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Thread: What are these Muslims doing?

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    IB Oldtimer Array Samiun's Avatar
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    Question What are these Muslims doing?


    Can someone explain to me what these Muslims are doing? This was shot by me, and someone commented on it claiming it to be 'bayah'



    Islam is so simple!!

    Look at the 22nd hadeeth of Imam Nawawi HERE


    Abu Darda' reported Allah's Apostle as saying: If anyone learns by heart the first ten verses of the Surah al-kahf, he will be protected from the Dajjal.(Sahih Muslim)
    Please make dua for Samiun

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Wa alaykum salam,

    Yeah, it looks like bay'ah.

    They are pledging an oath of allegiance to a shaykh of one of the paths of tasawuf.

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude View Post
    Wa alaykum salam,

    Yeah, it looks like bay'ah.

    They are pledging an oath of allegiance to a shaykh of one of the paths of tasawuf.
    I was all confused when they did this, it was my first time seeing it. So are we as Muslims suppose to pledge an oath of allegiance to an Imam/scholar/shaykh at a mosque nearby?


    Islam is so simple!!

    Look at the 22nd hadeeth of Imam Nawawi HERE


    Abu Darda' reported Allah's Apostle as saying: If anyone learns by heart the first ten verses of the Surah al-kahf, he will be protected from the Dajjal.(Sahih Muslim)
    Please make dua for Samiun

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    IB Oldskool Array ardianto's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?




    In Malay language we call bayah as "bai'at". (eng=oath of allegiance)

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    IB Oldskool Array ardianto's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Samiun View Post
    So are Muslims suppose to pledge an oath of allegiance to an Imam/scholar/shaykh at a mosque nearby?
    No.

    But if those people pledge and oath of allegiance to that shaykh, that's because that shaykh is their group leader. They are from a Sufi group.

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    Cold of heart Array Alpha Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Samiun View Post
    I was all confused when they did this, it was my first time seeing it. So are we as Muslims suppose to pledge an oath of allegiance to an Imam/scholar/shaykh at a mosque nearby?
    Tasawuf just means to cleanse oneself from all evil habits and inclinations of the heart (lust, envy, pride etc) and fill it with good qualities (selflessness, humility etc) whilst gaining an appreciation of the existence of Allah (ihsan). This is obligatory upon all Muslims. In a hadith, it is said that there is one organ which if it is sound, the whole body is sound. The organ in question is the heart.

    Purification of the heart can be done by the self or we can go to a shaykh who has knowledge of this matter and can provide guidance on how to best achieve the goal. In which case, if Allah wills, we may gain progress in the endevour quicker and more strongly than if we were to struggle along by ourselves, hence why there are people out there who emphasise going to a shaykh and asking for his guidance on these spiritual matters.

    A proper shaykh will have sat at the feet of a teacher who would have sat at the feet of his teacher to gain benefit from with a chain that carries on like this until the Prophet salallahualaihewassalam.

    There's a lot of assumptions made that sufism is full of shirk, bidah, grave worshipping etc which are not true.

    Yes, there are some groups out there who do indulge in these kinds of evil practises but at the same time, there are pious sufi mashaaikh who follow the quran and sunnah to the letter and stay clear of these things.

    Our Prophet Muhammad sallalahualaihewassalam came with three strands of knowledge: that related to the external- rules/regulations (fiqh), that related to the internal/spiritual side of things (tasawuf) and that related to creedal matters (aqeeda).

    All three facets of deen are important and all have their origin in the life and teachings and message of Prophet sallalahualaihewassalam, whilst they may not have been properly formalised during the time in which he lived (i.e. they were all there, as realities without a name).

    As we know from the hadith, scholars are the inheritors of Prophethood. It is not just the external knowledge/fiqh that they can learn and inherit but rather those qualities related to character and closeness to Allah. Both the baatin and dhaahir qualities need to be present in order to be considered a proper inheritor. A shaykh who has knowledge of the external and the internal aspects is a rare commodity and one should hasten to gain from him.

    That's my understanding, may Allah forgive me for anything I have said wrong.

