Salaam/peace;


few lines from other forums....some comments are interesting like the concept of hell in liberal Protestantism ; few comments may hurt ur feelings specially if u have lost ur baby.

In that case , pl. pl.don't read.



Do Babies Automatically go to Heaven? By: K. B. Napier


Bible Theology


Ministriesinfo@christiandoctrine.net


http://www.christiandoctrine.net



.........Can you see the problem with saying a child can enter heaven without first having his sin dealt with and his earthly salvation assured? The problem is that we then make that child equal with Christ, sinless and without corruption.



Scripture tells us that, apart from Adam and Eve, only Jesus was born sinless...... Look at John 3, verse 3. Jesus said: “...Except (or, ‘unless’) a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (The word ‘cannot’ means, he is ‘incapable of’).


And in verse 7 He says, “Marvel not that I say unto thee, Ye must be born again.”





This is no choice and there are no alternatives..... All of us who pastor would dearly love to spare a parent from the hard facts presented here, but we cannot. By far the best way to deal with this matter is to teach the full truth at a time when there is no loss, so that parents are prepared at least mentally if such a terrible thing as child-death occurs.




However, what concerns me is when reformed men teach the automatic heaven-ward path of a small child as a sign of their own inwardly-held belief.


I can partially understand the desire not to increase the burden of a bereaved parent, by saying something soothing...but to claim it to be a part of scriptural teaching is yet another matter, of gravest importance, because it totally undermines the true gospel.



But, what of this ‘age of responsibility’? As we have already intimated, this is a Roman Catholic teaching, not a Biblical one.... If all children go to heaven, then what of “Ye are of (your) father the devil...”? (John 8:44)....


In an effort to comfort the bereaved they often say things that are unscriptural. This is particularly so if the dead person is an unborn or young child. What minister has the courage to teach what scripture says in such circumstances?


I know of none!

&&


Asimov's Message Board: Political/Religious Discussion: Nobody limbo (warning high Catholicism content)



One problem though with removal is that traditionally in Catholicism the competing view was that unbaptized babies go straight to Hell. (St. Augustine, Biblical statements on the unbaptized)



The idea they may go to Heaven is possible as they're "invincibly ignorant", but it would be a bit of a break from history.




The other worry I have is this notion the Church is doing it to compete with Islam in Africa. Islam does not have a concept of original sin and in any event "competing with them" should inspire any statement on anything.... In liberal Protestantism that seems to mean Heaven is not too hard to get into and the only people in Hell are like child-murderers, but even then Hell isn't so bad anyway.




You don't have God and your separated from those you knew who did, but you can make new friends and do alright. (I'm not making this up, I have heard this view from ministers)


Then the conservative Protestant view seems to be that most people are ****ed and that includes everyone who dies unbaptized.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2297...n-in-hell.html

Dear Muslim Woman,

Please forgive my bluntness, but seeing some of the websites that you have accessed, I wonder if perhaps you have some special concern or question that is specific to your own life. I note the reference to babies that have died. I hope this is not something that you have experienced, but I know many (including my own mother) who have. May you find God's grace and peace in whatever trials you find testing you in this life. And may God guide you through them to a successful conclusion with him for you and all your household (past, present, and future).

As to the sites you have found, let me just say that there are those who are good theologians and there are those who are bad theologians in all faiths. From the internet is it hard to determine in advance which are which. So, I guess you just have to read through them both and then see which seems to better describe the God you know to be true. Personally, I think that Mr. K. B. Napier's theology lacks in several areas, but I don't think this thread is the place for me refute his views regarding babies, so I won't take up space doing that here. If you have specific questions or concern that deal with your personal life, you may prefer to PM me. I will certainly treat any such conversations in confidence.

Peace be with you.

Blessings All,

I know its slightly off topic but I got this today Its true & It will bless you.

A Muslim man in Egypt killed his wife and then buried her with their
infant
baby and 8-year old daughter. The girls were buried alive! He then
reported
to the police that an uncle killed the kids. 15 days later, another
family
member died. When they went to bury him, they found the 2 little girls
under the sand - ALIVE! The country is outraged over the incident, and
the
man will be executed. The older girl was asked how she had survived. "A
man
wearing shiny white clothes, with bleeding wounds in his hands, came
every
day to feed us. He woke up my mom so she could nurse my sister," she
said.
She was interviewed on Egyptian national TV, by a veiled Muslim woman
news
anchor. She said on public TV, "This was none other than Jesus, because
nobody else does things like this!" Muslims believe Isa (Jesus) would
do
this, but the wounds mean He really was crucified, and it's clear also
that
He is alive! But, it's also clear that the child could not make up a
story
like this, and there is no way these children could have survived
without a
true miracle. Muslim leaders are going to have a hard time to figure
out
what to do with this, and the popularity of the Passion movie doesn't
help!
With Egypt at the centre of the media and education in the Middle East,
you
can be sure this story will spread... Christ is still turning the world
upside down! Please let this story be shared. The Lord says, "I will
bless
the person who puts his trust in me." Jeremiah 17:7 Please let this
story
be shared.

