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    Thread: Baptism

    1. #1
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      Baptism


      I am curious about Muslims view of baptism. What does the Koran have to say about it? I noticed that John the baptist is also mentioned and that Muslims believe in him too. How do Muslims do the baptism? Any info much appreciated. thanks.

    2. #2
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
      I am curious about Muslims view of baptism. What does the Koran have to say about it?
      It should be noted that the child’s being baptized does not actually make him a Christian, rather he is a Muslim who follows the religion of his Muslim father, and he cannot become a Christian unless he understands Christianity and chooses it for himself. As for his baptism, he has no choice in the matter, and it does not affect the religion which Allaah created in him, which is Islam.
      Try by all means to protect this child and prevent him being taught Christian teachings. Remember that you are responsible for him and that the worst neglect and betrayal of this trust would be to leave him disbelieving in Allaah.
      We ask Allaah to protect you and your offspring and to divert evil away from them.

      Taken from:
      http://islamqa.info/en/107462


      Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
      How do Muslims do the baptism?
      Question: Is there a baptism in Islam? Was being baptized ever done in Islam?

      Answer: In the Name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful Assalamu alaikum,Thank you for your question.

      There is no baptism in Islam in the sense that it exists in the Christian tradition.There are, however, practices that welcome the baby into the community of believers, including the calling of the adhan (call to prayer) and iqama (reminder to stand up to pray) in the ear of the newborn and the aqiqa celebration in which the community gathers to celebrate the birth of the infant and pray for him or her.Adults who embrace Islam are required to state the testification of faith (”There is no god but God and Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the messenger of God”) in front of witnesses. Often, they will take a Muslim name, although this is not required.May Allah reward you,Zaynab Ansari


      Taken from:
      http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/76145


      Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
      I noticed that John the baptist is also mentioned and that Muslims believe in him too.
      Salaam / Peace Be Upon You

      Please visit:
      http://www.soundvision.com/info/jesus/johnprophetyahya.asp and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist#John_in_the_Qur.27an

    3. #3
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      Re: Baptism


      I have no glue to this matter. In my country they are real minority (about 2400 - thanks about information to Wiki). I wonder have I ever met any of them; very possible that I haven´t. I have no idea how they even believe...
      Baptism

      From Occupied Palestine:

      We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




    4. #4
      IB Senior Member Array Futuwwa's Avatar
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      Re: Baptism


      There is no such thing in Islam.

    5. #5
      IB Oldtimer Array MustafaMc's Avatar
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
      I am curious about Muslims view of baptism. What does the Koran have to say about it?
      The Qur'an does not mention baptism.
      I noticed that John the baptist is also mentioned and that Muslims believe in him too.
      Yes, in the Qur'an he is known as Yahya, just like Jesus is 'Isa and Moses is Musa.
      How do Muslims do the baptism? Any info much appreciated. thanks.
      There is no baptism or sprinkling of infants. Upon converting to Islam by stating the testimony of faith, "There is no go except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" one takes a full bath or shower known in Arabic as 'ghusl' which is the same that is done by Muslims after sexual relations between man and wife or wet dream. Which is a ritual act of cleansing.
      2 | Likes glo, ardianto liked this post

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      IB Oldskool Array glo's Avatar
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
      Upon converting to Islam by stating the testimony of faith, "There is no go except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" one takes a full bath or shower known in Arabic as 'ghusl'
      I didn't know that was done after saying Shahadah.

      Certainly the concept of cleansing and purifying runs through both practices - baptism and Shahadah.

      I struggle to see child baptism/Christening as anything more that family and friends making a promise to raise the child in the Christian faith - until it is old enough to make a personal declaration of faith.
      Different denominations have a different view on this.
      Baptism

      Peace
      glo

      Here I stand.
      I can do no other.
      May God help me.
      Amen.

      Come, let us worship and bow down •
      and kneel before the Lord our Maker

      [Psalm 95]


    7. #7
      Full Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
      The Qur'an does not mention baptism.
      Yes it does. I found this while looking for more information on the subject 2:138. "(Receive) the baptism of Allah and who is better than Allah in baptizing? And Him do we worship."

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      Re: Baptism


      Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow) - سورة البقرة
      2:138

      Sahih International
      [And say, "Ours is] the religion of Allah . And who is better than Allah in [ordaining] religion? And we are worshippers of Him."

      Baptism

      From Occupied Palestine:

      We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




    9. #9
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
      Yes it does. I found this while looking for more information on the subject 2:138. "(Receive) the baptism of Allah and who is better than Allah in baptizing? And Him do we worship."
      EPIC FAIL!!

      Translation taken from Anti Muslims site (answering-islam)

      http://www.*********************/Qur...r/002_138.html

      For next time,use quran.com
      Baptism



    10. #10
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by Signor View Post
      EPIC FAIL!!
      What do you mean epic fail? I have a Koran translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. And he also translates it as follows: (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship.

