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  • can some one explain chirstianity ..

    I am trying to educate myself more about christiantiy and what they believe but I am not quite sure where to start..


    what is the holy book they refer to ... i know it is the bible, but which one? why are there different books by matthew or paul etc?

    Where should I start?

  • #2
    Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..



    Bro, I like your enthusiasm for knowledge but considering the other questions you've asked previously, I wouldn't really encourage you to go towards the Bible. Now is not the time for you to go that lane. Use all of this time with either the Qur'an or the Ahadeeth or sayings/events of our righteous ancestors. When I started researching, for the outside of Islam part, I relied only on Dr. Zakir Naik and Ahmed Deedat for it. Don't start reading the Bible, watch lectures by those two extraordinary gentlemen.

    If Allah helps you, none can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, who is there after Him that can help you? And in Allah (Alone) let believers put their trust.
    Surah Ale Imran : 160

    It was narrated that Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
    The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) climbed up Uhud, accompanied by Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan, and the mountain shook with them. He struck it with his foot and said: “Stand firm, O Uhud, for there is no one on you but a Prophet or a Siddeeq or two martyrs.”
    Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3483)

    Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Taala) does not inspire seeking forgiveness in a slave whom he wishes to punish.
    Ali (RadhiAllahu Anhu)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

      Christians worship Isa (PBUH) as God, if that doesn't satisfy your heart or mind then I wouldn't waste my time on a religion of contradiction, pagan practices and no real sense of jurisprudence.
      The so-called 'death of Jesus' has different accounts in each of their bibles, his last words the same story, half of the actions attributed to him are made up by scribes whose writing isn't congruent.



      If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.اتبع طرق الهدى ولا يضرك قلة السالكين
      وإياك وطرق الضلالة ولا تغتر بكثرة الهالكين




      Comment


      • #4
        Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

        I just want to know purely for comparative purposes... I have watched zakir naik and ahmad deedat and their debates against Christians but I just want to get an understanding of it for my own...

        I was on a chirstian forum earlier just going through some of the stuff they talk about and they seem so convinced with their religion while making claims about islam that it is a religion of hate/violence..

        i just want too see the common ground between the 2 religions and where we part...

        Mashallah i am very content and firmly believe in Islam and Inshallah that will never change.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

          try youtubing Bart Eherman he's a christian scholar and historian he'll teach you alot, or the converts on the board. Like br. Mustafa



          If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.اتبع طرق الهدى ولا يضرك قلة السالكين
          وإياك وطرق الضلالة ولا تغتر بكثرة الهالكين




          Comment


          • #6
            Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

            okay, but could you explain why there are many different books? do they all mean the same things?

            what is the psalms? or the book of matthews or james or paul, the new testament the OT?

            is there one main book i can pick up and read to understand chirstianity? or do I have to go searching different books to get its meaning?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

              different books is your best bet. The psalms are from the old testament they're what the Quran refers to as Zabur.. some are ok, the rest are filled with filthy sexual content.


              If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.اتبع طرق الهدى ولا يضرك قلة السالكين
              وإياك وطرق الضلالة ولا تغتر بكثرة الهالكين




              Comment


              • #8
                Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                Don't ask about Christianity on an Islamic forum if you're serious about learning the details of what Christians actually believe... I mean, you wouldn't go to Christians for info on Islam would you? You already mentioned that the ones you've spoken to said Islam was a religion of hate and violence... The best way to learn is to ask Christians AND go to their sources (since some Christians aren't very well versed in their own texts/history, just as some Muslims aren't)... Also understand that there are tons of different Christian sects, and each has its own beliefs. You'll have a hard time finding any two Christians that believe exactly the same thing. I'd recommend going to a few churches and talking to people there.
                Last edited by Tyrion; 11-24-2011, 04:25 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                  ahhh ... seems like a lot of work.. can some one just tell me one book that i should read .. can't be that hard..

                  what is the MAIN book.. the MAIN BIBLE -

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                    ^Haha, if you really want to learn the religion you can't take any easy roads. The bare bones could be summed up by most Christians though, so I suggest you ask them (preferably someone who works in a church). You might be confused if you just consult the Bible on your own, but most of Christianity is based on the New Testament, so if you want you could read that... Although you don't seem to be too interested in something that would require actual studying.

