Originally Posted by mansio

Everywhere archaeologists dig they find remnants of pagan gods.

They have never found a trace of Adam, Noah and Abraham.

It is kind of hard to find a trace of Adam considering he died over a thousand years ago.
Just because they havn't found a trace doesn't mean they don't exist. These remnants of pagan "gods" you speak of. Exactly what remnants. i.e. provide an image or link so I can see exactly just how much of these so called gods exist.

If i'm not mistaken i take it you'r refering to materialistic items of worship?
Well the reason theres none of them by adam, abraham etc is simply because they didn't have any! They worshipped allah, by their acts and thoughts, not by making a statue or something like that, so after they died, no other proof other than their legacy exist to tell us about their religion. So you'r correct there hasn't been any materialistic items of worship been found proving that islam existed before these pagan religions did, then again, to assume there would be, would exual in assuming they were misguided,paganised, get it?

You find the remnants scattered all over the world : temples, statues, inscriptions, even place names.

inscriptions: well you have the the holy books do you not, of course you don't take them as a relyable source, that's another discussion then....

statues: thats a paganistic way of worship

temples: well just because atemples have only been built in a later stadia, doesn't mean that the earlyer prophets weren't islamitic. Not all information was given at once, I don't think you fully grasp the concept of a deity working with different prophets.

Oh, you mean temples and stuff. I was thinkin something else. my mistake
Well, the human body tends to rot away after a thousand years whereas temples and other kinds of buildings will not.
Look, in a thousand years time nobody will find any remnants of your clothes, will they? But that doesn't mean you didnt exist.
And, as steve said: you won't find materialistic items of Adam and the others that you mentioned because they didn't have them.

Steve,

Many things that happened in the past are not found in one source but in several. The pharaohs of Egypt are mentioned in Egyptians annals and inscriptions and in the Bible. The Hittites are mentioned by their own inscriptions and in Egyptian annals.

Don't make me believe that God wouldn't have been powerful enough to preserve the memories of Adam, Noah and Abraham in more than one source, if they had existed. Were the pagans gods more important to Him that we find their traces all over the world ?

By the way, if you believe Adam existed, tell me when he lived.

Ah nice question. I can't answer it cus i wasn't born at the time. However, i can counter the question to you: You had a great grandfather who's great grandfather had a great grandfather but you don't know when he lived. One can make an estimate of the time of that. one can also make an estiamte of the time of Adam. My estimation is a several thousand years ago. however, i cannot pin pointy it because i dont know how long man has been on earth as the method of calculating years have changed (e.g. B.C and A.C). Thus, i cannot answer your question because i don't really know what year he was born.

God is all powerful but He doesn't perform Human actions for He is God - not a human. He works differently and so His method of preserving the memories of Adam etc are different to what an average human's.

There is also another reason why Adam isn't remebered by a material item. This is because people would start to worship the idol/item and forget about the true person Adam was. it is called idol worshipping. this is also one of the reasons there are no pictures of Allah and why we as muslims are forbidden to idol worship.

Originally Posted by mansio

Everywhere archaeologists dig they find remnants of pagan gods.

They have never found a trace of Adam, Noah and Abraham.

mansio

If something is not found that does not constitutes it never existed. Beside that, a corpse in a decade is usually reduced to skull and few bones. So how would you think your so-called archaeologists would conclude that these bones belongs to or are of, Adam, Noah Abraham? I wasn't aware that your so-called archaeologists are that advance who can identify thousands years old bones and can tell with precision accuracy that it was/is "John Doe" who lived 6000 years ago?

Your statement is also very generalized and biased, because remnanats of pagan gods are not the only things that have been found, however, other things are not an issue here. Nevertheless, Adam (as) built the Ka'ba, but again you don't believe in that. Ka'ba is still standing, also, we have some information in traditions about things your archaeologists and you don't know. Needless to mention that some of your Biblical Prophets have come to Ka'ba and performed Hajj, I wonder why? Here is one proof out of many from your Bible, which is pretty detailed and comprehensive..