      There are many other translations of this verse. Who can say whose translation is better or correct? How can you know?

    11. #11
      IB Oldskool Array glo's Avatar
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      Re: Baptism


      I found four translations in English side by side:

      002.138
      Sibghata Allahi waman ahsanu mina Allahi sibghatan wanahnu lahu AAabidoona
      YUSUFALI: (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship.
      PICKTHAL: (We take our) colour from Allah, and who is better than Allah at colouring. We are His worshippers.
      SHAKIR: (Receive) the baptism of Allah, and who is better than Allah in baptising? and Him do we serve.
      KHALIFA: Such is GOD's system, and whose system is better than GOD's? "Him alone we worship."

      Another one I read referred to 'being dyed' by Allah.
      Certainly looks like this is a kind of blessing performed directly by Allah. (I am reminded by the image of 'being baptised in God's spirit' ...) Nothing to do with a human ritual.
      (Of course I don't know and I am speaking as a non-Muslim here. Does anybody more knowledgeable want to comment?)

      http://www.universalunity.net/quran4/002.qmt.html
      1 | Likes loveofgod liked this post
      Baptism

      Peace
      glo

      Here I stand.
      I can do no other.
      May God help me.
      Amen.

      Come, let us worship and bow down •
      and kneel before the Lord our Maker

      [Psalm 95]


    12. #12
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
      The Qur'an does not mention baptism.Yes, in the Qur'an he is known as Yahya, just like Jesus is 'Isa and Moses is Musa. There is no baptism or sprinkling of infants. Upon converting to Islam by stating the testimony of faith, "There is no go except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" one takes a full bath or shower known in Arabic as 'ghusl' which is the same that is done by Muslims after sexual relations between man and wife or wet dream. Which is a ritual act of cleansing.
      As far as I know when you do accept Islam you've to take a bath, as well before every prayer we make ablution .. I wouldn't call it baptism but certainly cleansing before any religious act is important and also symbolic of purity.
      3 | Likes MustafaMc, glo, YusufNoor liked this post
      Baptism

      Text without context is pretext
      If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
      What do you mean epic fail? I have a Koran translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. And he also translates it as follows: (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship.

      There are many other translations of this verse. Who can say whose translation is better or correct? How can you know?
      Abdel Haleem: [Our life] takes its color from God and who gives a better color than God? It is Him we worship.

      Gracious Qur'an - Ahmad Hammad: Say O believers: It is the hue of God alone that is upon our religion. And who is there better than God to endue the human soul with the true hue of His religion! Thus to Him alone we do solemnly devote all of our worship.

      Majestic Qur'an: The coloring of Allah; and whose coloring is better than Allah's alone? He it is that we worship.

      Saheeh International: And say ours is the religion of Allah. And who is better than Allah in [ordaining] religion? And we are worshipers of Him.

      Pickthall: (We take our) colour from Allah, and who is better than Allah at colouring. We are His worshippers.

      In the dictionary of the Qur'an: Sabagha: To dye, colour, baptize, dip, immerse, hue, assume the attribute, mode mature, code of law, religion ... According to the Arabic usage, sometimes when it is intended strongly to induce a person to do a certain thing the verb is omitted, as in 2:138 and only the object is mentioned. Therefore in the translation of that verse, one must add such verb as khudhu - assume, or adapt.

      This indicates the word translated as "baptism" does not mean a ritual bath or immersion, but rather taking on a hue, coloring, code of law, or religion. The context of the verse does NOT indicate that Yusuf Ali was wise in choosing to use 'baptism' in this ayat due to the ceremonial connotation it conveys to Christians and the ambiguity in meaning it conveys to others.
      4 | Likes glo, جوري, Iceee, loveofgod liked this post

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      Re: Baptism


      This piece is interesting to understand Sibghah

      "Our Sibghah is the Sibghah of Allah and which Sibghah can be better than Allah's? And we are His worshippers" (Surah Baqarah v. 138)

      Have you seen shopkeepers dieing ladies scarves in various colors? The scarf containing original colors comes out with the color of the die. So what is the sibghah (color) of Allah? It is tawheed (Islamic monotheism)! The similitude of a non-Muslim entering Islam is like dieing his multicolored mind and heart with principles of tawheed.

      Islamic theology is an integrated whole in which different parts interact with each other. One principle reinforces the other to give an holistic perspective of life. This reinforced version of Islamic philosophy provides a Mumin with the wisdom to understand different things from one perspective (Reality). When someone submits to Allah, one is bound to enter the deen completely. All fabric of his thought must be dyed with the Sibghah of Allah. No thread can be left untouched. He is not supposed to keep a multi-patched outlook to life. Islam should penetrate all aspects of his life; be it personal, family, community, national, international, economic, educational, etc. Influences from other philosophies which contradict reality has no place in his perspective.
      1 | Likes MustafaMc liked this post
      Baptism



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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by Signor View Post
      When someone submits to Allah, one is bound to enter the deen completely. All fabric of his thought must be dyed with the Sibghah of Allah. No thread can be left untouched.
      The meaning given by your quote is consistent with most translations of 2:138 into English. What is the source? Although I don't speak Arabic, it is also consistent with what I quoted from the dictionary.

