Quran Memorization for Kids
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26

Thread: Baptism

  1. #1
    Limited Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    46
    Threads
    6
    Reputation
    184
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Baptism


    I am curious about Muslims view of baptism. What does the Koran have to say about it? I noticed that John the baptist is also mentioned and that Muslims believe in him too. How do Muslims do the baptism? Any info much appreciated. thanks.

  2. #2
    IB Senior Member Array Iceee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    848
    Threads
    57
    Reputation
    2662
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
    I am curious about Muslims view of baptism. What does the Koran have to say about it?
    It should be noted that the child’s being baptized does not actually make him a Christian, rather he is a Muslim who follows the religion of his Muslim father, and he cannot become a Christian unless he understands Christianity and chooses it for himself. As for his baptism, he has no choice in the matter, and it does not affect the religion which Allaah created in him, which is Islam.
    Try by all means to protect this child and prevent him being taught Christian teachings. Remember that you are responsible for him and that the worst neglect and betrayal of this trust would be to leave him disbelieving in Allaah.
    We ask Allaah to protect you and your offspring and to divert evil away from them.

    Taken from:
    http://islamqa.info/en/107462


    Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
    How do Muslims do the baptism?
    Question: Is there a baptism in Islam? Was being baptized ever done in Islam?

    Answer: In the Name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful Assalamu alaikum,Thank you for your question.

    There is no baptism in Islam in the sense that it exists in the Christian tradition.There are, however, practices that welcome the baby into the community of believers, including the calling of the adhan (call to prayer) and iqama (reminder to stand up to pray) in the ear of the newborn and the aqiqa celebration in which the community gathers to celebrate the birth of the infant and pray for him or her.Adults who embrace Islam are required to state the testification of faith (”There is no god but God and Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the messenger of God”) in front of witnesses. Often, they will take a Muslim name, although this is not required.May Allah reward you,Zaynab Ansari


    Taken from:
    http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/76145


    Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
    I noticed that John the baptist is also mentioned and that Muslims believe in him too.
    Salaam / Peace Be Upon You

    Please visit:
    http://www.soundvision.com/info/jesus/johnprophetyahya.asp and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist#John_in_the_Qur.27an

  3. #3
    IB Oldtimer Array sister herb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,397
    Threads
    289
    Reputation
    28294
    Rep Power
    67

    Default Re: Baptism


    I have no glue to this matter. In my country they are real minority (about 2400 - thanks about information to Wiki). I wonder have I ever met any of them; very possible that I haven´t. I have no idea how they even believe...


    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




  4. #4
    IB Senior Member Array Futuwwa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    753
    Threads
    8
    Reputation
    3207
    Rep Power
    23

    Default Re: Baptism


    There is no such thing in Islam.

  5. #5
    Moderator Array MustafaMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Mississippi, USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,970
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    40352
    Rep Power
    76

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
    I am curious about Muslims view of baptism. What does the Koran have to say about it?
    The Qur'an does not mention baptism.
    I noticed that John the baptist is also mentioned and that Muslims believe in him too.
    Yes, in the Qur'an he is known as Yahya, just like Jesus is 'Isa and Moses is Musa.
    How do Muslims do the baptism? Any info much appreciated. thanks.
    There is no baptism or sprinkling of infants. Upon converting to Islam by stating the testimony of faith, "There is no go except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" one takes a full bath or shower known in Arabic as 'ghusl' which is the same that is done by Muslims after sexual relations between man and wife or wet dream. Which is a ritual act of cleansing.

  6. #6
    hier stehe ich Array glo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    8,389
    Threads
    427
    Reputation
    61605
    Rep Power
    90

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    Upon converting to Islam by stating the testimony of faith, "There is no go except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" one takes a full bath or shower known in Arabic as 'ghusl'
    I didn't know that was done after saying Shahadah.

    Certainly the concept of cleansing and purifying runs through both practices - baptism and Shahadah.

    I struggle to see child baptism/Christening as anything more that family and friends making a promise to raise the child in the Christian faith - until it is old enough to make a personal declaration of faith.
    Different denominations have a different view on this.


