~*I hope u r all in da best state of health 'N' iman inshallah*~

Jazaak allaah khriah

I’m doing an assignment about dis topic my self,, I did print out dis article thanx much appreciated

Sorry for the length of my response, the arguments presented to support the idea Mohammad was to be found in the Bible doesn't hold up. The best interpreter of the Bible is the Bible itself.

>Jesus repeatedly says, "I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel "

Jesus is saying that the Jews, the people of the Promise, were to be the first to hear the Gospel. The Jewish leadership rejected this Gospel, thus the way was opened for the Gospel to be preached those ouside the house of Israel.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Luk 24:45 Then He opened up their mind to understand the Scriptures,
Luk 24:46 and said to them, So it is written, and so the Christ must suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.
Luk 24:47 And repentance and remission of sins must be preached on His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

>coming with ten thousand saints, or holy men, descending upon Makkah, bearing a fiery law (the Glorious Qur’an) is an unmistakable reference to Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him.

Deu 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

The word for "Saints" in this passage could just as easily refer to Angels. This would have been a better translation.

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

"Again, when Moses on Mount Sinai desired to see the face of God Himself he was not permitted to do so, only to witness the glory of the LORD passing by: "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live" (Exodus 33:20). The Lord Jesus confirmed this when he said, "No man hath seen God at any time" (John 1:18). The angels therefore brought divine information to men and women, which they could not otherwise receive because of God's holiness and man's sinfulness."

http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/angels.htm#4


Gen 32:1 And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him.
Gen 32:2 And when Jacob saw them, he said, This is God's host: and he called the name of that place Mahanaim.

"The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place." (Psalm 68:17)

"Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure." (Psalm 103:20,21)

"Bless the LORD ... who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: who maketh his angels spirits: his ministers a flaming fire." (Psalm 104:1-4)


>Isaiah 42 makes a reference to this "servant of the Lord" as coming from the land of Kedar .

It does not, re-read the passage carefully.

Isa 42:10 Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.
Isa 42:11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.

This "servant of the Lord" , refered to in Isa 42:1 was Jesus. He said so himself -

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Isa 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.


Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 7:20 And having come to Him, the men said, John the Baptist sent us to You, saying, Are You the One coming, or should we expect another?
Luk 7:21 And in the same hour He healed many from diseases and plagues and evil spirits. And He gave to many blind ones ability to see.
Luk 7:22 And answering, Jesus said to them, Going, report to John what you saw and heard; that blind ones are seeing again, lame ones are walking about, leprous ones are being cleansed, deaf ones are hearing, dead ones are being raised, poor ones are preached the Gospel. (Isa. 35:5, 6; 61:1)
Luk 7:23 And blessed is he who is not offended in Me.


>Since Jesus (peace be upon him) indicates that the Counselor will not come unless Jesus himself, leaves, it is virtually impossible for the Counselor to be the Holy Ghost, as some Christian scholars contend.

Not so. Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as a person, not just the manifestation. of the power of God. The Counselor was to be given to the very disciples who heard this promise from Jesus, to endow them with power to preach the Gospel.

Luk 24:45 Then He opened up their mind to understand the Scriptures,
Luk 24:46 and said to them, So it is written, and so the Christ must suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.
Luk 24:47 And repentance and remission of sins must be preached on His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48 And you are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send forth the promise of My Father on you. But you sit in the city of Jerusalem until you are clothed with power from on high.

This promise was fulfilled in Acts -

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Greetings sinner,

Let's examine your response then

I've to disagree with that verse. This verse(s) were not the actual words of Jesus. This is explained in two folds:

1.Baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus.

2. The "Great Commission" was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost - see Mark 16:15. The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of I John 5:7. Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase "...there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" is definitely a "later addition" to Biblical test, and it is not found in any of today's versions of the Bible.

But let's ignore this extraneous point (not related to the prophecy) and discuss the prophecy.

The word is not ambigious at all.

Let's look at the verse(s)

KJV Deuteronomy 33
33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

In this verse, the Lord is bein' compared with the sun. Now, none of the Israelities or Jesus had any connection with Paran. In Genesis 21:21, it states that Hagar with her son Ishmael, wandererd in the wilderness of Beersheba and later on in the wilderness of Paran. Ismael married a Egyptian woman and she bore him a son named Kedar who then gave descent to the Arabs who are now the dwellers of Paran.

Ishmael inhabited the wilderness of Paran, where he fathered to Kedar, who is the ancestor of Arabs; and if the sons of Kedar had to receive revelation from God; if the flocks of Kedar had to come up with acceptance to a Divine alter to glorify “the house of my glory” where the darkness had to cover the earth for some centuries, and then that very land had to receive light from God; and if all the glory of Kedar had to fail and the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, had to diminish within a year after the one fled from the swords and from the bent bows…the Holy one from Paran (KJV Habakkuk 3:3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.) This is no one else, than Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad is the offspring of Ishmael through Kedar, who settled in the wilderness of Paran. Prophet Muhammad is the only prophet through whom the Arabs received the revelation. Through Prophet Muhammad God shone from Paran, and Makkah is the only place where the house of God is glorified and flocks of Kedar came up with acceptance on its alter.


