Originally Posted by barney

51 :47 And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

It's amazing how flexible the language of scripture becomes when faced with new discovery.

this has been discussed here before ( I believe on this very thread even?).. but here it is again for your viewing pleasure, I took the liberty to translate before with sources from dictionary although I think my translation was adequate... Arabic is an impregnable language.. You can't tamper with it. You'll have to modify yourself, not vice versa! you want to take it on, be my guest!

Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia

وَسَّعَ a derivative of the word لَمُوسِعُونَ for any native speakers if you strip it of the Lam the meem (deeming us) ( the polite version) contrast to someone using vous or Tu in French will know that Vous denotes respect while tu is the vernacular.. that isn't the point here but thought I'd add it to the one who questions why G-D speaks in a particular tongue first person or third person...
وَسَّعَ from لَمُوسِعُونَ

space , split , let , broaden , dedicate , open out , widen , space out , clear a passage for , make wide or spacious , open up , make room for , make wide or spacious , step aside for , expand

described here as a (fi3l) i.e verb

you can use this online dictionary, though deficient it serves its purpose if you can understand a word that is un-conjugated , but given that three of four sources already attesting to "expansion and وَسَّعَ" aren't sufficient and everyone is oh such a textual expert .. if you don't wish to shell out big bucks for a proper dictionary... you can see in plain site it says expand... http://dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidi...A&sub=????????

peace

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post722505 (The scientific miracles of the Quran.)

I've got a fiver on the last two translations being translated post discovery-of -expanding -universe.

وَسَّعَ from لَمُوسِعُونَ

space , split , let , broaden , dedicate , open out , widen , space out , clear a passage for , make wide or spacious , open up , make room for , make wide or spacious , step aside for , expand

not to mention when you have so many different meanings to a word.

Originally Posted by barney

I've got a fiver on the last two translations being translated post discovery-of -expanding -universe.

who gives a fig what you think? do you speak Arabic? I am sure all the dictinaries are rigged to be in concert with what you really want to believe...
Get a life will you?

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

وَسَّعَ from لَمُوسِعُونَ

space , split , let , broaden , dedicate , open out , widen , space out , clear a passage for , make wide or spacious , open up , make room for , make wide or spacious , step aside for , expand

not to mention when you have so many different meanings to a word.

So you list the definitions of the word it's "derived" from and then assume all are possible interpretations for the verse :s

That's like saying the word "atheism" could mean "God" because it's derived from the greek "theoi" (god).

Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah

So you list the definitions of the word it's "derived" from and then assume all are possible interpretations for the verse :s

That's like saying the word "atheism" could mean "God" because it's derived from the greek "theoi" (god).

And Brothers, let it be known unto you this day that Energy is equal to mass times the speed of light multiplied unto itself, and that energy and mass are interchangeable: one and the same, as are the pull of the Earth and the pull of gathering momentum....

In English?

It has to say this stuff unambiguously.

"seven heavens" just isn't going to cut it, nor "round Earth," when the circumference of the Earth had already been calculated fairly accurately.

The Quran indicates that there are signs in the unverse around us to lead us to the truth of God. It is true that there are indications, but I don't believe Quran contains any absolute irrefutable objective proofs, though the indications it contains can be very convincing, and to deny it may force you to admit some very strange 'coincidences'.

Many of the incidences that Muslims quote as 'absolute scientific evidence that the Quran is true', are not quite that absolute, and the Muslims who quote them end up looking like fools to the non-Muslims who disprove their claims. Islam is a religion based on faith, not absolute proofs.

Any 'proof' for which an alternate explanation can be found, is reduced from the level of a proof, to a very convincing coincidence.

Lets take the expansion of the Universe proof first. While grammatically, it can mean 'and we are constantly expanding it', it can also mean 'and we are the expander'.

And as for the end of the Universe physics, well it is good, but the ayaat refer to the end of the world, which according to the Quran appears to coincide with the end of the universe. Now the end of the universe as calculated by physicists, and described as the Big Crunch, will occur many millions of years after our sun goes supernova, taking out Earth and all humanity with it.

As for the splitting asunder of the Heavens and the Earth, there is a riwayat where a man came to Abdullah bin Umar RA to ask him an explanation for this ayat and so he sent him to Abdullah bin Abbas RA, who explained it as a metaphor, that the earth was 'sewn together', that it was barren, and that the sky was 'sewn together', that it would not rain, and then Allah ripped it asunder, that is, made the sky rain and the earth grow plants.
Now, I'm not saying that this tafseer is necessarily the best possible, I'm just saying that an alternate explanation exists.

And lastly, in the last proof, noor is discribed as reflected light, while the sun and the stars are discribed as actual sources of light. This creates a problem because in the ayat 'Allaho noor us Samawaati wal Ard' 'Allah is the noor of the heavens and the Earth', Allah is described as noor. If noor is reflected light, then whose light is Allah reflecting?
(The traditional tafseers often explain this by saying that noor means light, and Allah is the guiding light of all the beings in the Heavens and Earth.)

Originally Posted by Gubbleknucker

And Brothers, let it be known unto you this day that Energy is equal to mass times the speed of light multiplied unto itself, and that energy and mass are interchangeable: one and the same, as are the pull of the Earth and the pull of gathering momentum....

There are absolute limitations in physical laws that humans understand. why would Qur'an say E = MC2 if the formulae itself is not applicable in all circumstances, all the time?
Two centuries ago people thought Newtonian physics is all that govern the universe until Einstein proved their limits with his relativity theories, which still need to be supplemented by quantum dynamics/quantum mechanics laws to work on quantum level. Who knows what else we will find out in two centuries from now?

While Quran says:
And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

This statement that the universe is expanding is true from the Big bang until now. So what is unambiguous about this?

Originally Posted by Gubbleknucker

It has to say this stuff unambiguously.

"seven heavens" just isn't going to cut it, nor "round Earth," when the circumference of the Earth had already been calculated fairly accurately.

If you care to read the posts on the first few pages you would know that in the Qur'an it is said that the earth has "diameters", instead of a "diameter"

^ round with multiple diameters = ellipse

Salam!

It has to say this stuff unambiguously.

"seven heavens" just isn't going to cut it, nor "round Earth," when the circumference of the Earth had already been calculated fairly accurately.

or have they at that time? have it been checked lately? im not 100% sure but i believe it will not be the same figure as it was before. a lot of issues have been reported, the sea level is rising, the polar reservoir is diminishing, the plates are moving (my country, the philippines, have separate tectonic plate and it is reported that it is subducting the china/japan plate at 40mm/year, in a millenium they will be our neighbors) and last but not the least volcanic eruptions that brings our materials from beneath the earth and remained in the surface after the eruption...............does these not mean expansion????

im not quite sure about this but it leads me to think the earth as well as the universe is expanding as revealed in the Qur'an. I believe it so, basing on some observations i enumerated above, the earth is expanding, slowly, very slowly. hehe, you wouldn't imagine the earth expanding very quickly brother. it would be like living in a rollercoaster if that would be the case. i just wonder if there have been a latest survey and to compare it to what is measured before.



Allahu Al-Basit (Allah, the Expander)
La Ilaha Illa Allah.

This is confirmation bias.

This stuff will re-enforce the beliefs of a muslim. It won't be convincing to anybody else.