This is how I view Reality and how I beleve a Bible writen in this day and age might look.

This is how I would like to see Religion today. I wrote this and I know you are of the Islam faith. Just for one minute look at what I wrote, It is ok to laugh at me but my goal would be to bring our small planet together as one.

Definition of terms
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Church The word church is derived through Middle and Old English cirice, circe from the Greek κυριακον "Lord's". However, most English versions of the New Testament use the word church to translate ecclesia, in Greek ἐκκλησία, literally "the called out" referring to those who are saved and not to a religious assembly. The Scots and Scottish English word kirk has a related etymology and is a cognate.
In English, the word can be used in reference to a gathering of people for a religious meeting but is sometimes used to refer to a building or group of buildings. It is also used to refer to a denomination that places the leadership of all congregations in a central location, such as the "Roman Catholic Church"; in this context it is usually capitalized. It can also be used in an institutional sense to refer to all churches, such as "the church today".
Although the Christian Bible says that the church is actually the body of believers, in Jewish times, the temple at Jerusalem held the presence of God in a place called the Holy of Holies. After the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Bible says that the Holy Spirit (the presence of God) dwells within each believer.

Reality in everyday usage means "everything that exists." The term "Reality," in its most liberal sense, includes everything that is, whether or not it is observable, accessible or understandable by science, philosophy, theology or any other system of analysis. Reality in this sense may include both being and nothingness, whereas "existence" is often restricted to being. (Compare with nature). But reality really means the consciousness of everything and everyone that exists, consciousness is reality and existense.
In the strict sense of European-German philosophy, there are levels or gradation to the nature and conception of reality. These levels include, from the most subjective to the most rigorous:

Science (from Latin scientia - knowledge) refers to a system of acquiring knowledge – based on empiricism, experimentation, and methodological naturalism – aimed at finding out the truth. The basic unit of knowledge is the theory, which is a hypothesis that is predictive. The term science also refers to the organized body of knowledge humans have gained by such research.
Most scientists feel that scientific investigation must adhere to the scientific method, a process for evaluating empirical knowledge under the working assumption of methodological materialism, which explains observable events in nature by natural causes without assuming the existence or non-existence of the supernatural. Less formally, the word science often describes any systematic field of study or the knowledge gained from it. Particular specialized studies that make use of empirical methods are often referred to as sciences as well. This article concentrates on the more specific definition.
Science as defined above is sometimes termed pure science to differentiate it from applied science, the application of research to human needs.
Fields of science may also be classified along two major lines:
• Experiment, the search for first-hand information, versus theory, the development of models to explain what is observed
• Natural science, the study of the natural phenomena, versus social science, the study of human behaviour and society
Mathematics is often referred to as a science, but the fruits of mathematical sciences, known as theorems, are obtained by logical derivations, which presume axiomatic systems rather than a combination of observation and reasoning. Many mathematical methods have fundamental utility in the empirical sciences, of which the fruits are hypotheses and theories.

Nature (also called the material world, the material universe, the natural world, and the natural universe) is all matter and energy, especially in its essential form. Nature is the subject of scientific study, and the history of the concept is linked to the history of science. The English word derives from a Latin term, natura, which was in turn a translation of a Greek term, physis (φύσις). Natura is related to the Latin words relating to "birth", while physis relates to Greek words relating to "growth". In scale, "nature" includes everything from the universal to the subatomic. This includes all things animal, plant, and mineral; all natural resources and events (hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes). It also includes the behaviour of living animals, and processes associated with inanimate objects - the "way" that things change.

Faith The word faith has various uses; its central meaning is similar to "belief", "trust" or "confidence", but unlike these terms, "faith" tends to imply a transpersonal rather than interpersonal relationship – with God or a higher power. The object of faith can be a person (or even an inanimate object or state of affairs) or a proposition (or body of propositions, such as a religious credo). In each case, however, the faithful subject's faith is in an aspect of the object that cannot be rationally proven or objectively known. Faith can also be defined as accepting as true something which one has been told by someone who is believed to be trustworthy. In its proper sense faith means trusting the word of another.
Religion (see etymology below) —sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system—is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine; and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions and rituals associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken many forms in various cultures and individuals.
Occasionally, the word "religion" is used to designate what should be more properly described as "organized religion" – that is, an organization of people supporting the exercise of some religion, often taking the form of a legal entity (see religion-supporting organization). There are many different religions in the world today.
Overview
With an estimated 2.3 billion adherents[1], Christianity is arguably the world's largest religion. Its origins are intertwined with Judaism, with which it shares much sacred text and early history; specifically, it shares the Hebrew Bible as the Old Testament.2 Christianity is considered an Abrahamic religion, along with Judaism and Islam (see Judeo-Christo-Islamic).
In the Christian scriptures, the names "Christian" and hence "Christianity" are first attested in Acts 11:26: "For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch Jesus' disciples were first called Christians" (Gr. χριστιανους, from Christ Gr. Χριστός, which means "the anointed").

