LI Islamic Forum  
 
Powered by: MuslimPages
Add your business
 


Notices
Comparative religion Discussions about other religions in existence. Please keep it civil

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old
  (#16 (permalink))
Fighting4Iman
Fighting4Emaan
 
Fighting4Iman's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 15,937
Reputation: 47861
Rep Power: 91
Fighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Fighting4Emaan
Gender:Brother In Islam
Way of Life: Muslim
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-18-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Count DeSheep View Post
So Christianity and Judaism are acceptable?
no, christians and jews submit to other gods, not Allah

p
e
a
c
e
__________________
-Fighting for my Emaan-
-You Cant Hurt Me . I Can Only Hurt Myself -
   
Old
  (#17 (permalink))
Count DeSheep
Hi! =D
 
Count DeSheep's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 312
Reputation: 727
Rep Power: 16
Count DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Up, down, all around...XP
Way of Life: Undisclosed
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-18-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim View Post
no, christians and jews submit to other gods, not Allah
Psh. You might want to believe that, but Christians, Jews, and Muslims are united in the faith in the one and only god. We all worship the same being, believe in the same principles. Many Christians and Jews do not follow the guidelines so strictly as Muslims do, and there are a few minor differences in religious beliefs, but we still worship the same god.
   
Old
  (#18 (permalink))
Abu Sayyad
iwannagetmarried.com
 
Abu Sayyad's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 6,798
Reputation: 49319
Rep Power: 90
Abu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2005
Gender:Brother In Islam
Way of Life: Muslim
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Count DeSheep View Post
Psh. You might want to believe that, but Christians, Jews, and Muslims are united in the faith in the one and only god. We all worship the same being, believe in the same principles. Many Christians and Jews do not follow the guidelines so strictly as Muslims do, and there are a few minor differences in religious beliefs, but we still worship the same god.
You see, Chrisitans associate Jesus son of Mary and the Holy Spirit with God. They take Mary as an intercessor with God and that is associationism. And God has forbidden Paradise for anyone that associates anything as an equal with Him. The Jews associated partners with God when they took their Rabbi's words over Gods and they broke their covenant with God when they slew the Prophets that came to them. They rejected Jesus son of Mary and slandered his mother.

The Jews and the Chrisitans reject Muhammad and to believe in him and believe in everything that he brought is mandatory to enter Paradise and his coming was foretold in the previous scriptures as is confirmed by scholars from among them that came to Islam such as Abdullah ibn Salam.

Bottom line - Worship none but God, associate nothing with Him, believe in the final Messenger Muhammad, believe that Jesus son of Mary was no more than a human and a Messenger of God, and believe in the life after death and you will be successfull. It's really as simple as that.
__________________
هَلْ جَزَاء الْإِحْسَانِ إِلَّا الْإِحْسَانُ؟
Is there any reward for good other than good?
[ar-Rahman: 60]


"However, keep in mind that you must instruct the people with kindness and mercy. Don’t take this answer and shove it in their faces. Be kind, gentle and patient." - Imam Suhaib Webb, advising after giving an answer.

O Allah, Lord of Jibril, Mika'il and Israfil, Creator of the heavens and the earth, Knower of the unseen and the seen, You will judge between Your servants concerning that wherein they differ. Guide me with regard to that wherein there is dispute concerning the truth by Your leave, for You guide whomsoever You will to the straight path.
Oh Allah, I seek refuge in You lest I misguide others, or I am misguided by others, lest I cause others to err or I am caused to err, lest I abuse others or be abused, and lest I behave foolishly or meet with the foolishness of others.

   
Old
  (#19 (permalink))
Count DeSheep
Hi! =D
 
Count DeSheep's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 312
Reputation: 727
Rep Power: 16
Count DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Up, down, all around...XP
Way of Life: Undisclosed
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Madani View Post
You see, Chrisitans associate Jesus son of Mary and the Holy Spirit with God. They take Mary as an intercessor with God and that is associationism. And God has forbidden Paradise for anyone that associates anything as an equal with Him.
I've never heard of Christians saying Mary is equal to God. Ever. That's why they're called monotheists.

Quote:
The Jews and the Chrisitans reject Muhammad and to believe in him and believe in everything that he brought is mandatory to enter Paradise and his coming was foretold in the previous scriptures as is confirmed by scholars from among them that came to Islam such as Abdullah ibn Salam.
Few Christians even know who Muhammad is. They do not reject him, and they do not know anything about him, except maybe that he was the human founder of Islam. I'm Christian, but I accept Muhammad as a messenger/prophet of God. Then again, I'm also considering converting to Islam.