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude View Post
    Purification of the heart can be done by the self or we can go to a shaykh who has knowledge of this matter and can provide guidance on how to best achieve the goal.
    Providing guidance seems okay, why would you need to pledge allegiance to them? After all, purification of the heart, is (for the most part) something done personally, something between you and Allah, the Shaykh can only give guidelines on what you choose to portray.




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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazalah View Post
    Providing guidance seems okay, why would you need to pledge allegiance to them?
    From what I've noticed, bro Alpha Dude did not say we/he need to pledge allegiance to a shaykh.

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    The question is if the prophet(SAW) and his people did this "ritual"? Purification of the heart is done by worshipping Allah and remembring him(Salah, fast, reading quran, dikr). This way you cleanse the heart.

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazalah View Post
    Providing guidance seems okay, why would you need to pledge allegiance to them? After all, purification of the heart, is (for the most part) something done personally, something between you and Allah, the Shaykh can only give guidelines on what you choose to portray.
    Pledging an allegiance means that you are agreeing to obey someone. When you see someone of superior understanding in any matter to you, what you usually do, is defer to their judgement and trust in them because you are aware that although they are not perfect, they have more understanding than you. It is the same case here. When you pledge allegiance, you are agreeing to defer to their judgement and agreeing to accept their advice without hesitation and with due humility.

    You do bay'ah with the intention of pleasing Allah, with the intention of fulfilling a sunnah (please listen to the first 15-20 or so minutes of this clip, it mentions something on this - it is in English but slightly accented), with the intention of reforming your character and repenting from all previous sins.

    You'd be signing a figurative contract to say that the shaykh has authority over your spiritual reformation and that you will be loyal and do what he asks of you. You are placing your trust in him. In his ability to guide and correct the condition of your heart.

    For a shaykh to take on students is a huge responsibility and if he's going to lay his akhira on the line (lest he misguides someone) the least a seeker can do is provide a promise that he will follow the advice given to the letter and not deviate from instruction.

    In order for him to help, you have to let him know of the problems you experience and then he will be able to provide advice and prescribe something accordingly. You have to follow them obediently.

    Signing up for such a thing should be with matters pertaining to the reformation of the self and not about being the personal slave of someone - if anyone does treat his students as slaves for his wordly needs then he is not worthy of being followed in the first place.

    This kind of oath is similar to what we find when we look at the anecdote regarding Musa Alaihe Salam, when he gave an oath of obedience to Khidr AS that he will follow without questioning.

    Another thing is, it's fine when you go from shaykh to shaykh to obtain general advice, but when you are given something specific to recite by one shaykh based on his assessment of you, there is a chance of conflict arising if you then in addition ask another shaykh for further stuff to do/recite. Hence, it is required that you stay with only one shaykh for spiritual reformation.

    The question is if the prophet(SAW) and his people did this "ritual"? Purification of the heart is done by worshipping Allah and remembring him(Salah, fast, reading quran, dikr). This way you cleanse the heart.
    Giving bayah is giving an oath. i.e. you are promising something. There's nothing ritualistic about it.

    In different cultures there are different ways of giving oath. Some will take a person's hand into their hand and pledge it like that and others may simply give it by voice.

    In fact, you can give bayah over the phone, it doesn't even have to be in person like in the video.

    Purification of the heart is done by worshipping Allah and remembring him(Salah, fast, reading quran, dikr). This way you cleanse the heart.
    Indeed and this is in fact what a proper sufi shaykh would get you to do albeit the dosages and method would be a more specific subset of the above things, tailored to the seeker's needs.

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    brother Alpha Dude,

    It is nice to see you again on the forum.

    You mentioned that Bay'ah is done with the intention to please Allaah (swt) and fulfil a Sunnah, amongst other things. I confess I did not listen to the clip because a download was involved etc. But whilst trying to find more information on this, I came across a small discussion on almaghrib forums which gave a different picture. The link is:
    http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=51716

    Shaykh Yasir Qadhi says:
    [...] There is no evidence that such a bay'ah should be given to anyone else. No famous scholars of fiqh, hadeeth, tafseer, etc of the first three generations (or even afterwards) would require their students to take bay'ah before studying with them. Rather, certain groups introduced this practice as an 'initiation ceremony' for a devotee to join their ranks and eventually climb up in their hiearchies.

    Since there is no evidence to support such a bay'ah, and this bay'ah has religious connotations, it must be labeled an innovation.