      The word baptize from a Christian perspective can also be seen to be consistent with this meaning in that some see the act of baptism as a transforming event with one being immersed under the water as a sinner which is symbolic of his dying to his worldly self and then coming up as a new person with his slate wiped clean to live a new life as a sanctified Christian. The term 'Born Again Christian' comes to mind. They often quote Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." I was a member of the Church of Christ for a few years and they use this verse to indicate that one's intention in being baptized should be for the remission of his sins and without that intention one's baptism is invalid.

    16. #16
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
      In the dictionary of the Qur'an: Sabagha: To dye, colour, baptize, dip, immerse, hue, assume the attribute, mode mature, code of law, religion ... According to the Arabic usage, sometimes when it is intended strongly to induce a person to do a certain thing the verb is omitted, as in 2:138 and only the object is mentioned. Therefore in the translation of that verse, one must add such verb as khudhu - assume, or adapt.
      This is what I was looking for. I can better understand the meaning of baptism as used by the translators now. Baptism is an act that washes away a person's sins. It's an act of purification. When John the Baptist baptized people God washed away all their sins. Similarly when God baptizes people He washes away their sins and who can better wash away sins better than God? This is what I think it means.
      1 | Likes glo liked this post

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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
      The meaning given by your quote is consistent with most translations of 2:138 into English. What is the source? Although I don't speak Arabic, it is also consistent with what I quoted from the dictionary.
      I deliberately didn't quoted the source because its only from reflections from a Muslim Brother,you can find it here

      Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
      Similarly when God baptizes people He washes away their sins and who can better wash away sins better than God?
      Islam is based on the concept that all humans are born sinless and they attain sins during their lives, and that all sins can be forgiven except giving worship to other gods but Allah or with Allah/God.

      Just for the Interest of Br Mustafa

      The root of the word "Sibghah" actually means "Colour, dye, or a colour which is adopted on to something" So when it says in the translation that Sibghah means Religion, it takes on the meaning of the 'religion that when we take it on, it literally changes us as taking on another colour would'. That when people are given or adopt the religion of Islam they are cloaked in that which Allah (Subahanna wa tallah) has given them so that they will appear different and reflect it on others. And just like dye, it won't come off-- When we accept Islam completely it won't come off. Islam becomes our identity and we cannot remove ourselves from it.
      Alongside with this beautiful poem

      The oceans dried up
      Not one but two,
      But the words of my Lord written were few,
      Each drop of divine ink
      Each letter, each word
      Their unchartered depths few have explored
      “Sibghtullah”
      The Colors of Allah
      Dye yourself in them and attain falah.
      The hues of humility
      The perfect tints of gratitude
      The gait, the speech, the right attitude
      In the style
      Of the Nabi (saws) and the blessed few
      They strive but they smile as if Jannah they view
      Intense in their devotion
      Their obedience glows
      In the darkest of nights spent bowed low
      Not like chameleons
      They change their colors, or discard
      When the going gets tough, or the opposition hard
      Their deen dyed deep
      Not washed away
      By the changing tides of culture, or fashion’s sway
      Awash in divine recitation
      They persist and depend
      On none
      But the One
      At peace in the knowledge
      That blessed they are
      To be drenched in
      ‘Sibghatullah’
      The Colors of Allah
      3 | Likes MustafaMc, glo, sister herb liked this post
      Baptism



    18. #18
      IB Oldtimer Array MustafaMc's Avatar
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      Re: Baptism


      Assalamu alaikum, Brother Signor, I am left absolutely speechless by the poem you quoted. Ma shaa Allah it is indeed beautiful!
      1 | Likes Signor liked this post

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      Full Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by Signor View Post
      Islam is based on the concept that all humans are born sinless and they attain sins during their lives, and that all sins can be forgiven except giving worship to other gods but Allah or with Allah/God.
      Yes but when human beings grow up they become sinners. Someone in this thread mentioned the washing away of sins in Islam when taking a bath. Makes me think that the concept of purification or baptism is also found in Islam.
      1 | Likes glo liked this post

    20. #20
      Full Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
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      Re: Baptism


      Quote Originally Posted by Signor View Post
      At peace in the knowledge
      That blessed they are
      To be drenched in
      ‘Sibghatullah’
      The Colors of Allah
      Drenched in Sibghatullah sounds similar to being immersed in water or getting wet. So the translators weren't wrong in using the words "baptism of God" to describe sibghatullah.

     

     
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