warhmatulahi wabarakathu



warhmatulahi wabarakathu

I liked the deliberate attempt to misdirect the reader here. In the title you claim the difference between Islamic women & christian women. However, in your opening sentence "christian women" have now become "Westeners"

But in your defence you take a religous defence and not cultural! Could you please explain this discrepency!

Who are "they"?

Let me tell you about oppression. Make-up, curl/flat irons, and diets! It's crazy that a woman with 10 pounds of make-up on, all her assets hanging out, her feet squished into one-size-too-small stillettos, who just spent 3 hours in the mirror fixing her hair is gonna look at me and think that I am oppressed. Go figure..

Wow Sumay28

Well a man does have a degree of advantage over the woman. Nomatter what the heck you believe

excellent thread...reps for you on the way

i like this info you are a good researcher plz post more like this

Masha Allah good post.

It's very interesting to read some of the Biblical view on women. Some of the perspectives of women are completely hideous. Praise be to Allah I am a Muslim women. Islam is the only religion that gives the women her full right and respects her in every manner.

What is your point? Don’t go around the bush? Just say out your point in future.

Explanation of Surah 2:228


فِى أَرْحَامِهِنَّ إِن كُنَّ يُؤْمِنَّ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ وَبُعُولَتُهُنَّ أَحَقُّ بِرَدِّهِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ إِنْ أَرَادُواْ إِصْلَـحاً وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِى عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكُيمٌ ]

(228. And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.)

The `Iddah (Waiting Period) of the Divorced Woman
This Ayah contains a command from Allah that the divorced woman, whose marriage was consummated and who still has menstruation periods, should wait for three (menstrual) periods (Quru') after the divorce and then remarry if she wishes.

The Meaning of Al-Quru

Ibn Jarir related that `Alqamah said: We were with `Umar bin Al-Khattab when a woman came and said, "My husband divorced me one or two periods ago. He then came back to me while I had prepared my water [for taking a bath], took off my clothes and closed my door.'' `Umar asked `Abdullah bin Mas`ud, "What do you think'' He said, "I think that she is still his wife, as long as she is not allowed to resume praying (i.e., until the third period ends before he takes her back).'' `Umar said, "This is my opinion too.'' This is also the opinion of Abu Bakr As-Siddiq, `Umar, `Uthman, `Ali, Abu Ad-Darda', `Ubadah bin As-Samit, Anas bin Malik, Ibn Mas`ud, Mu`adh, Ubayy bin Ka`b, Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari and Ibn `Abbas. Furthermore, this is the opinion of Sa`id bin Musayyib, `Alqamah, Aswad, Ibrahim, Mujahid, `Ata', Tawus, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Muhammad bin Sirin, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ash-Sha`bi, Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi, Makhul, Ad-Dahhak and `Ata' Al-Khurasani. They all stated that the Quru' is the menstruation period. What testifies to this is the Hadith that Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i reported that Fatimah bint Abu Hubaiysh said that Allah's Messenger said to her:

«دَعِي الصَّلاَةَ أَيَّامَ أَقْرَائِك»

(Do not pray during your Aqra' (pl. for Quru', the menstruation period).)
If this Hadith was authentic, it would have been a clear proof that the Quru' is the menstruation period. However, one of the narrators of this Hadith, Al-Mundhir, is an unknown person (in Hadith terminology), as Abu Hatim has stated, although Ibn Hibban has mentioned Al-Mundhir in his book Ath-Thiqat.

A Woman's Statement about Menses and Purity is to be accepted
Allah said:

[وَلاَ يَحِلُّ لَهُنَّ أَن يَكْتُمْنَ مَا خَلَقَ اللَّهُ فِى أَرْحَامِهِنَّ]

(...and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs,) meaning, of pregnancy or menstruation periods. This is the Tafsir of Ibn `Abbas, Ibn `Umar, Mujahid, Ash-Sha`bi, Al-Hakam bin `Utaybah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, Ad-Dahhak and others.

Allah then said:

[إِن كُنَّ يُؤْمِنَّ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ]

(...if they believe in Allah and the Last Day.)