Prophet Ezekiel’s account of Performing Hajj

Originally Posted by mansio

Man molded from clay by a god is an age-old pagan myth.

The fact that some idea/theology is old does not make it any less valid. That's a logical fallacy. Remember, islam claims to be the original teachings since the beginning of time. Wouldn't it seem reasonable that the early Prophets of Islam spoke of creation from clay?

Secondly, you called the notion a 'pagan myth', both of which are unsubstatiated claims. Can you show me conclusive evidence that the theory of creation from clay has pagan origins? Can you show me how it is a myth?

I already discussed the creation from clay, with forum member root (atheist), and I've added that to the beginning of this discussion. Perhaps you should scroll back and read wrote.

Sometimes I wonder if I am not discussing with children.
The idea of man molded from clay doesn't need to come from God. God is so much smarter than that. Anybody can watch a potter molding a statue. By analogy, in the pagan cultures, that fact gave the idea of a god creating a human being that way.
Man created from clay is a pagan myth borrowed by the Bible and then by the Quran.
It's as simple as that.

Most Christians know it's a pagan myth but they take it in a figurative meaning, symbolically. So they are not in the least embarrassed in their faith by the discoveries of science.
Some on this forum believe Adam actually existed, not by their own discoveries, but because they are told so by the Quran. So that obliges them to distort reality to make it match with the Quran.

As man emerged about two millions years ago when did Adam live ? If you want to narrow the question down to Homo Sapiens, who emerged between half a million and a quarter million years, do it.

Some on this forum believe Adam actually existed, not by their own discoveries, but because they are told so by the Quran. So that obliges them to distort reality to make it match with the Quran.

I noticed too how quickly the thread was detroyed when we got to specifics regarding Adam.

Some on this forum believe Adam actually existed, not by their own discoveries, but because they are told so by the Quran. So that obliges them to distort reality to make it match with the Quran.

I agree with this too, and it is called "primatephobia".

Assalaamu Alaykum

Arwa Jazakallahu Khayr sister!

Originally Posted by mansio

Man created from clay is a pagan myth borrowed by the Bible and then by the Quran.
It's as simple as that.

LOL, you do realise that the BIBLE and the QURAN both came from God. Thus, the QURAN didn'tt copy the BIBLE as the information is the same - not copied.

If you listen to an answer, you will have no question.
The deal with Adam is that he was the first human on this planet. We can estimate that he was on this earth several thousand years ago. Thus, there can be no "argument" about his existence.
The argument was "destroyed" before it began. You guys are on an Islamic forum and are tryin to disprove the existence of one of the most important figures in Islam. Anytime we try to explain something to you, you ask us more questions. You are never satisfied with any answer and you never will be. Perhaps there is something missing in you soul? Ah I know what it is: faith.

The deal with Adam is that he was the first human on this planet. We can estimate that he was on this earth several thousand years ago. Thus, there can be no "argument" about his existence.

How can you estimate that. Several thousand is not the same as 500,000......

The argument was "destroyed" before it began. You guys are on an Islamic forum and are tryin to disprove the existence of one of the most important figures in Islam. Anytime we try to explain something to you, you ask us more questions. You are never satisfied with any answer and you never will be. Perhaps there is something missing in you soul? Ah I know what it is: faith.

Ah, faith...... I agree you cannot argue faith. If someone has faith that the sky is actually black then nothing and no ammount of evidence will sway his mind even if that meant he could no longer see what was in front of his eyes

How can you estimate that. Several thousand is not the same as 500,000......

ok i meant many thousands. my bad.

Ah, faith...... I agree you cannot argue faith. If someone has faith that the sky is actually black then nothing and no ammount of evidence will sway his mind even if that meant he could no longer see what was in front of his eyes

Faith doesn't make one blind. It gives them hope. It allows them to do things that they might never be able to do had they not had faith. Faith doesn't make one wrong - nor does it make them right. Faith is Faith.