    And Allah knows best.
    His other post about Sufis is also interesting to note:

    To summarize, there are in the present day and age no organized Sufi tariqahs that are error-free. The least problem that one finds in all of them, without exception, are innovations in their acts of worship. Such Sufis, whilst mistaken in these innovations, are in a completely different category than those who ascribe to their 'awliya' powers of rububiyyah or even attributes of Allah (such as knowing everything, hearing the calls of their murids, etc.). And these Sufis are (slightly) better than those who actually ask their 'saints' for supernatural help, shafa'ah, Jannah, etc.

    As I've said at least a dozen times, the problem with talking about the Sufis is that they are such a broad spectrum of groups, with beliefs ranging from very slight bid'ah to all-out shirk. The most famous 'moderate' Sufi speakers or Sufi-sympathetic Institutes in this country are not (from what I have seen) advocating any type of shirk, and alhamdulillah for that. However, minor deviations lead to major ones, and major deviations lead to shirk. Each sin and vice is dealt with according to the severity it deserves, in light of the place/context we are living in. Hence, these 'moderate' Sufis should be corrected gently, there errors pointed out to the masses, but for the most part there should also be a general feeling of Muslim brotherhood for them as well - they are sincerely seeking to come closer to Allah, even if it be through innovated means. So our anger at their mistakes should not overcome our love at their iman and ikhlas - each in its place. This is a common problem that most Muslims do not realize - you can love a Muslim for the good in him and hate the evil present in him at the same time. A misunderstanding of this principle leads to extremism on both sides - on the one side a lack of criticism and naseeha, and on the other a lack of mercy and compassion. Ahl al-sunnah understand this principle correctly, and therefore give each person what is due to him, of both love and hate.
    I found a few other concepts in your post troublesome. You mentioned that pledging allegiance involves 'agreeing to defer to their judgement and agreeing to accept their advice without hesitation and with due humility'. And that 'you'd be signing a figurative contract to say that the shaykh has authority over your spiritual reformation and that you will be loyal and do what he asks of you. You are placing your trust in him. In his ability to guide and correct the condition of your heart'. It is my understanding that such close devotion and trust to the words of another human can only be reserved for our Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam), as only he is infallible with regards to the message of Islam. All other scholars and teachers after him are not free of error, so how can we make such a pledge to follow every word of theirs without question, whether in matters of self reformation or others?

    With specific regards to placing one's trust in another's ability to guide and correct the condition of one's heart, I found the following verses from the Qur'an pertinent:

    ...And whoever believes in Allah – He will guide his heart. And Allah is Knowing of all things. And obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn away – then upon Our Messenger is only [the duty of] clear notification. Allah – there is no deity except Him. And upon Allah let the believers rely.
    [Surah Taghabun: 11-13]


    And Allaah (swt) knows best and may He forgive us for our errors.





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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    If I am not mistaken the first generation of muslims had bayah as well though it may have been in a different context.

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    ^ That's true. Apologies, perhaps I should have quoted the full post which mentions this:

    Salaam Alaikum

    It was the practice of the Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wa salam to take bay'ah from those who had accepted Islam, or, occasionaly, before a battle (such as during the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah, for they expected a battle to ensue). Additionaly he commanded Muslims to give bay'ah to the khalifah, and to then fulfill and honor this bay'ah. It was always the practice of the Muslims throughout our history that they would give bay'ah to the ruler (usually the leader or representative of each tribe would give bay'ah on behalf of the others).

    There is no evidence that such a bay'ah should be given to anyone else. No famous scholars of fiqh, hadeeth, tafseer, etc of the first three generations (or even
    afterwards) would require their students to take bay'ah before studying with them. Rather, certain groups introduced this practice as an 'initiation ceremony' for a devotee to join their ranks and eventually climb up in their hiearchies.

    Since there is no evidence to support such a bay'ah, and this bay'ah has religious connotations, it must be labeled an innovation.

    And Allah knows best.

    Yasir
    And a couple of posts down:

    Salaam Aliakum

    The Prophet salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam would also take other types of bay'ah, but these were specific to him. The other two types (which I mentioned above) were general for all future leaders and commanders.