This Ayah warns women against hiding the truth (if they were pregnant or on their menses), indicating that they are the authority in such matters as they alone know such facts about themselves. Since verifying such matters is difficult, Allah left this decision with them. Yet, women were warned not to hide the truth in case they wish to end the `Iddah sooner, or later, according to their desires. Women were thus commanded to say the truth (if they were pregnant or on their menses), no more and no less.

The Husband has the Right to take back his Divorced Wife during the `Iddah (Waiting Period)

Allah said:

[وَبُعُولَتُهُنَّ أَحَقُّ بِرَدِّهِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ إِنْ أَرَادُواْ إِصْلَـحاً]

(And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation.)


Hence, the husband who divorces his wife can take her back, providing she is still in her `Iddah (time spent before a divorced woman or a widow can remarry) and that his aim, by taking her back, is righteous and for the purpose of bringing things back to normal. However, this ruling applies where the husband is eligible to take his divorced wife back. We should mention that (when this Ayah 2:228 was revealed), the ruling that made the divorce thrice and specified when the husband is ineligible to take his divorced wife back, had not been revealed yet. Previously, the man used to divorce his wife and then take her back even if he had divorced her a hundred separate times. Thereafter, Allah revealed the following Ayah (2:229) that made the divorce only thrice. So there was now a reversible divorce and an irreversible final divorce.



The Rights the Spouses have over Each Other

Allah said:

[وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِى عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ]

(And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable,)

This Ayah indicates that the wife has certain rights on her husband, just as he has certain rights on her, and each is obliged to give the other spouse his due rights. Muslim reported that Jabir said that Allah's Messenger said:

«فَاتَّقُوا اللهَ فِي النِّسَاءِ، فَإِنَّكُمْ أَخَذْتُمُوهُنَّ بِأَمَانَةِ اللهِ، وَاسْتَحْلَلْتُمْ فُرُوجَهُنَّ بِكَلِمَةِ اللهِ، وَلَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ أَنْ لَا يُوطِئْنَ فُرُشَكُمْ أَحَدًا تَكْرَهُونَهُ، فَإِنْ فَعَلْنَ ذَلِكَ فَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ ضَرْبًا غَيْرَ مُبَرِّحٍ، وَلَهُنَّ رِزْقُهُنَّ وَكِسْوَتُهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوف»

a(Fear Allah regarding your women, for you have taken them by Allah's covenant and were allowed to enjoy with them sexually by Allah's Words. You have the right on them that they do not allow anyone you dislike to sit on your mat. If they do that, then discipline them leniently. They have the right to be spent on and to be bought clothes in what is reasonable.)

Bahz bin Hakim said that Mu`awiyah bin Haydah Al-Qushayri related that his grandfather said, "O Messenger of Allah! What is the right the wife of one of us has'' The Prophet said:

«أَنْ تُطْعِمَهَا إِذَا طَعِمْتَ، وتَكْسُوَهَا إِذَا اكْتَسَيْتَ، وَلَا تَضْرِبِ الْوَجْهَ، وَلَا تُقَبِّحْ، وَلَا تَهْجُرْ إِلَّا فِي الْبَيْت»


(To feed her when you eat, buy her clothes when you buy for yourself and to refrain from striking her on the face, cursing her or staying away from her except in the house.)


Waki` related that Ibn `Abbas said, "I like to take care of my appearance for my wife just as I like for her to take care of her appearance for me. This is because Allah says:

[وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِى عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ]

(And they (women) have rights similar (to those of their husbands) over them to what is reasonable.)'' This statement is reported by Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abu Hatim.


The Virtue Men have over Women

Allah said:

[وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ]

(but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them.)

This Ayah indicates that men are in a more advantageous position than women physically as well as in their mannerism, status, obedience (of women to them), spending, taking care of the affairs and in general, in this life and in the Hereafter. Allah said (in another Ayah):

[الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَلِهِمْ]

(Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means.) (4:34)

Allah's statement:

[وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكُيمٌ]

(And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise) means, He is Mighty in His punishment of those who disobey and defy His commands. He is Wise in what He commands, destines and legislates.

