that intoxicates when someone drinks a lot of it but not when he drinks a little. It is unlawful to drink a small quantity of such a beverage, because even though a small quantity cannot make a person drunk, it can lead to drinking larger quantities." [MajmŻ` al-Fat‚w‚ (4/260)]
    The hadith is referring to substances in 'small quantities' which can be seen, touch, smelt, drank etc. And even they don't intoxicate in small quantities, are probably still forbidden as people can develope a taste for them. But I don't see how a trace of an intoxicating substance is haram if it can't intoxicate.
    Last edited by Snowflake; 07-17-2009 at 07:00 AM. Reason: my editing's gones mad!

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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah View Post
    But I don't see how a trace of an intoxicating substance is haram if it can't intoxicate.
    i believe that was what the sheik was implying

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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Ok thanks,
    There is a widespread misconception amongst Muslims that alcohol is forbidden.

    But based on what you have given, substances that cannot intoxicate you no matter how much you drink (such as "non-alcholic" beer (<.5% alcohol)) would be halal.

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    IB Oldskool Array ardianto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Who said alcohol is haram ?.

    Alcohol is not haram if we don't drink it. We can use alcohol for clean something or use alcohol as fuel. But we are not allowed to drink alcohol because alcohol is an intoxicants, even if this is a beer with less than 0000,1% alcohol. Every intoxicants is haram to drink or eat. And if you dropped a drop of alcohol in swimming pool of water and you drink this water, that's means you drink intoxicants.

    There are other intoxicants such as heroin, cocaine, marijuana etc.
    Last edited by ardianto; 07-18-2009 at 04:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Quote Originally Posted by ardianto View Post
    Who said alcohol is haram ?.

    Alcohol is not haram if we don't drink it. We can use alcohol for clean something or use alcohol as fuel. But we are not allowed to drink alcohol because alcohol is an intoxicants, even if this is a beer with less than 0000,1% alcohol. Every intoxicants is haram to drink or eat. And if you dropped a drop of alcohol in swimming pool of water and you drink this water, that's means you drink intoxicants.

    There are other intoxicants such as heroin, cocaine, marijuana etc.
    I would agree with what Sheikh Uthaymeen said, if a small quantity of alcohol is so submerged in something else that is has no tangible or theoretical effect, then the substance keeps the ruling that is in accordance with its own attributes.

    This is why drinks such as pepsi, which may contain trace amounts of alcohol from vanilla extract, would not be declared impermissible. Even many natural foods contain trace amounts of alcohol such as fruits, juices, vegetables, breads, cheeses, honey, etc.

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    Glory Be To Allah Array aadil77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    yh almost all drinks have a tiny bit of atheyl alcohol or something like that, which isn't haraam as its not from grapes or dates and cannot intoxicate

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    IB Oldskool Array ardianto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Quote Originally Posted by rk9414 View Post
    I would agree with what Sheikh Uthaymeen said, if a small quantity of alcohol is so submerged in something else that is has no tangible or theoretical effect, then the substance keeps the ruling that is in accordance with its own attributes.

    This is why drinks such as pepsi, which may contain trace amounts of alcohol from vanilla extract, would not be declared impermissible. Even many natural foods contain trace amounts of alcohol such as fruits, juices, vegetables, breads, cheeses, honey, etc.
    I must clarify must old post.
    I am agree pepsi and natural foods/drinks that contain trace amount of alcohol is not haram. But, actually in my old post I didn't say about drinks/foods like these.

    I say if you dropped a drop of alcohol (liqueur) to a swimming pool of water then you drink this water, that's means you drink a haram water. I say this because I found some people make cocktail and add some drops of liqueur to this cocktail. Of course this cocktail is haram.

    I am sure you can differentiate cocktail like this and natural drinks that contain trace amount of alcohol.

    Once again, If I said "Who said alcohol is Haram ?". That's because my 'deen' teacher is high school said "If alcohol is haram, we can't use alcohol in industries".

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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Quote Originally Posted by rk9414 View Post
    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Every intoxicant is khamr and every intoxicant is forbidden.

    The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is forbidden."

    Sheikh al-`UthaymÓn, while discussing these hadÓth, says:

    If a small quantity of alcohol is so submerged in something else that is has no tangible or theoretical effect, then the substance keeps the ruling that is in accordance with its own attributes. As for the hadÓth that states 'Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, then a small quantity of it is forbidden', this refers to a certain beverage that intoxicates when someone drinks a lot of it but not when he drinks a little. It is unlawful to drink a small quantity of such a beverage, because even though a small quantity cannot make a person drunk, it can lead to drinking larger quantities." [MajmŻ` al-Fat‚w‚ (4/260)]
    Would this not also then apply to tea? Tea contains caffeine, more specifically the theobromine variant of caffeine which can be intoxicating in large quantities. Is it haram to drink tea?

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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    On a slightly different note, coffee contains caffein, which is a mood-altering substance. What's the ruling on drinking coffee?

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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Oh come on brother, stop making a mountain out of a molehill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    I say if you dropped a drop of alcohol (liqueur) to a swimming pool of water then you drink this water, that's means you drink a haram water. I say this because I found some people make cocktail and add some drops of liqueur to this cocktail. Of course this cocktail is haram.
    That cocktail would intoxicate you if you drank a lot of it, whereas the swimming pool (well mixed) would not.

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    IB Oldskool Array ardianto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Quote Originally Posted by qweretyq View Post
    That cocktail would intoxicate you if you drank a lot of it, whereas the swimming pool (well mixed) would not.
    That is right, this water would not intoxicate anyone.
    However, if you dropped one drop of beer in a swimming pool of water and mixed it well, this water is haram FOR YOU because you did it intentionally, and you know the beer is haram. I know it from some scholars. But I am not sure if this water is also haram for someone else.

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    Default Re: Alcohol vs Intoxicants


    Quote Originally Posted by naidamar View Post
    On a slightly different note, coffee contains caffein, which is a mood-altering substance. What's the ruling on drinking coffee?
    Coffee is halal.
    You can drink coffee with sugar, milk, creamer, or even with ginger or mint. But if you mix this coffee with haram drink like brandy, this coffee becomes haram.
    Of course, I am sure, as a Muslim you will not mix coffee with haram drink.

    However, I often hear people say "Don't drink coffee too much".
    Last edited by ardianto; 07-28-2009 at 05:30 AM.

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