                    From what I know and have studied, the basic idea behind Christianity is that sin was brought into the world through Adam and Eve's transgression in the Garden. Because of this, all humans are tainted with sin, and the price of sin in the eyes of god is death... To fix this broken relationship between God and mankind, God sends his son (Jesus) to earth so that he can die for the sins of humanity. People are saved if they believe in and accept Christs death on the cross and his sacrifice for humanity. Christians also believe Jesus is God, since in Christianity God is one and three at the same time. He's one God, but in three persons: The Father, the son, and the holy spirit. That's the basic idea.
                    Last edited by Tyrion; 11-24-2011, 04:33 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                      Originally posted by syed1 View Post
                      the MAIN BIBLE
                      Take your pick, there's no such thing. Everyone claims their version is correct..


                      If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.اتبع طرق الهدى ولا يضرك قلة السالكين
                      وإياك وطرق الضلالة ولا تغتر بكثرة الهالكين




                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                        oh the new testament... I think I have a copy of that somewhere lying around.. I shall go find it

                        peace

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                          To put some of the differences between Islam and Christianity briefly:
                          • Christians believe Eesa (AlayhiSalaam) is the only "begotten son" of Allah (nauzbillah) and Muslims don't believe so because "begetting" a child involves an act as low as sex and we don't believe Allah to have animal instinct of sex like humans do. More importantly, Allah says in Surah Ikhlas (Chapter 112) that He doesn't beget.
                          • Christians believe Christ died on the cross for the sins of humans and whoever believes in him shall attain salvation whereas Muslims believe he never died on the cross because the Qur'an says so in Surah Nisa 4:157 and was lifted up to the heavens alive.
                          • Christians attribute the most disgusting and heinous stories to the pure prophets whom Islam holds in high regard such as accusing Ayub (Job) of having lost faith in Allah's mercy. Accusing Lut (Lot) of incest with his daughters. Solomon/David of polytheism. NAUZBILLAH. And other such ridiculous stories.
                          • Christians believe there are 3 gods in 1 : Allah, Eesa (The Son) and the Holy Ghost whereas Muslims believe purely and totally in one and only Allah. No son or ghost.

                          There are more differences but I need my blood to cool down before I go any further.

                          Why are you researching Christianity in the first place?
                          Last edited by Ali_008; 11-24-2011, 10:44 AM.
                          If Allah helps you, none can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, who is there after Him that can help you? And in Allah (Alone) let believers put their trust.
                          Surah Ale Imran : 160

                          It was narrated that Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
                          The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) climbed up Uhud, accompanied by Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan, and the mountain shook with them. He struck it with his foot and said: “Stand firm, O Uhud, for there is no one on you but a Prophet or a Siddeeq or two martyrs.”
                          Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3483)

                          Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Taala) does not inspire seeking forgiveness in a slave whom he wishes to punish.
                          Ali (RadhiAllahu Anhu)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                            Originally posted by syed1 View Post
                            ahhh ... seems like a lot of work.. can some one just tell me one book that i should read .. can't be that hard..

                            what is the MAIN book.. the MAIN BIBLE -
                            There is no main bible, there are literally thousands of different versions of bibles.

                            You can start by reading some basic past threads in the comparative religion section of this forum.

                            A lot of info already in this forum.




                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                              Originally posted by syed1 View Post
                              oh the new testament... I think I have a copy of that somewhere lying around.. I shall go find it
                              you need to learn the history of new testament to get to know why/how christians became what they are.

                              some of the best books on new testaments are written by one of the most important NT scholars: Bart Ehrman.