Hm. Well, one of the reasons why I was no longer interested in being a practicing Christian was the $#@% written about women, both in the Bible and by the so-called saints of various churches. I think the New Testament has a much better view of women, and that is what Christians are technically supposed to follow, but Apostole Paul's writings on the subject are still disheartening.

HOWEVER, a variety of scholars have been arguing tha Paul's words on women were a LATER addition, following 300 AD, when Christianity first became a state religion and was adopted to fit the mysoginist norms of the times. There is some argument that Paul NEVER said that women ought to be completely silent/passive/etc.

Ultimately though, one of the main reasons I refuse to be affiliated with any major religion are it's reductive stances on women. And when Muslim women write,

I have to scratch my head. Who taught you that, sumay? Your religion? Your family? Is it somehow helpful or comforting to know that a man always has "a degree of advantage," hence your dependance on him? I guess I'll never understand a viewpoint like that, because I was raised to believe something completely different. Though I'd love if you clarified this for me though.

What were you raised to believe? Pleas enlighten me on this issue?

I as a Muslim woman have the upper hand and a right over my husband. HE PROVIDES finically FOR ME AND MY CHILDREN. He gives me extra pocket money and as well as that I can work if I please and the money I owe I DO WHAT I LIKE WITH IT. I can either share it with him or keep it to myself.

The degree that the man/ husband has over the woman is of benefit to her! No complains. The Muslim women is happy and privileged!

The degree that the husband has is a responsibility! To whom? The woman.

So while some of the Western women are running around trying to level themselves to a man, I am relaxed and taken care of.


Let me quote Dr Zakir Naik from his lecture "Women's Right in Islam Modernizing or Outdated?"

As I said in the beginning of my talk, Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.

Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A’ and ‘B’, during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100

Out of the hundreds of students, 2 come out first ‘A’ and ‘B’

When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.

In question 1 student ‘A’ got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B’ got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A’ was higher than student ‘B’.

In question 2, student ‘A’ got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B’ got 9 out of 10,
- Student ‘B’ was higher than student ‘A’ in question number 2.

In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal

So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A’ and ‘B’ got 80 out of 100

So in short, student ‘A’ and student ‘B’ are over all equal

In some question ‘A’ is higher than ‘B’, in some question ‘B’ is higher than ‘A’, in others both are equal

In the same fashion, taking the example that since Allah has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights’ - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?’

No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - under normal circumstances since Allah has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.

So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman

Let us take another example where… where it comes to giving respect to the -where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father. :sister:

Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal

I was raised to depend first and foremost on my self. Furthermore, I have learned, by experience, that nobody owes me anything because I am a woman. In fact, people are more likely to take advantage of me because I am a woman.

Now, I personally don't have a problem with the set-up you're describing, I think that it's wonderful when to people can so wholly trust each other, and when one provides for the house, for example, while the other raises the children. This exists in many communities, not just Muslim ones.

Hm. I'm not sure what you mean by that. I personally take great joy in earning my own money and taking care of myself, or even my habibi when he needs it. I don't see any shame in it, just like I don't see any shame in being taken care of when I need it. But I grew up in such a scary time, in such a bankrupt country, that I will always feel the need to rely on myself financially to a certain degree. I've seen women abused and otherwise mistreated, stripped of their rights for not having financial independence. I vowed that I would never put myself in that position.

But I don't judge women who are relaxed and taken care of. I can only hope that they will not judge me, right?

Very true. But women have higher threshholds of pain and better peripheral vision. Just a point to ponder. ;)

Hi Lush

Well that's where we differ.


I am assueming you have a clear picture of what Allah is addressing us in 2:228

And the example given by Dr Zakir Naik explains that well.



That’s good. No shame in it at all. Islamically if the woman wants to help her husband out financially or otherwise there is no problem. What I meant by my statement is that many women from the West feel the need to work and do jobs that men do. Thus they fail the responsibility of home and children.

.


I see where you're coming from. I guess in Islam the woman has clear rights and doesn't really have to worry too much about financial independence. When she is not married it's up to her father or brothers or uncles to provide for her. And if they are not alive then it’s the responsibility of the Muslim community to provide for her.


I made a judgment based on your words.