Prophet Muhammad was persecuted by his people and he had to leave Makkah {to Madinah}. It was Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who was thirsty and fled from drawn swords and the bent bow, and within a year after his flight the descendants of Kedar met him at Badr {Battle of Badr} where children of Kedar and their number of archers diminished and the glory of Kedar failed.




The house of my glory' referred to in Isaiah 60 is the Kaba’h in Makkah not the so-called “Church of Jesus Christ.” The flocks of Kedar as mentioned in verse 7, have never come to any Church of Jesus Christ; and it is in fact that the village of Kedar and their inhabitants are the only people in the whole world who have remained impenetrable to any influence of the Christianity. Again, the mention of 10, 000 saints is Deuteronomy 33:3 is very significant. God shined forth from Paran, and he came with 10, 000 saints. One can read the whole history of the wilderness of Paran without finding any other event but the conquest of Makkah by the Prophet Muhammad with his 10, 000 followers (referred as saints in the prophecy) and reentered “the house of my glory.” He gave the fiery law to the world that reduced to ashes all other laws.


Sorry for the belated reply.

Peace

Isaiah 42 doesn't speak of a servant of the Lord coming from Kedar. The only thing it says about it is in verse 11, which reads:

I don't understand how Isaiah 21:13-17 applies to Mohammed.

The person who shined from Mount Paran was a manifestation of G-d, similar to the Burning bush, as revealed by the context:

Last reference from the Tanakh. You said that:

The transliteration is not entirely correct. מַחֲמַדִּים is pronounced "Mauch-chau-mau-deem". The "eem" ending denotes a masculine plural. It is the plural of the word מחמד "mauch-maud", which means pleasant, lovely, or desirable. If it were Mohammed's name, it would be vowalized differently and would not have a plural ending.

Peace!

Isaiah 42:

042:001 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles 042:002 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 042:003 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 042:004 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

042:006 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

042:008 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

The prophecy here is about the promised one who will be the elect and the favorite of God. Universal leadership and Divine guidance would be bestowed upon him. Furthermore, it states that he shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles (non-Jews). Before one applies this to Jesus, one should also bear in mind that these characteristics do not apply to Jesus at all. Jesus didn't establish any empire, nor did he sat on judgement over nations. Furthermore, the words "My Servant" is the translation for the name AbdAllah in Arabic which is one of the main titles of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

In addition, Jesus was not the servant/slave or bonds of God accordin' to the Christian belief. He was god himself or son of god and thus he is not the object of this prophecy.

Let's look at the term "elect". Elect is the translation of the Arabic word Mustafa (Chosen one) which is one of the many names of the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

The word spirit is also used in the sense of revelation from Allah. This is evidentily in the Qur'an:

"And thus We have sent to you (O Muhammad) Rooh (a revelation, and a
mercy) of Our Command. You knew not what is the Book, nor what is Faith?
But We have made it (this Qur'aan) a light wherewith We guide whosoever
of Our slaves We will. And verily, you (O Muhammad) are indeed guiding
(mankind) to the Straight Path (i.e. Allaah's religion of Islamic
Monotheism). The path of Allaah to Whom belongs all that is in the heavens
and all that is in the earth. Verily, all matters at the end go to
Allaah (for decision)" [al-Shoora 42:52-53]

And they ask you [O Muhammad] concerning the rooh [the spirit]. Say: ‘The rooh: it is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little.’ [al-Isra’ 17:85]

It's also stated in the prophecy:
He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

Obviously, this cannot be applied to Jesus 'cause accordin' to Christians; he was arrested and humiliated on the streets before his crucifixion.

However, it's mentioned in the authentic hadiths:

"Ata' Ibn Yasar narrated: I met 'Abdullah bin 'Umar bin 'Amr bin Al-'As and asked him: Tell me about the description of the Messenger of Allah which is mentioned in Torah." He replied, Yes. By Allah, he is mentioned Torah with his qualities found in the Quran as follows, O Prophet! We have sent you as a witness, and a giver of glad tidings, And a warner, and guardian of the illiterates. You are My slave and My Messenger. I have named you al-Mutawakkil (meaning Allahs dependent). You are neither discourteous, harsh, nor a noise-maker in the markets; You do not do evil to those Who do evil to you, but you deal With them with forgiveness and kindness. Allah will not let him die till he makes straight the crooked people by making them say: There is no god but Allah. With which will be opened blind eyes, and deaf ears and enveloped hearts (2125 Bukhari)

The third verse: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth is referrin' that the servant of God would be a King and a Judge. Jesus never had such qualities and he was not a judge nor sat in the judgement of the guilty. And the verse also claims that his law will endure till eternity. This indicates to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) since his deeds and words are still preserved 'till this day. Jews, Christians or any other nation cannot claim that they've preserved the words and/or deeds of their Prophet 'till now. Hence why the Muslim Ummah (Nation) are the only nation who successfully preserved it.

I'd also like to mention that when a new Prophet appears, the previous law would become annulled by the succeeding law and thus does not remain in perpetuity. Hence, why the perpetuity in the enformecement of Law can only possible when no more Prophets are to follow the former.