Quote:
Bottom line - Worship none but God, associate nothing with Him, believe in the final Messenger Muhammad, believe that Jesus son of Mary was no more than a human and a Messenger of God, and believe in the life after death and you will be successfull. It's really as simple as that.
Jesus...he's part of the reason why I'm considering converting. But I just read in the Bible today in church that when he was baptised, a voice from Heaven said that he was God's son. He always used "Son of Man" as a self-designation, and yet the entry on that phrase in that same Bible defines the phrase as meaning any human being. Hm.

God has manifested Himself in the form of a human before, has He not? What makes the idea of Him coming down more than once as human so ridiculous? He struggled with Jacob and then renamed him Israel, as I remember. Or maybe that was just an angel God sent. Can't remember anymore...
   
Old
  (#20 (permalink))
Abu Sayyad
iwannagetmarried.com
 
Abu Sayyad's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 6,798
Reputation: 49319
Rep Power: 90
Abu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2005
Gender:Brother In Islam
Way of Life: Muslim
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Count DeSheep View Post
I've never heard of Christians saying Mary is equal to God. Ever. That's why they're called monotheists.
Yes, but don't they seek her intercession? That is associationism. The Qur'an makes this clear:
10: 18 And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him.
Islam is pure, strict monotheism. All worship, supplication, actions are for God alone because He alone is worthy of having this done for Him.
Quote:
Few Christians even know who Muhammad is. They do not reject him, and they do not know anything about him, except maybe that he was the human founder of Islam.
That is why we are trying to spread this message of Islam to them. Those who genuinly never got the message of Islam, or were prevented from getting it have their reckoning with God who will give them a chance on the Day of Judgement.

Quote:
I'm Christian, but I accept Muhammad as a messenger/prophet of God. Then again, I'm also considering converting to Islam.
That's excellent news. I hope you accept Islam
Quote:
Jesus...he's part of the reason why I'm considering converting. But I just read in the Bible today in church that when he was baptised, a voice from Heaven said that he was God's son. He always used "Son of Man" as a self-designation, and yet the entry on that phrase in that same Bible defines the phrase as meaning any human being. Hm.
But what is the authentic proof that this happened? If Jesus son of Mary was truly the 'son' of God, why would he always say 'Son of Man' as you yourself stated?
3: 59 Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.
Don't allow yourself to be mislead by doubts and the whispering of Satan, you are heading in the right direction, take that step
Quote:
God has manifested Himself in the form of a human before, has He not? What makes the idea of Him coming down more than once as human so ridiculous? He struggled with Jacob and then renamed him Israel, as I remember. Or maybe that was just an angel God sent. Can't remember anymore...
I am not familiar with this story, but we believe that God can never manifest himself as part of His creation. It does not suit His Majesty. He is above such a thing, the created and the Creator can never be equal.
__________________
هَلْ جَزَاء الْإِحْسَانِ إِلَّا الْإِحْسَانُ؟
Is there any reward for good other than good?
[ar-Rahman: 60]


"However, keep in mind that you must instruct the people with kindness and mercy. Don’t take this answer and shove it in their faces. Be kind, gentle and patient." - Imam Suhaib Webb, advising after giving an answer.

O Allah, Lord of Jibril, Mika'il and Israfil, Creator of the heavens and the earth, Knower of the unseen and the seen, You will judge between Your servants concerning that wherein they differ. Guide me with regard to that wherein there is dispute concerning the truth by Your leave, for You guide whomsoever You will to the straight path.
Oh Allah, I seek refuge in You lest I misguide others, or I am misguided by others, lest I cause others to err or I am caused to err, lest I abuse others or be abused, and lest I behave foolishly or meet with the foolishness of others.

   
Old
  (#21 (permalink))
Count DeSheep
Hi! =D
 
Count DeSheep's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 312
Reputation: 727
Rep Power: 16
Count DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to beholdCount DeSheep is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Up, down, all around...XP
Way of Life: Undisclosed
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Madani View Post
Yes, but don't they seek her intercession? That is associationism. The Qur'an makes this clear:
10: 18 And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him.
Islam is pure, strict monotheism. All worship, supplication, actions are for God alone because He alone is worthy of having this done for Him.
I certainly don't see it. Mary was chosen by God to be the vessel that held Jesus's human body for nine months. So what? I suppose next you'll say that the Apostles were bad as well. We do not worship anyone but God. Although I have heard that Catholics pray to her or some other figure. I don't know why, and it is something that I haven't confirmed yet. In any case, that's only the Catholics, and not all Christians.