Christianity is a monotheistic religion centered on the stories it teaches about the life, and actions, of Jesus of Nazareth as recounted in the New Testament.
Denominations
Within Christianity, numerous distinct groups have developed, with diverse beliefs that vary widely by culture and place. Since the Reformation, Christianity is usually represented as being divided into three main branches:
• Eastern Christianity, includes the Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Eastern Orthodox Churches, all with a combined membership of more than 240 million baptized members;
• Catholicism: With more than 1 billion baptized members, this category includes the Roman Catholic Church, the largest single body -- which includes several Eastern Catholic communities -- as well as certain smaller communities (e.g., the the Old-Catholics;
• Protestantism: The category includes numerous denominations and groups such as: Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed, Evangelical, Charismatic, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, Anabaptists, and Pentecostals. The oldest of these groups separated from the Roman Catholic Church in the 16th-century Protestant Reformation. The later groups typically formed as separations from the older ones. Some Protestants identify themselves simply as Christian, or born-again Christian. Others, particularly among Anglicans and in Neo-Lutheranism, identify themselves as being "both Catholic and Protestant." Worldwide total is just under 500 million.
Other denominations and churches which self-identify as Christian but which distance themselves from the above classifications together claim around 275 million members. These include African indigenous churches with up to 110 million members (estimates vary widely), Jehovah's Witnesses with approximately 6.6 million members3, The Church Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (also called Mormons) with more than 12 million members4, and other groups.5 The early leaders of most of these groups were originally Protestant adherents.
These broad divisions do not themselves encompass unanimity. On the contrary, some branches encompass vast disagreements, while in other cases the divisions overlook strong sympathies between/among the groups. Nevertheless, this tends to be the standard overview of distinctions, especially as viewed in the Western world.
A chart showing the development of various churches from their roots in early Christianity.
Beliefs
Jesus' crucifixion as portrayed by Diego Velázquez. Jesus' life, especially his crucifixion and resurrection, is the basis of Christianity.
Enormous diversity of belief exists among Christians. Nevertheless, certain doctrines have come to characterize the mainstream of Christian theology.
The Trinity
Main article: Trinity
The belief that God is a single eternal being who exists as three distinct, eternal, and indivisible persons: Father, Son (Divine Logos, incarnated as Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost).

6. Please refrain from typing extremely huge letters in order to get your message through.

Just for one minute look at what I wrote

Are you kidding?
Where did you cut and paste that lot???
Give me a year or two, and I might try to read it all.

Don't make me regret I said we should hear you out!

Peace.

I just do not like the atheist view that religion should be abolished which i get from some people, even when i was not religious i didnt hold this hideaous attitude thank god, and i do not like how hes comparing all religions to be the same, just not something you do especially that its based on his opinion and not facts ( not hard facts anyway) i can come with a million conspiracy theories, doesnt mean i do it.

and for ur info athiest, i am very scientific as well, you do not even realize that science and Islam can coexist together unlike many other religions so stop comparing it to be the exact of Chrisitianity and Judaism.


and theres nothing more i dislike is a forum troll who copies and pastes, i can do that too but choose to use my own words instead of being a copy and paste addict

just do not like the atheist view that religion should be abolished

I hate it when people generalise like this, it's as bad as thinking all muslims are terrorists...............

I didnt say all my dad is atheist but he has repsect for others, and did u not read when i said i was not religious at one point in time even considered myself atheiest for a short while but i did not have this attitude that many have that all religious people are barbaric ancient thinking morons like we arent capable of understanding science as well, well i sure do im a psy major and biology minor and have taking countless anthropolgy classes as well out of interest and aced everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He just holds that you guys must be dumb for being religious attitude and i dont like it

There’s certainly a lot said in that video, and a lot to be said about it. But it certainly did not shook my faith, far from it. I’ll try to comment on most subject raised, obviously I’ll have missed out some of the comments out of a 1:50 long documentary. So if there’s any points you feel like discussing please do not hesitate to bring them. Also my quotations are not perbatum, I quickly typed the gist of important issues in a doc while listening, I’m not going to take the time to reproduce them exactly, you are of course welcome to correct me shoul I have twisted some of the words.

symbolism and worshiping thunder and sun
First of all let me point out there is no symbolism in Islam (as far as I know of). The holy grail does not exist. There’s no sun-references and such. Also note that they are very quick to draw conclusions. Some people worshipped false deity’s in the past -> therefore all worship is false.

