Greetings My fellow brothers.
without causing problems I would be very greatful if you would allow me to Conduct a Debate on the topic "was muhammad a true prophet" if you would allow me to do this. I will address my case if this is permitted. and May I wish any of my posts not be edited or deleted. I would like to conduct this
Debate with 1 of any of my brothers only here please.
Truth forgiveness and Love to you all here,
God Bless
Mike
Please Permission to begin my case?.
Hello Mikeengland,
You have a record for spamming the forum with articles from anti-islamic sites as opposed to engaging in actual discussion. If you want to discuss Prophet Muhammad pbuh, I think it is best for you to first familiarize yourself with his teachings, rather than copy-pasting allegations you've read on other hate sites. Here is where you can read some of his teachings:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...s-prophet.html
Regards
this is silly.
how can it be proven in any way?
it's strictly a matter of belief.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Dear Brother Ansar Al-'Adl
Please forgive me for my comment's. I do not go on anti-Islamic websites. I know it sounds like i do but truthfully brother Ansar Al-'Adl I do not. I'd like to address a couple of points which are a direct source of Quran and Hadith, please Sir. Thank-you for your kindness In allowing me to speak truth.
ok I dont want to blurt this out as i know feelings can get involved. So ill just say it.
The Quran in Sura 110:1 says:
When there comes the Help of Allah (to you, O Muhammad, against your enemies) and the Conquest (of Makkah [Mecca]). (Hilali and Khan)
This verse predicts the help of Allah, but Muhammad’s death from sickness and poison indicates the exact opposite; no help or healing came from Allah.
[Muhammad] asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They [some Jews] said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 394:
Narrated Abu Huraira.
Jesus never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22)
Muhammad was a sinner (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)
now not to sound rude or get banned mr Ansar Al-'Adl but the Truth is:
Muhammad doesnt even Know what will happen to Him In The After-Life. Let Alone to anyone who follows him?
Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
Before anyone would Post back here, I would like to appologise If This has sounded insulting or rude. But Dear brothers and sisters This is Directly from Quran/Hadith so please do not accuse me of lyeing.
Please if you can Answer my Questions In Friendly Loving Environment.
Thanks
God Bless
Mike
mods plz dont close this thread, because we hav heavy debators like brother ansar who can fix dis ppl up in 1 second, so lets debate
now mike england, how r u? hows d footyu been goin 2 d pub yeh
now now
well well we will debate in a loving waylol
n dnt try it blud u no u blatantly been on anti islamic sites u saddo
in the bible it says in 10.30 " i & my father are one" but then in 14.28 it says
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I"
now dats a blatantly made up thin, bcos it says d father n me r 1, then it says, the father is greater then i!! now now
as regardin ur thins
1st of all when u quote can u plz quote fully blud!!! the REAL hadiths is here
Narrated Abu Huraira:
When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophets as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?'' They said, "Yes.' The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a ie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He siad, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O AbuAl-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it.'' Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Ab Li-AI-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." [muslim]
RasoolAllah (saw) knew they were lying about their fathers, and he knew about the sheep, but RasoolAllah (saw) didnt eat the sheep!! also in the hadiths, we can see that RasoolAllah (saw) found out they were lying, HOW DID HE FIND OUT? BECAUSE HE WAS TRUTHFULL!!!
so ur 1st point is CRAP
n d sinner bit WOTEVA READ D SURAH BEFORE QUOTIN dats surah momin and the verse goes
"Patiently, then, persevere: for the Promise of Allah is true: and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and celebrate the Praises of thy Lord in the evening and in the morning."
basically its sayin IF YOU have any faults then ask forgiveness for them!!
so so mikey any more stuff frm ur wannabe sites
Last edited by chacha_jalebi; 06-28-2006 at 11:26 PM.
"they ask you when will the help of Allah (swt) come! Certainly Allah (Swt) help is always near"
Surah al Baqarah v214
Originally Posted by mikeengland
The parts in bold seem very familiar. Its as if someone else before you copy/pasted that from a hate website. How strange.
Ive never never heard of a "hilali" translation.
Besides, in the Hadith had it been taken from a Islamic website or something of the sort, there would have been included after the name of the Prophet
"(SAW)" or "(PBUH)".
You obviously didnt type it up because it is free of spelling errors whilst the part in your posts has many spelling errors.
The last part in bold is definetly copied/pasted. Ive seen that same reference in so many anti-islamic websites.
I think you should do a little better when your trying to copy/paste something and then trying to cover it up, its a little too obvious.
Last edited by Muraad; 06-28-2006 at 11:32 PM.
The example of those who take allies other than Allah is like that of the spider who takes a home. And indeed, the weakest of homes is the home of the spider, if they only knew. Indeed, Allah knows whatever thing they call upon other than Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. And these examples We present to the people, but none will understand them except those of knowledge.
[al-'Ankaboot; 41-44]
Dont Worry Akhi, the Mahdi Soldier has Come!