Quote:
But what is the authentic proof that this happened? If Jesus son of Mary was truly the 'son' of God, why would he always say 'Son of Man' as you yourself stated?
3: 59 Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.
Don't allow yourself to be mislead by doubts and the whispering of Satan, you are heading in the right direction, take that step
I'm guessing he either said that to put himself on the level with humans, to say that he was in human form and suffered as we do, or to say "I'm not God! Get it through your head!" in a polite way. In my experience, all religious texts are vague like that...>.<

Kinda funny that someone who believes in God would ask for authentic proof of something religious, considering religion is based on faith. =P

Quote:
I am not familiar with this story, but we believe that God can never manifest himself as part of His creation. It does not suit His Majesty. He is above such a thing, the created and the Creator can never be equal.
Bleh. I believe God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. I think that He has come down as human, multiple times apparently, to do things that we might not be able to understand. I have seen no evidence to the contrary.
   
Old
  (#22 (permalink))
Abu Sayyad
iwannagetmarried.com
 
Abu Sayyad's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 6,798
Reputation: 49319
Rep Power: 90
Abu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond reputeAbu Sayyad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2005
Gender:Brother In Islam
Way of Life: Muslim
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Count DeSheep View Post
I certainly don't see it. Mary was chosen by God to be the vessel that held Jesus's human body for nine months. So what? I suppose next you'll say that the Apostles were bad as well. We do not worship anyone but God. Although I have heard that Catholics pray to her or some other figure. I don't know why, and it is something that I haven't confirmed yet. In any case, that's only the Catholics, and not all Christians.
The thing is that, no matter how long she held Jesus's body she is still a human and does not have a share in divinity. To take her, or anyone for that matter as an intercessor with God is the very associationism that the Prophet Muhammad came to end.
Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever. [Quran 39/3]
Quote:
I'm guessing he either said that to put himself on the level with humans, to say that he was in human form and suffered as we do, or to say "I'm not God! Get it through your head!" in a polite way. In my experience, all religious texts are vague like that...>.<
He Who created Adam without a father or a mother is able to create Jesus son of Mary, as well, without a father. If the claim is made that `Jesus son of Mary is Allah's son because he was created without a father, then the same claim befits Adam even more. However, since such a claim regarding Adam is obviously false, then making the same claim about Jesus son of Mary is even more false. Furthermore, by mentioning these facts, Allah emphasizes His ability, by creating Adam without a male or female, Hawa' from a male without a female, and Jesus son of Mary from a mother without a father, compared to His creating the rest of creation from male and female.
Quote:
Kinda funny that someone who believes in God would ask for authentic proof of something religious, considering religion is based on faith. =P
I asked for proof whether the story is authentic or not. In Islam, our Qur'an, and the narrations from the Messenger can be traced back to him. There are chains of narrations for everything that we know to be from Muhammad (saw). Therefore, faith is required for something such as Life after Death, but proof is required if a statement or a story is attributed to the Messenger.

Quote:
Bleh. I believe God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. I think that He has come down as human, multiple times apparently, to do things that we might not be able to understand. I have seen no evidence to the contrary.
Of course God can do whatever He wills whenever He wills. But the question is did He do it? So I say what I said before, it does not suit His Majesty. He is above such things.
3: 47 ...When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is.
__________________
هَلْ جَزَاء الْإِحْسَانِ إِلَّا الْإِحْسَانُ؟
Is there any reward for good other than good?
[ar-Rahman: 60]


"However, keep in mind that you must instruct the people with kindness and mercy. Don’t take this answer and shove it in their faces. Be kind, gentle and patient." - Imam Suhaib Webb, advising after giving an answer.

O Allah, Lord of Jibril, Mika'il and Israfil, Creator of the heavens and the earth, Knower of the unseen and the seen, You will judge between Your servants concerning that wherein they differ. Guide me with regard to that wherein there is dispute concerning the truth by Your leave, for You guide whomsoever You will to the straight path.
Oh Allah, I seek refuge in You lest I misguide others, or I am misguided by others, lest I cause others to err or I am caused to err, lest I abuse others or be abused, and lest I behave foolishly or meet with the foolishness of others.

   
Old
  (#23 (permalink))
Keltoi
LI Addict
 
Keltoi's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 5,098
Reputation: 7716
Rep Power: 29
Keltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond reputeKeltoi has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Gender:Brother In Humanity
Way of Life: Christian
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Christians do not see Mary as divine by any definition of the word. She is an important figure in Christendom by the fact that she was mother of Jesus Christ, but beyond that she is never considered to be divine. Catholics probably put more emphasis on the mother of Christ than other denominations, but they don't consider Mary to be divine either.
__________________
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
   