Soul cultivating can only by done by actions not by knowledge. It’s not what you know what you do.

This verse stood out somewhat, because later in the documentary they claim the complete opposite, I suppose they meant it sarcastically the first time. However Islam will tell you both are important, or like romans said: mens sana in corpus sana.

All Religions claim to be the only true religion, so only one can be true, so all others are false. so all other people are others sinners? Hell for eternity just because one didn't believe?

Throughout history nobody has returned from the death therefore preparation for the afterlife is a waste of time.

Obviously nobody has, but that deosn’t contradict religion, as religion states there is no coming back to this world. The argument is absurd. Just because something has not occurred (we have not already died) does not mean we don’t have to prepare.

And since we don't know which religion is true, how can we truly prepare for an entirely unknown situation?

Well if you believe you DO know which religion is true. You were given common sense why forsake it? Believing by definition means to accept as true without proof. Which religion is “true”? Well which one makes sense?

Man slaughtered and mutilated because of belief, but doesn't it teach love?

Here the speaker contradicts himself. He uses the argument of violent people to disproof belief, but at the same time admits that belief preaches something else. Which one is the wrongdoer, when it is man who abuses religion to justify his evil acts?

Country's with a lot of religion lot of crime, and vice versa.

I tend not to believe that? Shall we compare graphs? I think we’ll discover the exact opposite is true. In general, religion holds the evil of man back.

Religion offers temporary explanations to issues like: the meaning of life, death, infinite life. But God had to be created to answer these questions.

The answers Islam gave 1400 years ago are still standing, so they are not that “temporary”. And what’s wrong with assuming the answers were created because of God rather then the other way around?

[quote]Can you imagine to run your business by a manual written ages ago, then translated a whole bunch of time? [quote]
Well the Qur’an has stayed original over time. And today Islam is still perfectly implemental and sees no need to “adapt” to new times. Let me counter the question: Can you imagine that in order to operate a machine; you consult a manual other then the manufacture’s manual? Who is better to guide your life then your own creator?

In the dark ages earth was flat, and you are a heretic if you state otherwise.

In Islam we have always believed in scientifically accurate notions.

Religious leaders don't want you to think but follow blindly like soldiers, and the similarity continues as religion also sets out to destroy.

Islam invites to question, research and discover. As knowledge can only bring us closer to the truth.


Similar storys:
I was already familiar with the ancient Egypt believes, but the given description is inaccurate. The gods were related to the flood, but there’s really no similarities with Noah’s flooding. Which b.t.w. could very well have been the filling of the black sea who used to be a lake only half the size, 50 meters deeper, and filled in about a week. As for the references to baptism, baptism does not exist in Islam. As for the name, “argha noa”. I’ve tried to look it up, but the only reference I found were based on that movie. I’m not saying that it is false just because I didn’t find evidence, but I’ll need a lil‘ bit more then there mentioning to believe it.

http://www.google.be/search?hl=nl&q=...G=Zoeken&meta=

Not a single thing that cannot be traced back to other previous religions.

That’s a bold statement. There’s numerous things from religion that were previously unprecedented. Of course there have been many prophets (according to Islam, 100 000), so it’s possible to find traces of similar rulings and revelations. But just because one prophet says the same as another doesn’t mean that one copied from the other, if they are both prophets in eth same religion.

A pharaoh changed the Egyptian faith from worshipping many gods to worshipping one God RA amen-ra. Pharaoh was the incarnation of god, who ruled for god on earth

It was never a monotheistic religion Amon-ra was the supreme God, something like Zeus having power over the other Roman Gods. There is no similarity between hours and jezus apart from the similar sounding name. The most well known name is the Greek Horus, representing the Egyptian Heru/Har, which is the basic element in most of the other names of Horus. Horus was so important that the Eye of Horus became an important Egyptian symbol of power. He had a man's body and a hawk's head. He only had one eye because after Osiris was murdered by his brother Seth, Horus fought with Seth for the throne of Egypt. In this battle Horus lost one of his eyes and later this became a sign of protection in Egypt. The pharaoh was not an incarnation of God, all the pharaoh’s (plural) were sons of God (halfgods). they were sent as intermediate between people and Gods. As for the simular ending of prayer. It is already mentioned in another topic that Amen has a difrent meaning in Hebrew, to which you replied it comes from the egyptian language none-the less. However that doesn't mean anything. Lets say tomorow a new religion origenates in arabia and they have a deity which they call Allah, then that doesn't mean that that new religion is inspired by islam. Allah means God, arabic christians call there God Allah. they'd only adapt the terminology because they use the same language. SImular, just because the hebrew word is derived from Ra, doesn't mean that any religion which uses that word is therefor derived from the religion of RA.