                              http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Christian...2142055&sr=1-4
                              http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing...2142055&sr=1-2
                              http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrup...2142055&sr=1-1
                              http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jes...2142055&sr=1-3
                              http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Scripture...2142055&sr=1-6
                              http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Corru...2142055&sr=1-9

                              read those books, and you'll have much better idea what christianity is.




                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..



                                Hey, I know that guy, Bart D. Ehrman, I’ve listened to some of his lectures on the NT, and I’ve got one of his books, “Misquoting Jesus: The story behind who changed the Bible and why” , I still have to check it out…haha.

                                But I don’t understand; he doesn’t believe the Bible to be the Word of God like the other Christians do, he calls it a “human book”…..then why is he still a Christian?
                                I guess he's Agnostic though….

                                Originally posted by syed1 View Post
                                I just want to know purely for comparative purposes... I have watched zakir naik and ahmad deedat and their debates against Christians but I just want to get an understanding of it for my own...
                                There are some really good books written by Shk. Ahmed Deedat on the similarities and differences between Islam and Christianity...
                                I'd suggest....
                                wassalam.
                                “Be in this world like a stranger or a wayfarer”

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                  umm ... the main bible? I wish i could help on this... there are so many different bibles... Ive read many times that the jerusalem bible is one of the more correct as far as how many translations it goes from the original to the current. the king james... i used to hate... mainly because it was one that was made for the common person who may not have a lot of education during king james' time.

                                  as far as just one book though.... you have to look at all of the denominations... often times they go for one particular translation .... and of course... you know... when you translate something from one language to another no matter how careful you are... the words are just not going to keep their originial meaning....

                                  i haven't reverted yet but the koran makes so much more sense to me....
                                  serena

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                    The best and basic first step comparison of two religions is to hear converts stories on both side of the traffic and compare them.
                                    Last edited by Ramadhan; 11-25-2011, 02:56 AM.
                                    "Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
                                    and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
                                    and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                      i'll be honest - i sometimes read the bible for knowledge and comparison and do find some amazing prophecies in there - but i also find much which i can prove has been adulterated and outright fabricated.
                                      still the prophecies and history (what little we can still find) are useful and these were our prophets, so it is not "their" book, - the corrupt scholars and politicians changed it.

                                      when i do read it and am not looking for a specific verse, i just open anywhere randomly with eyes closed and start reading from the first verse or chapter if on that page.
                                      that way - i let Allah choose what knowledge (good or bad) He wants me to gain.
                                      Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor
                                      M.A



                                      The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

                                      Frederick Douglas

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                        Originally posted by missy View Post


                                        Hey, I know that guy, Bart D. Ehrman, I’ve listened to some of his lectures on the NT, and I’ve got one of his books, “Misquoting Jesus: The story behind who changed the Bible and why” , I still have to check it out…haha.

                                        But I don’t understand; he doesn’t believe the Bible to be the Word of God like the other Christians do, he calls it a “human book”…..then why is he still a Christian?
                                        I guess he's Agnostic though….



                                        There are some really good books written by Shk. Ahmed Deedat on the similarities and differences between Islam and Christianity...
                                        I'd suggest....wassalam.
                                        I don't believe that he considers himself a Christian anymore. I could be wrong on that, but he certainly doesn't believe very many of the things that would be considered a mainstays of orthodox Christian beliefs.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                          Originally posted by syed1 View Post
                                          ahhh ... seems like a lot of work.. can some one just tell me one book that i should read .. can't be that hard..

                                          what is the MAIN book.. the MAIN BIBLE -
                                          The Bible is not a single book. It is actually an entire library, a collection of books. Hence, one cannot simply read one book of the Bible and say that they understand Christianity (or, for that matter, Judaism either). About the closest thing for what you are looking for that I could recommend is the two-volume work reportedly by Luke known to us today as Luke and Acts. If you are looking for a summary of Christian beleifs that encompass and summarize the whole of the Bible, you might want to read some written especially for that purpose; there are several options I could recommend if you're really interested.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                            Originally posted by Grace Seeker View Post
                                            I don't believe that he considers himself a Christian anymore. I could be wrong on that, but he certainly doesn't believe very many of the things that would be considered a mainstays of orthodox Christian beliefs.
                                            His lack of belief stems from his scholarship of the all too frequent fabrications that aren't found in the so-called earlier texts.. one rather loses faith when one doesn't understand what God wants or what the hell the convoluted charade is all about...

