Seems like a figure of speech to me. When a person states that something is as numerous as the stars I do not believe they are literally suggesting that the number is indeed equivalent to the number of stars in the universe. That number could be infinite as far as we know.

I suppose as this was a statement attributed to God then the number should be seen as literal, but I don't really assume that either. During the ancient period, what number could the ancients even understand? How high of a number I mean. An expression such as "as numerous as the stars" would be easily understood however. Not in literal mathematics but in concept.

Which kinda takes me circularly back to the fact that the Jews are 0.2% of the world population at best.

When I think that the Creator deity, singled them out as a chosen nation and told them they would be as numerous as the stars and nobody would hurt them etc etc etc and the actual situation is they make up a drop in the ocean and pretty much everyone either hates them,or has killed them on sight it makes you start to question the stability of the original "holy man" who heard that particular voice!
Perhaps it's their "test"?

and (for argument sake) that is going to remain the same till the day comes? among other things (i.e. being a historian,mathematician, physicist, physician etc.) you can tell the future too? wow!

<snip>

Nope, they might have some mad giant growth of numbers that made them have a numerically significant position in the world.

Ask yourself if thats actually likely?

BTW out of your list, i consider myself a historian and sort of physician

Promise was not for the Jews, in the Bible it is promise for the "seed" of Abraham (pbuh). Seed means here progeny and followers of Abraham (pbuh).

The promise does actually concern the Jews. God made that abundantly clear in Genesis:

And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generation for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Genesis: 17: 7


Also here:

And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Genesis 12: 2-3.

It is through Jesus Christ that all of the nations of the earth have been blessed, and salvation has been made available to the Gentiles.

Also consider these few scriptures:

And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Issac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Genesis 17: 18-19.

As I illustrated earlier, God has not abandoned the Jewish people in any wise.

Remember Fedos that Ishmael was the one on the sacrificial alter not Issac!

sarcastic insults or just innocent fun and games? (maybe barney has become a believer with that exclamation mark)

I did not say it doesn't concern Jews, but as your quote of Bible shows it is a general promise for the seed of Abraham (pbuh). This was a response to barney's post. If you think that promise only included Jews then you can answer him on his question.

As far as Jews are concerned and where God has taken away Kingdom of God from them, that is entirely different topic.

I was reminding him that this was the islamic perspective.

About 60% of my stuff is sarcasm admittadly, but this bit wasnt

Genesis 17:20 "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.


>>>Is the above verse a prophecy, or a promise?

Well its Allah speaking, so that would be a promise. A prophecy is where you are predicting what will happen.
Allah wouldnt predict, he would know.

Both. First & last part is promise "I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly" "will make him a great nation"

Mid part prophecy "He shall become the father of twelve princes"

If I say, "it's raining cats and dogs" does everyone expect our furry friends to start falling from the sky? There is literalism and downright silliness.

If I say, "it's raining cats and dogs" does everyone expect our furry friends to start falling from the sky? There is literalism and downright silliness.


>>>Can you explain a little more?