    The proof that these other types of bay'ah were specific to him is that such bay'ahs can only be given to those who themselves are worthy of it. Which Shaykh can give such a tazkiyyah himself, i.e., that he is worhty of taking a bay'ah from someone not to commit any sin or ask anyone of anything?

    What proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt is that the Companions, tabi'oon and those after them never practiced this habit, even though had it been something praiseworthy, they would have preceded us in it.

    Yasir





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    Cold of heart Array Alpha Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Wa alaykum salam,

    It's nice to be back. Hope you are well.

    I would suggest, in all sincerity, to not blindly follow anyone who tells you that it is bidah to follow a path of tasawuf via giving bay'ah to a shaykh. Look at other scholars, seek out sincere teachers and analyse what they say as far as evidence is concerned before making your mind up. Don't be afraid to go to a sufi shaykh (obviously, not one who is blatant in shirk, kufr acts etc) and listen to him directly for his evidences and proofs.

    With no disrespect to Shaykh Yasir Qadhi, I think he has judged it from his inexperience on the matter. Until he sits with a shaykh of tasawuf with due sincerity to actually learn what its about from the horse's mouth, it's going to bounce off him. The relationship of bayah isn't something that can be read from a book and understood fully. It's something that's transferred from person to person. Hard to describe but once you sit with someone, only then you can fully appreciate it (you can do this without even needing to give bay'ah). Shaykh Yasir is not the only shaykh out there and nor is he infallible in his judgement.

    To summarize, there are in the present day and age no organized Sufi tariqahs that are error-free. The least problem that one finds in all of them, without exception, are innovations in their acts of worship.
    I gave bay'ah to a shaykh and was asked to do the following:

    1. Live life as though I have an awareness of Allah. I.e. imagine Allah day in day out, with every action, lying, sitting, walking etc.
    2. Recite as much of the Quran as possible per day
    3. Do istighfar at least 200 times
    4. Send salawat upon Prophet Sallalahu Alaihe Wassalam at least 200 times
    5. Recite ayatul kursi after fardh salah once along with one tasbih Fatima (33 subhanAllah, 33 Alhamdulilah, 34 Allahu Akbar)
    6. Before sleeping, reflect on the actions of the day and feel regret over the sins etc
    7. Sit in muraqaba for 15 minutes at least. This means to sit and contemplate Allah. Contemplate the blessings of Allah coming into my heart while my heart is remembering Allah.

    Nothing else. No grave worshipping. No calling out to the shaykh for help. Can you say there is anything wrong in doing any of the above?

    It is my understanding that such close devotion and trust to the words of another human can only be reserved for our Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam), as only he is infallible with regards to the message of Islam. All other scholars and teachers after him are not free of error, so how can we make such a pledge to follow every word of theirs without question, whether in matters of self reformation or others?
    When I said without question, that was referring to the times when they ask you to pray or do something with regards to your reformation (e.g. the above listed actions). There is nothing wrong in that if what they say doesn't go against the sharia. Even in your relationship with your own parents. You are obliged to do what they say as long as it's not haram. In the case that you are asked to do something wrong, you have a duty to leave, withdraw yourself and break any pledge you may have.

    On the subject of the bay'ah - it's kind of like signing up on this forum. We are an Islamic community here - before being allowed into this community we had to 'give an oath' that we would follow the rules - is there any precedent of this from Quran and Sunnah that one can only enter a community of Muslims after having given an oath? Don't believe so, from my knowledge. Does that make it a bidah?

    As I mentioned in my first post, scholars are inheritors of Prophets. This is mentioned in hadith. This statement by the Prophet sallalahualaihewassalam is a certificate for scholars to show that they are capable enough to guide people. Allah says to ask those who know, when you know not. If a person doesn't know how to reform his character and asks a shaykh for continuous advice under his tutelage, I see no problem with that.

    We also know the hadith that says if a person performs the obligatory but on top of that does a lot of optional worship, Allah loves that person until he becomes the eyes with which he sees, ears with which he hears, hands with which he grasps, foot with which he walks and when he requests something, Allah readily grants it to him - if there is a proper shaykh who has been doing a lot of optional worship for many years (e.g. the stuff in the list above and more), is it not a good thing to look to him for guidance and dua when Allah has guaranteed that he will accept the dua of such a person? I see nothing but benefit for us in that.