                                            best,


                                            If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.اتبع طرق الهدى ولا يضرك قلة السالكين
                                            وإياك وطرق الضلالة ولا تغتر بكثرة الهالكين




                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                              Originally posted by ßlµęßęll View Post
                                              His lack of belief stems from his scholarship of the all too frequent fabrications that aren't found in the so-called earlier texts.. one rather loses faith when one doesn't understand what God wants or what the hell the convoluted charade is all about...

                                              best,
                                              Exactly.

                                              Why would Bart remain believing in something that he has proved with evidence based on lies and fabrications?




                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                What i always advice is to master your own religion first, and only then can you go ahead and look at other religions. Brother, am not saying that you lack in your islamic knowledge, what am trying to get at is for you to find out what you can improve on your deen and improve on that. I can tell you now, that is a much better way to spend your time.

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                  Regarding the Bible, don't expect to read it (even the New Testament part) and come away with a clear understanding of basic Christian articles of faith. Brother Tyrion provided a good overview of basic Christian belief in post #10. The Nicene Creed is the best single explanation of Christian belief copied from the 'Catholic Encyclopedia' below:

                                                  We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

                                                  GraceSeeker is a minister of the Methodist denomination and would be able to provide answers to specific questions you may have from a Protestant perspective.

                                                  I have read Bart Ehrman's book, "Lost Christianities" and I found it to be very well researched and scholarly, but a bit too much detail for the average person.

                                                  I have also read "MisGod'ed: A Roadmap of Guidance and Misguidance in the Abrahamic Religions" by Laurence Brown and found it be be an excellent book on comparative religion. I also highly recommend his companion book, "God'ed?: The Case for Islam as the Completion of Revelation". If I were to recommend a single book on comparative religion, it would be "MisGod'ed", which is a play off the word "misguided", but I would also recommend "God'ed" which is a play off the word "guided".

                                                  http://www.amazon.com/MisGoded-Guida...3533901&sr=1-1

                                                  http://www.amazon.com/Goded-Case-Islam-Completion-Revelation/dp/1419684604/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323533901&sr=1-5

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #26
                                                    Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                    Originally posted by syed1
                                                    I am trying to educate myself more about christiantiy and what they believe but I am not quite sure where to start..


                                                    what is the holy book they refer to ... i know it is the bible, but which one? why are there different books by matthew or paul etc?

                                                    Where should I start?
                                                    There are a lot of differences in particular doctrine between Christianity and the other monotheistic faiths (Islam and Judaism) but the one thing that really sets it apart is the idea of vicarious redemption through faith. They believe that we are born sinful and that nothing we can do will redeem us. They believe that it is not our works that will save us, but our faith and acceptance of Jesus' "gift" of being killed for our sins. They some how see it as moral and just and good for a perfect innocent being (Jesus) to suffer in our place so that we can be whiped clean of sin and go to heaven no matter what evil things we've done. That's the core of it, and that is why of the monotheistic religions I find it the most distasteful.

                                                    If you want to get a full understanding of the actual doctrine, I'd advise you to start with gaining an understanding of Judaism, as Christianity is an offshoot.
                                                    Last edited by Pygoscelis; 12-12-2011, 05:30 AM.
                                                    Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told. Obedience is doing what you are told regardless of what is right. Never confuse the two.