Old
  (#24 (permalink))
vpb
Ummah Under 1 Banner
 
vpb's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,993
Reputation: 4400
Rep Power: 25
vpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2005
Gender:Brother In Islam
Way of Life: Muslim
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
If there must be a creator, who created the creator?
the thing is that you're asking this question from a human point of view. our imagination is very limited. everything we do in this world is based on a shape,color....etc. the term 'creation' is taught to you, and is part of your imagination, but your imagination cannot go beyond that.
if I ask you could you model me another way of life, you would still come up with something like "cells, organs, ..." using terms and stuff that we know. we can't model a life, something new, without using life terminologies , something like we've never seen before, and actually it would not work bc we wouldn't understand it. so when you say who created then God, this is your limited imagination (human imagination), bc probably outside our imagination, the term creation doesn't even exist. and Allah swt is able to do anything, and his knowledge is perfect. He has created things that match with our nature, that we can understand. This some sort of question like:
"can God create a rock that he can't hold it", so in this case we use our limited imagination bc we think that Allah swt knows only to make gravity, probably outside our world, in Allah's knowledge there is some other type of thing, which is nothing like gravity, so if Allah want he can disappear the term of "mass or gravity" and it doesn't exist anymore, and the question would not make sense anymore.

you get what i'm sayin. and please don't ask these kind of questions. cuz they're funny
__________________
What a Chicken S way out.

Don't start fights that you are not willing to finish.

Learning about the Tawheed of Allah (swt) is the most important thing for the whole humanity !!!




   
Old
  (#25 (permalink))
wilberhum
Account Disabled
 
wilberhum's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,818
Reputation: 6956
Rep Power: 0
wilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA
Gender:Brother In Humanity
Way of Life: Agnostic
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
you get what i'm sayin. and please don't ask these kind of questions. cuz they're funny
Funny? Why?
One of the arguments that many theists use is that every thing comes from some thing else. Therefore there must be a created. I’m just pointing out that I find that conclusion erroneous. Using the same logic, the creator needs a creator.
So it is just as valid to say the creator was the energy of the big bang.
Not what I believe, just pointing out what I conceder faulty logic.
   
Old
  (#26 (permalink))
Fighting4Iman
Fighting4Emaan
 
Fighting4Iman's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 15,937
Reputation: 47861
Rep Power: 91
Fighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond reputeFighting4Iman has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Fighting4Emaan
Gender:Brother In Islam
Way of Life: Muslim
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

everything is created BUT the creator.

theres your answer
__________________
-Fighting for my Emaan-
-You Cant Hurt Me . I Can Only Hurt Myself -
   
Old
  (#27 (permalink))
wilberhum
Account Disabled
 
wilberhum's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,818
Reputation: 6956
Rep Power: 0
wilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA
Gender:Brother In Humanity
Way of Life: Agnostic
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim View Post
everything is created BUT the creator.

theres your answer
Again, very standard response.
Logic tells you ....... till the logic fails and that is where god comes in.
   
Old
  (#28 (permalink))
vpb
Ummah Under 1 Banner
 
vpb's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,993
Reputation: 4400
Rep Power: 25
vpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond reputevpb has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2005
Gender:Brother In Islam
Way of Life: Muslim
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007

Quote:
Funny? Why?
One of the arguments that many theists use is that every thing comes from some thing else. Therefore there must be a created. I’m just pointing out that I find that conclusion erroneous. Using the same logic, the creator needs a creator.
So it is just as valid to say the creator was the energy of the big bang.
Not what I believe, just pointing out what I conceder faulty logic.
dude, there can't be a creator of a creator, it does not make sense , there cannot be a creator[1] of a creator[2], bc then the creator[2] would not be a creator but a creation. the root of everything comes from the creator. the word itself 'creator' tells that he created and he can't be created . Creator[1] is a the devisor. How can someone ie. Creator[2] create a creator[1] that is a deviser? than the the one who created Creator[1] is the deviser, not the creator[1]. and we come to the conclusion that we don't call Creator[1] a creator but a creation.
i don't know if you've ever used unix systems but it's like that
/home/user/ , we know that the folder user belongs to home, and home to / . but / does not belong to anywhere. it's the last point, you can't go beyond that folder cuz it's the root which holds everything. or maybe like Windows, you can go beyond the C:, which you go the hard drive as a whole, but you can't go beyond that. see
__________________
What a Chicken S way out.

Don't start fights that you are not willing to finish.

Learning about the Tawheed of Allah (swt) is the most important thing for the whole humanity !!!





Last edited by vpb; 03-19-2007 at 06:55 PM.
   
Old
  (#29 (permalink))
wilberhum
Account Disabled
 
wilberhum's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,818
Reputation: 6956
Rep Power: 0
wilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond reputewilberhum has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA
Gender:Brother In Humanity
Way of Life: Agnostic
Default Re: A Message To The Non-Muslims. - 03-19-2007