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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 114 Reputation: 37 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Gender: Way of Life: Christian | The Jewish sacrificial system was but imperfect representation of the work of Christ. Jesus was crucified by Roman soldiers , true, but it was the High Priest who made this arrangement and it was Jesus who freely gave up his own life. Joh 11:49 But a certain one of them, Caiaphas being high priest of that year, said to them, You know nothing, Joh 11:50 nor consider that it is profitable for us that one man die for the people, and not all the nation to perish. Joh 11:51 But he did not say this from himself, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was about to die on behalf of the nation, Second, the Tabernacle and Jewish Temple, were but representive of things which exist in the Heavenlies [Exo 25:40, He 8:5 ]. Once Jesus died, he, as our High Priest offered his own blood in the Heavenly Tabernacle for the forgiveness of sins. Heb 9:11 But Christ having appeared as a High Priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, Heb 9:12 nor through the blood of goats and of calves, but through His own blood, He entered once for all into the Holy of Holies, having procured everlasting redemption. Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and goats, and ashes of a heifer sprinkling those having been defiled, sanctifies to the purity of the flesh, Heb 9:14 by how much more the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God), will purify your conscience from dead works, to serve the living God! Jesus death and it redemptive power, was planned in Eternity and considered "a done deal" even before the Earth was created. Thus it is available to all people of all times - Revelation 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast -- all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. (NIV) The Hebrew Bible required that the (sin) sacrifice be without any physical defects or blemishes. This is just a picture that the Lamb of God, would be perfect, free of any sin or moral defects. Lastly, Jesus instituted the New Convenant. While something like the old this convenant offers - 1) Better promises - He 8:7-13 2) A better sanctuary - He 9:1-28 3) A better sacrifice - He 10:1-18 http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/he/he_18.htm |
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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 114 Reputation: 37 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Gender: Way of Life: Christian | At any time, Jesus could have kept himself from being arrested. He says so himself. Mat 26:51 And, behold, one of those with Jesus, stretching out the hand, drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest and took off his ear. Mat 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword shall perish by a sword. Mat 26:53 Or do you think that I am not able now to call on My Father, and He will place beside Me more than twelve legions of angels? Mat 26:54 How then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen this way? Mat 26:55 In that hour, Jesus said to the crowds, Have you come out to take Me with swords and clubs, as against a plunderer? I sat with you daily teaching in the temple, and you did not lay hands on Me. Mat 26:56 But all this is happening that the Scriptures of the prophets may be fulfilled. Then all the disciples ran away, forsaking Him. The reason that Jesus was not arrested in the Temple was that the authorities were too scared to do it. If Jesus was able to heal any sick person, raise the dead to life, what would happen someone tried to arrest him? This couldn't of been a very comforting thought, who knows what would of happened. Judas told the authorites what they needed to know. During the Last Supper, Jesus was talking about his death and giving his life freely. This indicated that Jesus was prepared to die, and wouldn't resist arrest. No worry about fire from Heaven, and people dropping dead and other nasty stuff. The Jewish leadership took this as their golden opportunity to do away with someone who said things they didn't want to hear. >Forsaken? Doesn't sound like a glorious sacrifice. You forget, these were the opening lines to Psalm 22 which described the suffering Jesus underwent in great detail. The Jewish Leaders were too clever for their own good. Jesus was put to death because he claimed to be equal to God. According to Jewish law, he should of been stoned to death, but they pressured the Romans for the most horrific death possible. The Jewish leaders must of been stunned to hear the words to Psalm 22 from Jesus dying lips, for prophecy was occuring before their very eyes, and they played a part in it. http://www.carm.org/questions/why_forsake_me.htm > Moreover, you haven't reconciled the sevre torture Jesus underwent. This is alien to the law. The law was just a shadow of things to come, according to Christian theology, not a 100% perfect representation. According to the prophets, the Christ would be a Suffering Servant - Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His wounds we ourselves are healed. Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have each one turned to his own way; and Jehovah made meet in Him the iniquity of all of us. Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, but He did not open His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a ewe before her shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth. Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from justice; and who shall consider His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; from the transgression of My people, the stroke was to Him. Isa 53:9 And He appointed Him His grave with the wicked, but He was with a rich man in His death; though He had done no violence, and deceit was not in His mouth. Isa 53:10 But Jehovah pleased to crush Him, to make Him sick, so that If He should put His soul as a guilt offering, He shall see His seed; He shall prolong His days; and the will of Jehovah shall prosper in His hand. Isa 53:11 He shall see the fruit of the travail of His soul; He shall be fully satisfied. By His knowledge the righteous One, My Servant, shall justify for many, and He shall bear their iniquities. Isa 53:12 Because of this I will divide to Him with the great, and with the strong He shall divide the spoil; because He poured out His soul to death; and He was counted with those transgressing; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for those transgressing. Heb 9:12 says that Jesus offered the blood he shed, as High Priest in the true Tabernacle which is in Heaven. |
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| Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim | Salaam Fasiq,
__________________I appreciate your explanation, but I don't think you have answered the contradictions well. Some you haven't answered at all: Quote:
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"God is not a man, that he should lie ; neither the son of man that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" (Numbers 19:23) The Bible contains the revealed law of God. Since the sacrifice of Christ does not conform to the law, we can discard the event as an invalid sacrifice according to GOD'S LAW. ![]() | ||
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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 114 Reputation: 37 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Gender: Way of Life: Christian | It is true that God hated human sacrifices. If you look in the Old Testament, where God is angry because someone engaged in them, you will find that it always involved children and unwilling victims. Jesus was neither. http://www.christian-thinktank.com/sacra.html Having said that, the Hebrew Scriptures, early Jewish writings and the NT clearly teach that the death of the righteous had redeeming power. The Midrash reads, "Moses said to God,"will not the time come when Israel shall have neither Tabernacle nor Temple? What will happen with them then?" God answers, "I will then take one of their righteous men and keep him as a pledge on their behalf so I may pardon all their sins." (Exodus Rabbah, Terumah 35:4) In Biblical times, before a man was stoned to death for his crimes, he was asked to make a public confession for his sins. The Mishnah teaches this person was to say, "Let my death be an atonement for all my transgressions." (m. Sanhedrin 6:2). There are examples where the death of representative sinners made atonement for a nation. In Num. 25:4 God's wrath on Israel was averted when the leaders of those who rebelled against God's commandments were slain. Another case where the shedding of human blood atones: Num 35:33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it. Num 35:34 Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel. The Bible makes a fine distinction between unlawful human sacrifices and the shedding of human blood which under special conditions atones for sins. |
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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 114 Reputation: 37 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Gender: Way of Life: Christian | Quote:
"'The day will come,' says the Lord, 'when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah....But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,' says the Lord. 'I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people" (Jeremiah 31:31,33). Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and create a new covenant between God and His people. The old covenant was written in stone, but the new covenant is written on our hearts, made possible only by faith in Christ, who shed His own blood to atone for the sins of the world. Luke 22:20 says, "After supper, [Jesus] took another cup of wine and said, 'This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you – an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you.'" http://www.gotquestions.org/new-covenant.html | |
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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 338 Reputation: 126 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Mar 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Agnostic | Sacrificies weren't required to atone for one's sins while the temple stood. In fact, it was only done in regards to unintentional sins. Even then, you didn't have to offer an animal. You could bring a sacrifice of flour. See: http://www.messiahtruth.com/atone.html |
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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 338 Reputation: 126 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Mar 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Agnostic | Quote:
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| Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim | Peace Sinner,
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| اليهودي Status: Offline Posts: 311 Reputation: 68 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ohio, USA Gender: Way of Life: Jewish | Quote:
سلام الله اكبر لا إله إلا الله أمّة إسرائيل حيّه هذا أرضي و بلدي | |
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