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #27
                                                      Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                      Originally posted by Pygoscelis View Post
                                                      If you want to get a full understanding of the actual doctrine, I'd advise you to start with gaining an understanding of Judaism, as Christianity is an offshoot.
                                                      That is true ... the theology of the new testament ,at most ,is nothing but a radical,creative development of old testament themes ... eg: the concept of blood atonement (Islam opposes it totally) that clearly has a Jewish background ....
                                                      Christians inherited the gross errors of the Jews ,developing them into disasters, in both theory and practice !..
                                                      http://almanar3.blogspot.com/

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #28
                                                        Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                        Originally posted by missy View Post
                                                        [FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="Indigo"][SIZE="2"]

                                                        Hey, I know that guy, Bart D. Ehrman, I’ve listened to some of his lectures on the NT, and I’ve got one of his books, “Misquoting Jesus: The story behind who changed the Bible and why” , I still have to check it out…haha.

                                                        But I don’t understand; he doesn’t believe the Bible to be the Word of God like the other Christians do, he calls it a “human book”…..then why is he still a Christian?
                                                        I guess he's Agnostic though….
                                                        Ehrmans' books among those of the most popular in the field of new testament ,they are very readable ,clear and straight ,though I find out that sometimes you will find very few contradictions between his points in his early works compared to the new ...
                                                        I read all his books , I would recommend:

                                                        1- The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings .(the one that benefited me most)
                                                        2- Misquoting Jesus.
                                                        3- Jesus, Interrupted
                                                        4- Forged: Writing in the Name of God--Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are.
                                                        5- Lost Christianities
                                                        Last edited by Al-manar; 12-13-2011, 07:07 PM.
                                                        http://almanar3.blogspot.com/

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #29
                                                          Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                          Originally posted by MustafaMc View Post
                                                          GraceSeeker is a minister of the Methodist denomination and would be able to provide answers to specific questions you may have from a Protestant perspective.
                                                          Notice that Mustafa acknowledges that I would be able to provide answers to questions from a Protestant perspective, but he does not recommend me when it comes to speaking to questions regarding Catholicism. Why is that, especially when I have studied both Catholic history and Catholic theology? The answer is simple: I myself am a protestant, not a Catholic.

                                                          For the same reason, I suggest you get your answers vis-a-vis Christianity from those who actually profess and believe the things you are asking questions about.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #30
                                                            Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                            Originally posted by Grace Seeker View Post
                                                            Notice that Mustafa acknowledges that I would be able to provide answers to questions from a Protestant perspective, but he does not recommend me when it comes to speaking to questions regarding Catholicism. Why is that, especially when I have studied both Catholic history and Catholic theology? The answer is simple: I myself am a protestant, not a Catholic.
                                                            Actually, I didn't know you were so well versed in Catholicism as I would venture to say that most Protestant ministers are not. You are welcome to correct me in any errors that I made in what I have written.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #31
                                                              Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                              Originally posted by MustafaMc View Post
                                                              Actually, I didn't know you were so well versed in Catholicism as I would venture to say that most Protestant ministers are not. You are welcome to correct me in any errors that I made in what I have written.
                                                              No, I agree with you. No matter how much I may be educated with regard to Catholicism, I still view it all through my protestant lens. I can, and do, try to be as objective as possible. But there is no way that I can be objective enough to not let my some personal bias come through.

                                                              I feel the same with regard to Bart Ehrman. He is, and deserves to be, a respected scholar with regard to the history of Christianity and the Bible. He is well informed. But like any other person, he also has preconceived ideas with regard to those topics. Thus, if one is wanting to know what and why believing Christians think on a matter, he has (if I am properly informed with regard to his present set of beliefs) basically disqualified himself because of his lack of belief in the very things that one is asking about. That doesn't mean that his views wouldn't ultimately be more correct, but it does mean that they don't represent what a believer believes. For that, I would suggest just as credible of a scholar, equally recognized in all the same areas that Bart Ehrman is, but who is himself a practicing believer: N.T. Wright. Books and audio available here. But as with Ehrman (several of whose books I also have), I caution that he is not always the easiest read -- though I have been privileged to hear him lecture in person, and even my wife (whose education is not in any field of religious studies) was as equally able to follow him as I.

                                                              Another well-qualfied contemporary Christian author, perhaps a bit easier for the uninitiated to read, is Scot McKnight.