We read in the next verse:
He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) established judgement on earth in his life time and also gave glad tidings of the perfection of faith.

As we read in the Qur'an:
This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon You, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."(Qur'an. 5:3]

I'd also like to mention that the dwellers of Paran were promised a revelation and this is evidentily in Isaiah 42:11-13:

042:011 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.

042:12 Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands.

042:13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

The Lord in this context refers to His Word.

"The Lord came from Sanai" -- refers to Musa (peace be upon him) since had his vision of God there.
"and rose up from Seur unto them" -- Seir refers to mountains near the Dead Sea, an area which includes Bethlehem and Jerusalem (refers to Isa --peace be upon him) and Paran is where Makkah is located (birthplace of Prophet Muhammad)

The 10k saints refers to his followers who liberated Makkah in a bloodless victory.

Let's look at the full line:

חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם


"His mouth is most sweet: he is Muchamad the Great (מַחֲמַדִּי 1501. This is my Beloved, and this is my Friend, O daughters of Yerushalayim." Shir Ha'Shirim (Song of Songs) 5:16

The word מַחֲמַדִּ is not "mauch-maud" but Muhammadim. Furthermore, this plural suffix is an indication of grandeur, rather than plurality. Notice that there is no hebrew word for Muhammadim - hence the incorrect translation. Muhammadim is the plural of Mahamad (מַחְמ&#1464). The plural suffix at the end of Eloah demonstrates its grandeur which makes it Elohim. This is similiary to Mahamad which makes it Muhammadim. One cannot say "In the beginning Gods created the Heavens and Earth", the plural suffix has to come in to play in order to denote its grandeur.

Peace

Muhammadim, also I think the "im" at the end is used for respect in the hebrew language

Yes, that's right.

Hi Amir,

Perhaps it is because I am not completely fluent in Hebrew (yet), but I am unaware of any instances where the plural ending was added to a name to signify respect. Do you know of any other instances where this has happened?

Elohim?

Hi Kafadi,

Thanks for the quick response.
I don't identify this as Jesus - I am not a Christian.
Rather, these (and the other "servant" passages) are about Israel. Let's take a look at the context of Isaiah 42. Right before it begins, in Chapter 41, we read:

Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. [9] [Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away. (KJV)

Other verses in the "servant" passages identify this as Israel also:

[44:1] Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: [2] Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. (KJV)

[44:21] Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou [art] my servant: I have formed thee; thou [art] my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. (KJV)

[45:4] For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. (KJV)

[49:3] And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. (KJV)



While I don't agree with the Christian belief that this refers to Jesus, why would his humiliation cause this not to refer to him?

Where does this say that they will recieve a prophet? It seems to me that it is G-d telling them to praise him, and that G-d will destroy his enemies.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this part.

I'll get to the very last part in just a second.

That's actually a very good example, but I don't think that would apply because technically it is a title that refers to entities who rule and/or judge humanity. Angels, Kings, Judges, and G-d are all refered to as "Elohim", though almost always it refers to G-d. For example, in Psalms 82 corrupt judges are reffered to this way.

I'd be more comfortable accepting this idea if you could find it with a person's name. For example, instead of "Adam" have "Adamim".

Please refer to my latest post for my objection to the "im" ending.

But, for a hypothetical discussion, I will assume that translation is correct for the time being.

So we get a translation of "His mouth is most sweet; and he is altogether Mohammed(s). This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."

Why is Mohammed being mentioned in a passage that is part of a love song between King Solomon and his Wife?

Peace, Yoshiyahu.

Let's take a look at this verse:
Psalm 82:5-7*

They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
I said, "You are ELOHIM,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.

If I understand correctly, Elohim is being used to refer to mortals in this passage.

Peace Yoshiyahu,
I did some searching and i came up with some other Hebrew nouns that are plural in form but singluar in meaning. The following is a list. The masculine plural ending is 'im' and the feminine plural ending is 'oth'.

zequnim — old age (Gen. 21:2, 7; 37:3; 44:20).


ne`urim — youth. David was only a boy (na`ar), but Goliath "has been a fighting man from his youth [ne`urim]" (1 Sam. 17:33).


chayyim — life. This is used in the song "To life, to life, lechayyim" in Fiddler on the Roof.


gebhuroth — strength. The singular form gebhurah is the usual word for strength, but the plural form is used in Job 41:12.


tsedaqoth — righteousness. The singular form tsedaqah is the usual word, but tsedaqoth is used in Isaiah 33:15 — "he who walks righteously [or "in righteousness"]."


chokmoth — wisdom. Chokmah is the usual form, but chokmoth is used in Prov. 1:20.

'adonim — lord. 'adon means "lord," and 'adonim normally means "lords," but Isa. 19:4 says, "I will hand the Egyptians over to the power of a cruel master ['adonim]."

behemoth. This word normally means beasts, but in Job 40:15 it refers to one animal.

To me, 'adonim seems like the best comparison with Muhammadim.

For more information on the subject, consult Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, pages 396-401, 1909 edition.