Greeting, all.

I am posting this, after having read the above post.

The saying 'Hate the sin, but love the sinner' is quite commonly used in Christianity, but I must admit that I was slightly surprised to read it in an Islamic context.

From a Christian perspective I interpret the saying to mean the following:

• To be forgiving towards those who wrong me
• To be aware that we are all sinners, therefore I am not better than the next person - in comparison to God we all fall short!
• To never give up on people who are engaged in 'sinful' behaviours, to continue walking with them, talking with them, praying for them (as others do for me)

Would that interpretation be acceptable in Islam?

The reason I am asking is that it doesn't seem to add up, when I hear about Islamic rulings which call for the stoning of adulterous women, and the hanging of men who are actively gay.
Killing people seems in direct contrast to loving them.

The only way it would make sense was if the killing of the sinful person was actually seen as an act of love towards them ...
Is that the case?
Can somebody help me understand this?

Bumping this up ...

I'm not talking here for Islam, for I might say something wrong 'cause I'm on a hurry, but your comparsion to the Islamic rulings and that quote made me think this way, so these are my own thoughts mixed with many things I guess.

You hate the sin, yes. You do not hate the sinner, 'cause we all make mistakes, sure. Hate is a strong word. But that doesn't mean you do not punish the sinner for the hateful sin that is committed. Neither does it need to mean you do it out of love, to punish that is.

Just my thoughts, inshaAllah someone else will give you a good answer.

It appears that some Muslims have invented the phrase 'hate the sin, not the sinner' independently from Jesus (peace be upon him), but it might not be true...

Disclaimer: This post was made solely for the purpose of conquering the most recent posts. If it lacks content, don't bother complaining to me...

Thank you both, for your comments.
Thank you, Al-Saara. I appreciate that these are your personal views.

I understand that you can love somebdoy, but still punish them ...
Is it then the case, that the punishment in Islam is carried out as an act of love, you think?
I can punish my children for some small dismeanor, knowing that I am doing so as a loving and responsible mother - are executions of sinners in Islam carried out with a similar attitude?
I suppose there is a difference, which lies in the finality of executing somebody.

Thank you, Fishman.

I have tried googling Dr. Tahir Ul Qadri. It sounds like he is a reputable and well liked scholar. Do you know if that is the case?

Peace

You are most welcome.

No, what I was saying is you can punish someone without getting those feelings of love or hate involved, acccording to me that is.
A judgde does that, he/she follows the rules that have been set and punishes according to it (well then there can be emotional things involved etc, but if we keep it real simple now).

When you punish, you do it 'cause the person was disobedient to the rules, isn't it like that? You show what happens when you do not follow the rules.

A mother to a child is much different, there is love involved, while when giving out an judgment it is according to what one has done wrong, I guess as I already said it's more to show to others 'this is what happens if you don't listen'.

This concept is foreign to my understanding of Islam. Punishment for certain acts - 100 lashes for fornication, stoning for adultery, cutting off hand for stealing, execution for murder - is not done in a "spirit of love".

It puzzled me too, Mustafa.
That's why I asked the question.
I will try to find out more about in which context Dr. Tahir Ul Qadri used the expression.

Peace

How do you define 'spirit of love'? A mother smacking the hand of her child who is constantly reaching for the fire, is not love because it involved a form of punishment? To show a certain act is abhorrent to islam it needs to be met with punishment as a lesson to the offender as well as a deterrent to others. This does not mean the offender should be ostracized thereon. Neither should one consider himself superior to the offender and harbour hatred in his heart. He should be treated like any other. That is the 'spirit of love' that is the islamic concept of hating the sin - not the sinner. Hating the sinner would lead to more evil if this principle is neglected.

A mum who smacks her child who cant speak or understand,if theyre about to stick their hand into a plug socket. That soulds like a act of desperation to protect the child. So it's in the end loving.

A Mum who follows scripture and stones their child to death for disrespecting her (deutronomy 21:18), might not have quite so firm a basis that their act was a loving one.

So what is Sin?

Glo, I heard that expression from another friend. I'll try to get more information on it for you.

EDIT: It's also in someone's signature here, in the first post:

http://www.pakin.no/discuss/topic.asp?tid=7550&fid=19

EDIT 2: Also, there seems to be a discussion from post 7 (hate the sin, not the sinner) in here:

http://www.therevival.co.uk/node/1781?page=1

Edit 3:

Source

Yeh we agree with these... *someone correct me if I'm wrong*

I don't think it is as simple as yes we agree or no we dont agree.

In some cases we agree and in some cases we dont, it depends.

That isn't, no. The "spirit of love" part of it comes before that. Contrary to popular belief, we must not hasten to punish people. Punishment should be seen as an absolute last resort, but that's a rant for another day, and another member with better knowledge of Islamic jurisprudence than I.