                                                              For someone wishing to understand the core of the Christian faith at its simplest I recommend McKnight's book, The Jesus Creed or Wright's book Simply Jesus.
                                                              For someone wishing to better understand the Bible I recommend Wright's book, Scripture and the Authority of God or perhaps a Bible survey such as Henrietta Mears' classic, What The Bible Is All About. For someone who is brand new to it, I would even recommend the kid's version of it as being especially helpful.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #32
                                                                Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                Originally posted by Grace Seeker View Post
                                                                I feel the same with regard to Bart Ehrman. He is, and deserves to be, a respected scholar with regard to the history of Christianity and the Bible. He is well informed. But like any other person, he also has preconceived ideas with regard to those topics. Thus, if one is wanting to know what and why believing Christians think on a matter, he has (if I am properly informed with regard to his present set of beliefs) basically disqualified himself because of his lack of belief in the very things that one is asking about. That doesn't mean that his views wouldn't ultimately be more correct, but it does mean that they don't represent what a believer believes.
                                                                Bart ehrman presents facts and evidence, hard cold findings from his scholarships.




                                                                Comment


                                                                • #33
                                                                  Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                  Originally posted by Ramadhan View Post
                                                                  Bart ehrman presents facts and evidence, hard cold findings from his scholarships.
                                                                  But the OP is asking about Christianity, not the historicity of the Bible. To learn about Christianity, he needs to ask Christians and look at their books himself. Scholars like Ehrman are knowledgeable, but they look at religious texts as if they were only historical documents, so what they say isn't necessarily taken by believing Christians. You wouldn't be saying this if we were talking about other historians that dismissed the Qur'an as the writings of a man in ancient Arabia... Would you?

                                                                  Also, I've found that the points about the Bible's historicity, while interesting and helpful for Muslims, usually aren't particularly troublesome for Christians nowadays. Many Christians don't subscribe to the concept of Biblical inerrancy anymore... (Which, by the way, is something a practicing Christian could do, while a practicing Muslim could not)

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • #34
                                                                    Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                    Originally posted by Tyrion View Post
                                                                    Scholars like Ehrman are knowledgeable, but they look at religious texts as if they were only historical documents, so what they say isn't necessarily taken by believing Christians.
                                                                    Through his scholarships, Ehrman addressed individual, specific claims by christians, and proved with evidence about veracity of such claims such as: John couldn't have written the gospel of John in the bible.
                                                                    Also, which believing christians are we talking about?

                                                                    Originally posted by Tyrion View Post
                                                                    You wouldn't be saying this if we were talking about other historians that dismissed the Qur'an as the writings of a man in ancient Arabia... Would you?
                                                                    Ehrman rejected many specific claims made by christians with specific evidence and proof.
                                                                    Can you please showed me a scholar who, based on evidence and scholarships equal to that of Ehrman, has proven that Qur'an was the writings of a man in ancient Arabia?
                                                                    I'd really like to know.
                                                                    We know that prophet Muhammad (saw) was conveyed with Qur'an, we don't need a "scholar" to tell us that. But we also make the claim that it originate from God (swt), now I'd like to see if there's a scholar who has proven Qur'an is not from God.
                                                                    Remember, Ehrman does not just say "bible is error!" or that "bible is fabrication!"

                                                                    Originally posted by Tyrion View Post
                                                                    Also, I've found that the points about the Bible's historicity, while interesting and helpful for Muslims, usually aren't particularly troublesome for Christians nowadays. Many Christians don't subscribe to the concept of Biblical inerrancy anymore... (Which, by the way, is something a practicing Christian could do, while a practicing Muslim could not)
                                                                    That's right.
                                                                    That's why I'm surprised that you say believing christians do not necessarily subscribed to Ehrman's findings and evidence.
                                                                    It seems for christians what matters is just faith. No evidence nor logic is necessary.
                                                                    Last edited by Ramadhan; 12-13-2011, 07:33 AM.