Allright then what do we have here a guy who thinks Muhammad sws wasnt a true prophet comparing to Jesus pbuh. Hmmm Allright lets get it cleared up before i start.
Mr mike i hope you being a christian can answer this portion of the bible for me.
Jeremiah Chapter 8:8 in which it states in the new international version taken from biblegateway.org
Jeremiah 8:8 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
Hmmm so even your own bible goes against christianity and itself, but InshAllah one day you open your eyes
Now if Muhammad sws was a true prophet lets do a comparison test to jesus and moses pbupon both prophets
Area of Comparison
Moses Muhammad Jesus
Birth- Usual - Usual - Unusual
Family Life - Married,Children -Married Children - No marriege(or DVC)
Death - Usual - Usual - Unusual
Career - Prophet/Statesman- Prophet/Statesman- Prophet
Forced emigration- to Median - To Medina - None
(in adulthood)
Encounter with Enemies- Hot pursuit - Hot pursuit/Battles-no similar ecount.
Result of Encounter- moral/physical win - moral/physical win - moral win
Writing of Revelation- in lifetime - in lifetime - After him
Nature of Teachings- Spiritual/legal - Spiritual/legal - Mainly spiritual
Acceptance of --Rejected then accepted- <- Same - Rejected by most Israel
Leadership by his
People
So it seems that Muhammad swsjust by these comparison standards may have resembled Moses pbuh in Prophethood, and oh oh If Muhammadsws not being a prophet, why would he speak of the prophets of old such as Jesus son of mary pbuthem
Hello Mike
Excuse me? We had to remove your posts when you were spamming the forum with anti-islamic articles from CARM, as opposed to dialoguing yourself,
Did you read the link I gave you?Thank-you for your kindness In allowing me to speak truth.
No, this verse is prophesizing the conquest of Makkah and other such victories that awaited the Muslims. The translation you quoted even puts that in parenthesis. And this prophecy was fullfilled. Prophet Muhammad pbuh manifestly WAS victorious, his enemies were vanquished and Islam prevailed in arabia, enter tribes entered into Islam in masses, as is prophesized in the verse that follows the one you quoted.The Quran in Sura 110:1 says:
When there comes the Help of Allah (to you, O Muhammad, against your enemies) and the Conquest (of Makkah [Mecca]). (Hilali and Khan)
This verse predicts the help of Allah, but Muhammad’s death from sickness and poison indicates the exact opposite
This happened immediately after the Battle of Khaybar in 7H, the Prophet and his companions were given a poisoned lamb and after eating from it, some of them died there, as related by Al-Bayhaqi. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh died 4 years later in 11H, only after he completed his mission and finished conveying the message, as was intended by Allah swt.[Muhammad] asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They [some Jews] said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 394:
Narrated Abu Huraira.
Are you sure? THis is how the Bible portrays Jesus:Jesus never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22)
He appears rude (John 2:4, Matt. 12:48, Mark 3:33-4), mean-spirited (Matt. 15:26, 17:17, 23:33-5), offensive (John 8:44, Matt. 23:13-29), abusive (Matt. 12:39, 23:23-9, Luke 11:44), disrespectful (Matt. 11:21-3, 16:4, 23:13-9), divisive (Matt. 10:35, Luke 14:26), racist (Matt. 15:26) and prone to violence (Matt. 10:34; Mark 11:15; Luke 12:49-53, 19:27, 22:36). He is even tempted by the devil (Mark 1:13, Luke 4:2). He commands stealing (Matt. 21:1-3, Luke 19:29-34), and may even be a homosexual (Mark 14:49-52, John 13:23).This is living proof you are uninterested in learning - I responded to your same claim in november last year!!Muhammad was a sinner (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)
Read this post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/118389-post3.html
I refuted all your allegations there which you had copy-pasted, but I never got a response from you.
A couple of points to note here:
1. The belief of the infallibility of the Prophets means that they cannot commit sin but are still susceptible to minor mistakes, like all human beings. See here for more info:
http://www.islamicboard.com/75709-post2.html
2. Maghfirah (forgiveness) implies protection in Islam, as it is derived from the same root as a shielding helmet.
3. Tauba (repentence) in Islam is not just for the sinful, it is for everyone, just like one can bathe when they are dirty, but people bathe regularly, dirty or not dirty.I hope you will read my answer this time.
Imam At-Tabari quotes narrations explaining this to mean "I do not know what will happen to you or I in this world", meaning that the Prophet pbuh rejected the notion that he possesed knowledge of al-ghayb, the unseen, for only God has complete knowledge. But there are many verses and hadith in which the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his followers are promised paradise if they persevere.Muhammad doesnt even Know what will happen to Him In The After-Life. Let Alone to anyone who follows him?
Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
Please read our answers if that is what you want.Please if you can Answer my Questions In Friendly Loving
Regards
hi mikeengland
Prophet Muhammad[PUBH]The Quran in Sura 110:1 says:
When there comes the Help of Allah (to you, O Muhammad, against your enemies) and the Conquest (of Makkah [Mecca]). (Hilali and Khan)
He was a man with a noble and exalted mission —and his unique mission was to unite humanity in the worship of the One and only God and to teach them the way to honest and upright living in accordance with the laws and commands of God. He always described himself as a Messenger and servant of God, as indeed every single action and movement of his proclaimed him to be.
Some Comment from the non Muslim World!!! The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him "the most successful of all religious personalities of the world."
Bernard Shaw said, "if Muhammad (pbuh) were alive today, he would succeed in solving all those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our times."
!!! Thomas Carlysle was amazed as to how one man, single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades.
Napoleon and Gandhi never tired of dreaming of a society along the lines established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.
Now pls tell me how can one man, single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering a very uncivilized radical Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades ???????????????????????? How
In 632 CE Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) made a final pilgrimage to Makkah with over 100,000 of his followers, and gave his last sermon. He died a few months later at Medina.
It is very clear that Almighty Allaah, lord of the universe who helps indeed him in many ways in order to make prophet Muhammad[pbuh] successful
Have u read the verse clearly. Ur question has no relation to that verse.This verse predicts the help of Allah, but Muhammad’s death from sickness and poison indicates the exact opposite; no help or healing came from Allah.
I give u the whole chapter with translation
Al-Qur'an, 110.001-003 (An-Nasr [Succour, Divine Support])
110.001 When comes the Help of Allah, and Victory,
110.002 And thou dost see the people enter Allah's Religion in crowds,
110.003 Celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and pray for His Forgiveness: For He is Oft-Returning (in Grace and Mercy).
What is ur point[Muhammad] asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They [some Jews] said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 394:
Narrated Abu Huraira.
U want Allaah(God) to react for some jews action?? Who changed the law of God?
Allaah react when He will (He had the bigger knowledge and thought)
And Prophet Muhammad[pbuh] did not die that time he die 4 years later from that period of time.
Bro Ansar Al-'Adl give u nice answer
read and reply
Here i am, God!i'm at your service
what kind of question is that to ask muslims??!!!
obviously all you want to do is try to prove he wasn't.
this is silly anyway - it can't be proven either way - it's a matter of faith.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
I believe it can be proven. Just not to those who have a closed mind.
Well I Thank-you for all your replies. Although none of you have Answered my Direct Questions. Instead it seems I have been swarmed with hyperlinks directing me to other websites and Insults.
Now The topic of this Thread is was muhammad a true prophet.?
My Questions need answering if you please.? 1-3.
1, Does muhammed offer any way of me getting to go to heaven.? Q1. This is a Simple yes/no Reply. (Not wonderful deeds.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Your reply is quote me if im wrong "no-one can know this" are you saying God doesnt know who will or will not go to heaven?.
my Refutal.
The Bible came before the Quran:
And I give unto them eternal life;and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
1 John 10:28
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:13
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:46
2, Did muhammad do any Miracles? Q2.
----------------------------------------------------------------
again I would appreciate Quranic/hadith verses, and not links to websites as this is not scriptual evidence.
Jesus performed many miracles all in public including healing people, calming a storm with a command, and raising people from the dead.
I would also like to add before i move on to question 3, you have highlighted words from the Bible that suggest allegations towards Jesus. Please can you Quote Full Biblical passages and verses, since I have been so kind as to provide you with full Quran/Hadith verses if you please.
3, Did muhammad predict anything that come to pass? Q3
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But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
I believe that man was created perfectly in the image of God,
and when he sinned, mankind incurred both physical and spiritual death;
thus man became eternally separated from God and is incapable of providing redemption
for himself.
Now Muhhamad offers no way to Remove my sins. since Adam and Eve where tempted In The Garden and we where born into sin, Can you agree Sin seperates Man from God? (Thats an added Question if you please)
And That we are Indeed Brothers and sisters, and Im Sorry If I sound like I am criticising your belief. But my Intentions are only to Agree on truth. I feel we should all know this for those who wish to turn towards Islam.
Please my Brothers. I thank-you for your Kindness for letting this Friendly Loving Truthful Debate to continue.
May God Bless you all
Mike.
Sorry but as I stated Earlier I would like to conduct a 1-1 Debate with a Brother here. Since no-one has decided who this will be I would like to nominate brother Ansar Al-'Adl. As I feel he is Kind Friendly and considerate.
Thanks again
Mike
Why just one brother?
Feel free to have a debate with him bro, you're going to regret it!
Make Dua for your Brothers and the Angels will make Dua for You!
Happy moments, Praise Allah
Difficult moments, Seek Allah
Quiet moments, Worship Allah
Painful moments, Trust Allah
Every moment, Thank Allah
If Allah brings you to it, He will bring you through it
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