    Peace
    glo

    Here I stand.
    I can do no other.
    May God help me.
    Amen.

    Come, let us worship and bow down •
    and kneel before the Lord our Maker

    [Psalm 95]


  7. #7
    Limited Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    46
    Threads
    6
    Reputation
    184
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    The Qur'an does not mention baptism.
    Yes it does. I found this while looking for more information on the subject 2:138. "(Receive) the baptism of Allah and who is better than Allah in baptizing? And Him do we worship."

  8. #8
    IB Oldtimer Array sister herb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    4,397
    Threads
    289
    Reputation
    28294
    Rep Power
    67

    Default Re: Baptism


    Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow) - سورة البقرة
    2:138

    Sahih International
    [And say, "Ours is] the religion of Allah . And who is better than Allah in [ordaining] religion? And we are worshippers of Him."



    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




  9. #9
    IB Senior Member Array Signor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    987
    Threads
    78
    Reputation
    7912
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
    Yes it does. I found this while looking for more information on the subject 2:138. "(Receive) the baptism of Allah and who is better than Allah in baptizing? And Him do we worship."
    EPIC FAIL!!

    Translation taken from Anti Muslims site (answering-islam)

    http://www.*********************/Qur...r/002_138.html

    For next time,use quran.com


    O Allah, I seek refuge in You,
    from misleading or being misled
    or oppressing or being oppressed,
    from being ignorant or bearing the result of ignorance.



  10. #10
    Limited Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    46
    Threads
    6
    Reputation
    184
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by Signor View Post
    EPIC FAIL!!
    What do you mean epic fail? I have a Koran translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. And he also translates it as follows: (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship.

    There are many other translations of this verse. Who can say whose translation is better or correct? How can you know?

  11. #11
    hier stehe ich Array glo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    8,389
    Threads
    427
    Reputation
    61605
    Rep Power
    90

    Default Re: Baptism


    I found four translations in English side by side:

    002.138
    Sibghata Allahi waman ahsanu mina Allahi sibghatan wanahnu lahu AAabidoona
    YUSUFALI: (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship.
    PICKTHAL: (We take our) colour from Allah, and who is better than Allah at colouring. We are His worshippers.
    SHAKIR: (Receive) the baptism of Allah, and who is better than Allah in baptising? and Him do we serve.
    KHALIFA: Such is GOD's system, and whose system is better than GOD's? "Him alone we worship."

    Another one I read referred to 'being dyed' by Allah.
    Certainly looks like this is a kind of blessing performed directly by Allah. (I am reminded by the image of 'being baptised in God's spirit' ...) Nothing to do with a human ritual.
    (Of course I don't know and I am speaking as a non-Muslim here. Does anybody more knowledgeable want to comment?)

    http://www.universalunity.net/quran4/002.qmt.html


    Peace
    glo

    Here I stand.
    I can do no other.
    May God help me.
    Amen.

    Come, let us worship and bow down •
    and kneel before the Lord our Maker

    [Psalm 95]


  12. #12
    Soldier Through It! Array جوري's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    من ارض الكنانة
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    27,131
    Threads
    1280
    Reputation
    244555
    Rep Power
    199

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    The Qur'an does not mention baptism.Yes, in the Qur'an he is known as Yahya, just like Jesus is 'Isa and Moses is Musa. There is no baptism or sprinkling of infants. Upon converting to Islam by stating the testimony of faith, "There is no go except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah" one takes a full bath or shower known in Arabic as 'ghusl' which is the same that is done by Muslims after sexual relations between man and wife or wet dream. Which is a ritual act of cleansing.
    As far as I know when you do accept Islam you've to take a bath, as well before every prayer we make ablution .. I wouldn't call it baptism but certainly cleansing before any religious act is important and also symbolic of purity.




    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.اتبع طرق الهدى ولا يضرك قلة السالكين
    وإياك وطرق الضلالة ولا تغتر بكثرة الهالكين





  13. #13
    Moderator Array MustafaMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Mississippi, USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,970
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    40352
    Rep Power
    76

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
    What do you mean epic fail? I have a Koran translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. And he also translates it as follows: (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship.