Then there’s a whole list of alleged similarities with other Gnostic stories, lets’ take a look at them:

*Lamb of god - dalai lama (deus lama) this religion originated around the year 1400A.D. How can this have been an influence? It’s more likely the other way around wouldn’t you agree? A.c.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_lama
*Thulis ->search turned out blank
*Coite -> search turned out blank
*Thammuz -> Babylonian God, not a son of god no analogy with Jesus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz
*Atys -> not son of a god, son a of a king. Are all princes a reference to Jesus? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atys_father_of_Lydus
*Hesus only link is the similar name, a simple coincidence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesus
*Bali is an ancient king who opposed the 5th incarnation of vishnu, no similarity.
*Indra is the chief deity of the Rig-Veda, and the god of weather and war, and Lord of Svargaloka in Hinduism. no parallelism.
*Iao Sabaoth is applied together or seperately as Gnostic archons; the Gnostic Iao is associated with both Abraxas and the seven headed dragon; he is sometimes referred to as the "Father of Lies.
*Mitra has again no simularities , but zoroastrism does carry traces of this deity, and there we see simular aspects like trinity. But there’s no indication Mitra has anything to do with that.
*Sakia -> search turned out blank
*Alceste was a princess in Greek mythology, Alcestis ("might of the home") was known for her love for her husband. Their story was popularised in Euripides's tragedy Alcestis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcestis
*Quexaicote was Mexican God, I didn’t even search this one. The ancient tribes in America didn’t have ships, only small canoes, they were isolated from other continents, and therefore couldn’t have influenced Christianity.
Prometheus the human who stole the fire from the Gods, again no similarity.
*Wittoba was another incarnation of Vishnu, the avatar named Wittoba or Vithoba ... This incarnation of Vishnu or CRISTNA is called Wittoba or Ballaji
*Quirinus a god in the polytheistic Roman mythology. No similarities.
*Chrisna -> here there actually are some good example of similarities. Probably the reason why they focussed on this one rather then the other examples. However most references are slightly changed and taken out of context to accentuate the similarity, this to hide the fact that it’s a stretch.

Egyptian symbolism
It is true that the western, Christian society has many symbols who come from the Egyptian myths. However there’s a reason for that. As Christianity spread, in order to easely impose it’s doctrine to the areas it conquered it adapted some of the symbols of the places so it would be easyer for people to accept. 25 December for example is a holiday they made up to compensate for the Celts who celebrated the shortest day of the year on that day; the decorating of a tree is a tradition that comes from then. The reason the put lil' chapels on crosroads in forests is an adaptation of teh roman mythology who thought forrests-nymphs attacked on crosroads. So the Romans put certain statues there to prevent them from attacking. this was a very common thing in the early christianity to adapt to new cultures. The Shepard, the iron staff, all similar things. It’s not that Christianity is born out of these influences, Christianity assimilated to these other cultures, but the original pure religion as thought by Jesus didn’t have all the se symbols and references.

Then the freemasons. As Christianity came to Egypt, a small sect was created that had both Christian and ancient Egyptian concepts combined. This sect was first allowed in Christianity but in the dark ages when Christianity started with it’s crusade this was labelled heretic ,and this sect had to flee underground, it is the beginning of the freemasons. And there were many influential people throughout history that were a member of this sect, and who in honour of it, placed references. The dollar bill, the obelisk in Washington, the pyramid in front of the Louvre in France, the obelisk a couple meters away from it.

The zodiac in the Bible.
It could be that there are actually references to astronomy in the bible, since Christianity adapted many concepts from other cultures, however a lot of the references seemed far fetched and totally ripped out of context. Is it that peculiar that there’s a story of a man wearing a pitcher? I mean it’s not like the pitcher is the aquarius’ copyright. If I wear a pitcher does that mean I believe in astrology to? The story wasn’t even about “the end of times”
The word “age “ can have many meanings.


Origine of names
There’s more to etymology then cutting it up in syllables and looking to anything that looks familiar.
*Israel:
O.E., "the Jewish people," from L. Israel, from Gk., from Heb. yisra'el "he that striveth with God" (Gen. xxxii.28), symbolic proper name conferred on Jacob and extended to his descendants, from sara "he fought, contended" + El "God." As an independent Jewish state in the country formerly called Palestine, it is attested from 1948. Citizens of it are called Israelis; the ancient people are Israelites (1382).
*Solomon:
masc. proper name, Biblical name of David's son, king of Judah and Israel and wisest of all men, from Gk. Solomon, from Heb. Sh'lomoh, from shelomo "peaceful," from shalom "peace." The Arabic form is Suleiman. The common medieval form was Salomon (Vulgate, Tyndale, Douai); Solomon was used in Geneva Bible and KJV. Used allusively for "a wise ruler" since 1554.
*Jonah:
masc. proper name, biblical prophet, from L.L. Jonas, from Gk. Ionas, from Heb. Yonah, lit. "dove, pigeon."