^^Uhh ok..

Salaam/peace ;


& peace be with you , brother. Thank you sooooooo:okay: oooooooo much for ur concern.

Jazak Allah ( may God reward you , Ameen. ).


I hope, ur dear mom will be able to meet her kid in Paradise whom she lost in this world.

Salaam/peace;



We ( Muslims ) do love & respect Jesus (p) ; also , we believe that he perfomed many miracles by the will of God. We believed he performed miracles as a newborn baby ....that story u won't find in Bible.


If really Jesus (p) is now in this world , it means Last Day is not too far as we believe he will come back before the Last Day. I will be very happy if in my life time , Jesus (p) comes back.......but he is supposed to come back in Syria ......how come he is in Cairo ?


U believe this story is a solid ' proof ' that He really was crucified ??? Even if it's , what's the proof Jesus (p) died on the cross ? Or let's say that , ok he died on the cross but how it proves that he is God ?


I read in a news that every year , in Phillipines , some Chrsitians hang themselves on the cross & stay there for 1 or 2 days but normally they don't die ......keep there alive.



Can u give us the link of the story ? Why police did not post mortem the ' dead bodies ' when they were informed that Uncle killed the kids ? They arrested anybody ? A man all alone carried 1 dead body & buried 1 dead +2 living human being in the grave & no one was around ?

I suggest that post a more reliable story ...this is not convincing enough

wow im amazed by the way u think......

LOL

Well, today I met a friend who drives a truck (a semi-tractor/trailer) for a living. He had a fire in it and lost the whole rig. At first he thought not one thing in the cab survived, and then he saw in the midst of the ashes his Bible that he always carries with him. He showed it to me. The pages were sihnged on the outside edges, but the words on the pages remained untouched and in perfect condition. He took that as a sign of God protecting his Word.

Of course, someone else could say that that's just the way books burn (though other books in the truck did not survive).

There is no proof convincing enough for those who have resolved not to believe and none is need for those who already do. I belief this could be said by Christians to Muslims regarding Christian proofs of the Bible and by Muslims to Christians regarding Muslim proofs of the Qu'ran.

How about a link to that peice of news

Thanks for the invitation. I will try to break up my impressions into small posts as I get time. Large posts take too much time to digest and are less likely to be read. Remember I am sharing what I feel I have learned and my conclusions.

The first conclusion I have come to is that a Muslim says they believe in the Gospel because the Quran tells them to say it. If a Muslim asked me if I believed in the Quran, and I said yes, and it became apparent through further questioning that I had never read it, and no idea what it contained, and felt that the existing copy was corrupt and in fact not worthy of study, I would think they would be reasonable in questioning the truthfulness of my answer.

As I Christian, I can feel free to read the Quran and compare its teaching with the Bible, and to ask other Christians how they would interpret a verse in the Quran without fear of animosity. I have to admit that I don't feel Muslims are free to do the opposite, that is study the Bible in comparison with the Quran. Why do I say that? Here's one sample of a simple exchange from recent postings.

Question:
Here's the corresponding answer:
I think this answer would be close to violating this rule:

If you are referring to my friend and his Bible that survived though everything else in the truck was burned. There is no link. There is no news article. There is just my friend, his burned truck, and a Bible that I saw with my own eyes. I didn't even see the truck, I just take his word for it that nothing else survived.

But that isn't the point. My point is that while I find it an incredible story and very heartwarming even. I don't really expect it to mean anything to anyone who doesn't already view the Bible as the true word of God. Rather it would just be one more story to either be doubted or explained away and likely will only be appreciated by practicing Christians.

--- I think , u r unnecessarily becoming too ' emotional' .

I asked when Christians first heard/read that Muslims respect Jesus (p) & what was the feeling then ? What it has to do anything with what Muslims think about Bible ?



We do believe that original Bible is from God but later it has been changed . How come , this belief can prevent u to express ur opinion about Quran & Muslims ?



I did not find any nasty language in the post u mentioned. It was a very good advice from a revert bro to a Muslim sis that '' Do I as a Muslim need to interpret this?" As a Muslim , i liked this advice & also gave him a reputation


oooopssss , hope u r not angry ?

So, pl. feel free to tell us when u knew about our faith in Jesus (p) as a blessed Prophet of God Almighty?

I'm not at all mad or emotional. I obviously misinterpreted the invitation. I was speaking about my impressions of Islam and Muslim beliefs after doing some research to find out why the people I encountered answered the way they did. To be honest, I have learned much from this forum and I feel I will be better able to communicate the Gospel to those I encounter, whether they are Muslim or not. In any case, since I misinterpreted the invitation, I will also go into hiding until I again suffer the disease of the prophets:

Jeremiah 20:9 Then I said, "I will not make mention of Him, Nor speak anymore in His name." But His word was in my heart like a burning fire Shut up in my bones; I was weary of holding it back, And I could not.