    There are many other translations of this verse. Who can say whose translation is better or correct? How can you know?
    Abdel Haleem: [Our life] takes its color from God and who gives a better color than God? It is Him we worship.

    Gracious Qur'an - Ahmad Hammad: Say O believers: It is the hue of God alone that is upon our religion. And who is there better than God to endue the human soul with the true hue of His religion! Thus to Him alone we do solemnly devote all of our worship.

    Majestic Qur'an: The coloring of Allah; and whose coloring is better than Allah's alone? He it is that we worship.

    Saheeh International: And say ours is the religion of Allah. And who is better than Allah in [ordaining] religion? And we are worshipers of Him.

    Pickthall: (We take our) colour from Allah, and who is better than Allah at colouring. We are His worshippers.

    In the dictionary of the Qur'an: Sabagha: To dye, colour, baptize, dip, immerse, hue, assume the attribute, mode mature, code of law, religion ... According to the Arabic usage, sometimes when it is intended strongly to induce a person to do a certain thing the verb is omitted, as in 2:138 and only the object is mentioned. Therefore in the translation of that verse, one must add such verb as khudhu - assume, or adapt.

    This indicates the word translated as "baptism" does not mean a ritual bath or immersion, but rather taking on a hue, coloring, code of law, or religion. The context of the verse does NOT indicate that Yusuf Ali was wise in choosing to use 'baptism' in this ayat due to the ceremonial connotation it conveys to Christians and the ambiguity in meaning it conveys to others.

  14. #14
    IB Senior Member Array Signor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    987
    Threads
    78
    Reputation
    7912
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: Baptism


    This piece is interesting to understand Sibghah

    "Our Sibghah is the Sibghah of Allah and which Sibghah can be better than Allah's? And we are His worshippers" (Surah Baqarah v. 138)

    Have you seen shopkeepers dieing ladies scarves in various colors? The scarf containing original colors comes out with the color of the die. So what is the sibghah (color) of Allah? It is tawheed (Islamic monotheism)! The similitude of a non-Muslim entering Islam is like dieing his multicolored mind and heart with principles of tawheed.

    Islamic theology is an integrated whole in which different parts interact with each other. One principle reinforces the other to give an holistic perspective of life. This reinforced version of Islamic philosophy provides a Mumin with the wisdom to understand different things from one perspective (Reality). When someone submits to Allah, one is bound to enter the deen completely. All fabric of his thought must be dyed with the Sibghah of Allah. No thread can be left untouched. He is not supposed to keep a multi-patched outlook to life. Islam should penetrate all aspects of his life; be it personal, family, community, national, international, economic, educational, etc. Influences from other philosophies which contradict reality has no place in his perspective.


    O Allah, I seek refuge in You,
    from misleading or being misled
    or oppressing or being oppressed,
    from being ignorant or bearing the result of ignorance.



  15. #15
    Moderator Array MustafaMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Mississippi, USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,970
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    40352
    Rep Power
    76

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by Signor View Post
    When someone submits to Allah, one is bound to enter the deen completely. All fabric of his thought must be dyed with the Sibghah of Allah. No thread can be left untouched.
    The meaning given by your quote is consistent with most translations of 2:138 into English. What is the source? Although I don't speak Arabic, it is also consistent with what I quoted from the dictionary.

    The word baptize from a Christian perspective can also be seen to be consistent with this meaning in that some see the act of baptism as a transforming event with one being immersed under the water as a sinner which is symbolic of his dying to his worldly self and then coming up as a new person with his slate wiped clean to live a new life as a sanctified Christian. The term 'Born Again Christian' comes to mind. They often quote Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." I was a member of the Church of Christ for a few years and they use this verse to indicate that one's intention in being baptized should be for the remission of his sins and without that intention one's baptism is invalid.