    With specific regards to placing one's trust in another's ability to guide and correct the condition of one's heart, I found the following verses from the Qur'an pertinent:
    Allah says he will also provide for us, but that doesn't preclude us from taking the means to seek provision. In the same way, asking a shaykh for guidance in all spiritual matters is a method used to find guidance and I would argue that it is Allah who would guide a sincere person to the shaykh in the first place, which would agree perfectly with the first verse you quoted.

    At the end of the day, my intention in this thread is not to shove tasawuf/sufism upon everyone. I'm not here to convince anyone. It's simply to provide some kind of perspective based on my measly knowledge of it because there are a lot of misconceptions.

    My sincere advice is to research properly without bias and without blindly taking the word of someone who says it is wrong and if you have the opportunity to sit with some actual pious shaykh, then ask him for evidence and seek to understand rather than approach it with the mentality of refutation to start with.

    I'm done here.

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    MashaAllah thank you for the informative responses brothers. May it be of benefit to threadstarter and anyone who reads

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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Assalaamu Alaykum,

    Jazakallaahu khayran brother Alpha Dude for your informative reply.

    Shaykh Yasir did mention it was a bid'ah, yes, but he also gave a reason. I thought it was slightly unfair of you to label this as blind following when in actual fact a clear reason was given. His point about the bay'ah in this context not being required by any 'famous scholars of fiqh, hadeeth, tafseer, etc of the first three generations (or even afterwards)' was a strong point as far as evidences and proofs are concerned, especially when you said that bay'ah is given with the intention of fulfiling a Sunnah yet gave no evidence to substantiate this. As we know, the Companions, may Allaah (swt) be pleased with them all, were the best scholars and inheritors of the Prophets. They had the most pious hearts and were the most rightly guided and we have to always return to their example and practice in order to understand the Sunnah. Yet as they passed their knowledge and reformed the generations after them, did anyone from these early generations ever require the taking of bay'ah? If not, then it is a strong reason not to be in favour of the bay'ah. It cannot simply be put down to a case of inexperience or not meeting a Sufi Shaykh in person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude View Post
    Nothing else. No grave worshipping. No calling out to the shaykh for help. Can you say there is anything wrong in doing any of the above?
    No, I can't. But I don't understand why a person needs to give bay'ah for doing it.

    When I said without question, that was referring to the times when they ask you to pray or do something with regards to your reformation (e.g. the above listed actions). There is nothing wrong in that if what they say doesn't go against the sharia. Even in your relationship with your own parents. You are obliged to do what they say as long as it's not haram. In the case that you are asked to do something wrong, you have a duty to leave, withdraw yourself and break any pledge you may have.
    The relationship with one's parents is one that Allaah (swt) has decreed for everyone. But the bay'ah towards one's Shaykh is a relationship they have obligated upon themselves, and thus the discussion is why the need to do that in the first place.

    On the subject of the bay'ah - it's kind of like signing up on this forum. We are an Islamic community here - before being allowed into this community we had to 'give an oath' that we would follow the rules - is there any precedent of this from Quran and Sunnah that one can only enter a community of Muslims after having given an oath? Don't believe so, from my knowledge. Does that make it a bidah?
    I suppose this goes back to the definition of bid'ah. Is the mere act of registering on a forum done so as an act of worship? Moreover I am not sure we can equate the forum rules to giving an oath - they are more like guidelines and people register without even reading them. Neither are we claiming to list them as an implementation of the Sunnah.

    If a person doesn't know how to reform his character and asks a shaykh for continuous advice under his tutelage, I see no problem with that.
    From what has been mentioned, bay'ah is not the same as continuous advice under one's tutelage, as this definition can be applied to all students learning from their teachers.

    We also know the hadith that says if a person performs the obligatory but on top of that does a lot of optional worship, Allah loves that person until he becomes the eyes with which he sees, ears with which he hears, hands with which he grasps, foot with which he walks and when he requests something, Allah readily grants it to him - if there is a proper shaykh who has been doing a lot of optional worship for many years (e.g. the stuff in the list above and more), is it not a good thing to look to him for guidance and dua when Allah has guaranteed that he will accept the dua of such a person? I see nothing but benefit for us in that.
    But again there is nothing in this to support the bay'ah. Students of knowledge can remain with their teachers for years and receive these benefits, but no bay'ah need be involved.