Mana is actually a mushroom since the bible says it's "a small round thing", and the high priest’s headdress looks like a mushroom, so mana must be a mushroom right?

Euhm, ok, were the chewing some while coming up with this?

Older religions also has similar prophets who received law from a mountain.

Yes Like I said there have been 100 000 prophets.

Holy mountain = pyramid?

stretching it again.

why are the death sea scrolls so controversial?

Because they show how much they have they have diverted from their original religion.

Every religion has personified that deity.

Islam hasn’t. All we know about Allah are his 99 attributes (most just, most mercifull, without beginning, all powerfull, and the list goes on…)

Does doing religious deeds cultivate the soul?

Yes all rules have benefit both in this life as in the next. Not as a standard, but as a mercy of Allah, he could just as well have set rules that do not benefit us to test our obedience.

A spiritual man does not do what we witness done under the guise of religion.

The same contradiction as before, they acknowledge that it is only mankind who does this under the guise of religion, rather then religion itself causing this, yet in the same time they blame religion for it.

Finally one of the last topics is nothing new for us, the bible has indeed been changed and influenced to many times across history, it has indeed lost his reliability.

Suggestion:
Maybe the mods could merge this thread with:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ers-islam.html
Which talks about the same thing.
Two thread about the same topic can create confusing discussions.

Steve

Thank you for the great feedback on the video. It will take me some time to write a reply so I just wanted to say thank you.

Originally Posted by glo

Are you kidding?
Where did you cut and paste that lot???
Give me a year or two, and I might try to read it all.

Don't make me regret I said we should hear you out!

Peace.

I did cut and paste alot of it because I wrote it for a movie I am working on and I did not have a bunch of time to finnish it.

This is how I view the world as an Atheist:

We all are products of our envrionment and in most cases nothing more.

One bourn in the US will be a Christian.
One bourn in China will be a Buddist.
One bourn in Saudi Arabia will be Islam.
One bourn in India will be Hindu.

As childeren most do not have a choice. After puberty it is hard or impossible for one to be a free thinker free of Religion.

I know I am not supposed to post links however maby this one time.

This is Dr. Dawkins of Oxford University and I share his views.

Part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PqdC...s%20of%20faith

Part two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB2vm...search=atheism

Part three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGeL1...search=atheism

They are only 10 or 15 minutes long.

you think that is always true and your generalizing, actually a good percentage of china is christian now, india is a mix of hindu, islam, jainism, buddhism, shikism and some christianity, the untied states well hey we have em all, and i was born in the united states to white and hispanic catholic parents, so ehhhh try again

wow, i just looked back on this post and i been mean, sorry, very moody today atheist

What the origin of religion has to do with topic "People of Islam"?

Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace

He just holds that you guys must be dumb for being religious attitude and i dont like it

I mean no disrespect and appoligise if I have upset you.

Religion has its place and purpose in the first century AD however man has discovered a few things since then.

It is your choice to believe pias myth. Most do it out of fear of their Religious faith.

Everything changes no matter how bad you want it not to change it will.

This is a fact and someday we as humans will be able to overcome our religious predjedous.

We are all Brothers and Sisters, If you ask what race I belong to, I will tell you I belong to the Human Race.

We make mistakes and nothing is perfect, not Science or Religion.

The Athiest

Originally Posted by The Athiest

I mean no disrespect and appoligise if I have upset you.

Religion has its place and purpose in the first century AD however man has discovered a few things since then.

It is your choice to believe pias myth. Most do it out of fear of their Religious faith.

Everything changes no matter how bad you want it not to change it will.

This is a fact and someday we as humans will be able to overcome our religious predjedous.

We are all Brothers and Sisters, If you ask what race I belong to, I will tell you I belong to the Human Race.

We make mistakes and nothing is perfect, not Science or Religion.

The Athiest

yes religion and science both have its place, as Muslims we can have both, its not anti- science the way Christianity is, that is what i meant by stop saying it is the same, similar but not a carbon copy in no way. And some things in science are not clear proof either, much theory with some evidence, thats something every atheist needs to think about as well, life is not so simple and black and white no matter what ones beliefs are.


sorry if i offended you in anyway before with my ranting moments