  16. #16
    Limited Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    46
    Threads
    6
    Reputation
    184
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    In the dictionary of the Qur'an: Sabagha: To dye, colour, baptize, dip, immerse, hue, assume the attribute, mode mature, code of law, religion ... According to the Arabic usage, sometimes when it is intended strongly to induce a person to do a certain thing the verb is omitted, as in 2:138 and only the object is mentioned. Therefore in the translation of that verse, one must add such verb as khudhu - assume, or adapt.
    This is what I was looking for. I can better understand the meaning of baptism as used by the translators now. Baptism is an act that washes away a person's sins. It's an act of purification. When John the Baptist baptized people God washed away all their sins. Similarly when God baptizes people He washes away their sins and who can better wash away sins better than God? This is what I think it means.

  17. #17
    IB Senior Member Array Signor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    987
    Threads
    78
    Reputation
    7912
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    The meaning given by your quote is consistent with most translations of 2:138 into English. What is the source? Although I don't speak Arabic, it is also consistent with what I quoted from the dictionary.
    I deliberately didn't quoted the source because its only from reflections from a Muslim Brother,you can find it here

    Quote Originally Posted by loveofgod View Post
    Similarly when God baptizes people He washes away their sins and who can better wash away sins better than God?
    Islam is based on the concept that all humans are born sinless and they attain sins during their lives, and that all sins can be forgiven except giving worship to other gods but Allah or with Allah/God.

    Just for the Interest of Br Mustafa

    The root of the word "Sibghah" actually means "Colour, dye, or a colour which is adopted on to something" So when it says in the translation that Sibghah means Religion, it takes on the meaning of the 'religion that when we take it on, it literally changes us as taking on another colour would'. That when people are given or adopt the religion of Islam they are cloaked in that which Allah (Subahanna wa tallah) has given them so that they will appear different and reflect it on others. And just like dye, it won't come off-- When we accept Islam completely it won't come off. Islam becomes our identity and we cannot remove ourselves from it.
    Alongside with this beautiful poem

    The oceans dried up
    Not one but two,
    But the words of my Lord written were few,
    Each drop of divine ink
    Each letter, each word
    Their unchartered depths few have explored
    “Sibghtullah”
    The Colors of Allah
    Dye yourself in them and attain falah.
    The hues of humility
    The perfect tints of gratitude
    The gait, the speech, the right attitude
    In the style
    Of the Nabi (saws) and the blessed few
    They strive but they smile as if Jannah they view
    Intense in their devotion
    Their obedience glows
    In the darkest of nights spent bowed low
    Not like chameleons
    They change their colors, or discard
    When the going gets tough, or the opposition hard
    Their deen dyed deep
    Not washed away
    By the changing tides of culture, or fashion’s sway
    Awash in divine recitation
    They persist and depend
    On none
    But the One
    At peace in the knowledge
    That blessed they are
    To be drenched in
    ‘Sibghatullah’
    The Colors of Allah


    O Allah, I seek refuge in You,
    from misleading or being misled
    or oppressing or being oppressed,
    from being ignorant or bearing the result of ignorance.



  18. #18
    Moderator Array MustafaMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Mississippi, USA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,970
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    40352
    Rep Power
    76

    Default Re: Baptism


    Assalamu alaikum, Brother Signor, I am left absolutely speechless by the poem you quoted. Ma shaa Allah it is indeed beautiful!

  19. #19
    Limited Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    46
    Threads
    6
    Reputation
    184
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by Signor View Post
    Islam is based on the concept that all humans are born sinless and they attain sins during their lives, and that all sins can be forgiven except giving worship to other gods but Allah or with Allah/God.
    Yes but when human beings grow up they become sinners. Someone in this thread mentioned the washing away of sins in Islam when taking a bath. Makes me think that the concept of purification or baptism is also found in Islam.

  20. #20
    Limited Member Array loveofgod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    46
    Threads
    6
    Reputation
    184
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Baptism


    Quote Originally Posted by Signor View Post
    At peace in the knowledge
    That blessed they are
    To be drenched in
    ‘Sibghatullah’
    The Colors of Allah
    Drenched in Sibghatullah sounds similar to being immersed in water or getting wet. So the translators weren't wrong in using the words "baptism of God" to describe sibghatullah.

Closed Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BACK TO TOP