    Allah says he will also provide for us, but that doesn't preclude us from taking the means to seek provision. In the same way, asking a shaykh for guidance in all spiritual matters is a method used to find guidance and I would argue that it is Allah who would guide a sincere person to the shaykh in the first place, which would agree perfectly with the first verse you quoted.
    Yes, scholars can give us guidance in terms of showing us the way. But no human has the power to put that guidance into our hearts. I am sure you agree with this point. It is just the way it was worded in your post ('You are placing your trust in him. In his ability to guide and correct the condition of your heart'). At all times our trust is upon Allaah (swt) alone, and going to the scholar could be considered a means, much like taking a medicine for an illness whilst believing the cure is solely from Allaah (swt) and not the medicine.

    At the end of the day, my intention in this thread is not to shove tasawuf/sufism upon everyone. I'm not here to convince anyone. It's simply to provide some kind of perspective based on my measly knowledge of it because there are a lot of misconceptions.
    That's understandable. Ultimately we will all be accountable for our own actions and must act according to what we believe is closest to the truth. You are sharing your views and I am sharing mine. Perhaps in the end we may have to agree to disagree on this, but maybe we will have a better understanding of the other's reasons for making their choice.

    May Allaah (swt) forgive us if we said anything wrong.





  17. #17
    Assalamu alaykum Array Snowflake's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?




    Perhaps giving bay'ah to a scholar doesn't fall under bid'ah if it is seen as a commitment agreement that benefits the student by making him feel he has to honour and maintain the relationship between himself and his teacher and implement the knowledge gained through him. Not feeling committed to one teacher could result in a student from flitting from scholar to scholar and becoming more lost and confused in the process.

    This type of bay'ah doesn't appear to have the same connotations as giving bay'ah to the Prophet (pbuh) Ruler/Commander in battle, which would be more harmful for the people, and the one who gave bay'ah if he were to deflect from it. And Allah knows best.





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    Full Member Array joyous fairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    Assalam alaykum..

    This is how I see it:

    If giving bayah is going to benefit someone and bring them closer to Allah (swt) why shouldn't it be allowed.

    I am quite a lazy person and i need guidance on what to read, how to purify myself and increase my worship so i become a better Muslim and if giving bayah is what will help me achieve that, then why not? Surely something that will make me do things that i would otherwise put aside can only be a good thing?

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    Slave of Allaah Array Muhammad's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?





    Allaah (swt) knows best. It's worth bearing in mind that it is not an obligation on a Muslim to pledge his allegiance to a given Shaykh or to affiliate with him. If he does not do any of this, he is not sinful and this does not affect his faith. Rather, one could be sinful if such allegiance to a Shaykh is done like the way the innovators do it. So at the very least please ensure that the reasons for which you are doing it, and the person you pledge with, are sound and according to the Qur'an and Sunnah. Nowadays there are countless speakers and callers to Islam, and especially over the internet, it can be very difficult to know who to take knowledge from, let alone give bay'ah to. So if a person wants to go down this route, upon them is to do the necessary research and take appropriate precautions.






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    Soldier Through It! Array جوري's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are these Muslims doing?


    For what it is worth I have one cousin who has done this sort of thing, she now wears bizarre beads to ward off 'evil eye' constantly has incense in her house, and has very unusual hand greetings. When I saw her in Ramadan I was flabbergasted, she greeted me with words I'd never heard the prophet or sahabas use and wouldn't shake hands as is customary but put both hands together and touched mine three times. I felt very uncomfortable being a part of that.
    I don't have a favorable view of sufis nor have I a favorable view of anyone that innovates anything from the ways of the salaf, unadulterated Islam is very simple that I find any further additives or preservatives difficult to swallow.

    I didn't wish to partake in this thread because there are some people here I think very highly of that have a different point of view but I am speaking of my experience with one and the others that I am not related to were not any better.. so sob7an Allah.. I am sure they view me poorly but I'll chance it than join their liege.





    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.اتبع طرق الهدى ولا يضرك قلة السالكين
    وإياك وطرق الضلالة ولا تغتر بكثرة الهالكين





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