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                                                                    • #35
                                                                      Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                      Originally posted by syed1
                                                                      I am trying to educate myself more about christiantiy and what they believe but I am not quite sure where to start..


                                                                      what is the holy book they refer to ... i know it is the bible, but which one? why are there different books by matthew or paul etc?

                                                                      Where should I start?
                                                                      As a Christian who is visiting this forum to learn more about Islam, perhaps I can help. I'd start with a front to back read of the New Testament -- if using an English translation, I recommend the NIV (New International Version) as it was compiled over several years from the earliest extant text documents by a team of international biblical text and language scholars. A solid NIV study bible gives a summary and analysis of each New Testament book and its author.

                                                                      Some Christians consider the present New Testament text infallible. I don't, since we have none of the original autographs of any of the books, only copies -- and text criticism hints at editing in those. There are four gospels -- three "synoptics", Matthew, Mark, Luke, which largely overlap but are addressed to different audiences, Matthew to a Jewish audience, Luke to Gentiles, and the shortest, Mark, perhaps one of the sources for the other two. The fourth gospel, John, was the last one written, and has a more Greek/Hellenistic tone and emphasis. The Acts of the Apostles was once a part of Luke, and is believed to have the same author. The Apostle Paul's epistles were the earliest written Christian texts. There are epistles of others, such as John, Peter and James, and finally the controversial Book of Revelation (end-times) attributed to the same Apostle John who wrote the Gospel of John and Johannine Epistles.

                                                                      There is a fairly large volume of Christian Apocrypha, books which were rejected for the New Testament canon (which was established at the Council of Nicea in the 4th century), many for good reason. However, some of the Apocryphal books were widespread and widely accepted in the early Church, and reading these can give you a better idea of early Church beliefs; I and II Clement, The Shepherd of Hermas, The Didache, The Gospel of Thomas, The Epistle of Barnabas, The Odes of Solomon, The Wisdom of Solomon.

                                                                      IMO, reading the works of the very early Church fathers is essential for understanding how the early Christians interpreted the New Testament teachings and practiced their beliefs. In the West (Rome), Clement of Rome, Ignatias, Polycarp. In the East (Alexandria), Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Origen and Athenagoras. You'll find different expressions of Christian beliefs, perhaps because they were speaking to different audiences, and in some ways they actually held slightly different understandings, but all resulted in similar practices, rules of living, lifestyles, so these very early Christians were essentially unified in spirit and practice.

                                                                      The first real schism was with Judaism (in areas where Judaism was practiced), the next with the gnostic sects, who taught a matter/spirit dualism which de-emphasized the need for "doing good works" in this life, since only the spirit and knowledge, not matter and this earthly life, were important -- or, as the more orthodox church fathers complained, they were lazy... We still have a lot of those, although many don't self-designate themselves as such.

                                                                      Iraneus was the first of the church fathers to suggest the need for a more unified theology, and his writings about "heresies" ignited a new movement toward that goal. St. Augustine's writings are considered the essential primer on what became the official orthodox theology of the early Christian Church, in the 4th century, AD.

                                                                      As you probably know, since that time, the Christian Church has split into factions upon factions, beginning with the Roman Catholic split from the Orthodox Church (usually referred to, in Western countries, as the Greek or Eastern Orthodox Church), then the Protestant movement's split from the Roman Catholic Church, beginning with Martin Luther (from what I've read, the Catholic Church was badly corrupted at that time), and since then it all cascaded to the point that today there are so many conflicting and contradictory Christian theologies, there is no such thing as "A" Christian theology, there are dozens -- hundreds, if you count all the smaller sects and factions. That's why many of us Christians go back and study these very early writings, to better understand how the contemporaries of Jesus (the Apostles) and their students/disciples understood and practiced Christianity.

                                                                      Hope this helps. Sorry to be so wordy, but this is the only subject on this forum I know a little something about -- most of the time I'll be a lurking reader and asking questions. rebecca

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                                                                      • #36
                                                                        Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                        Hi there Rebecca, thanks for your help. will definitely grab a hold of the NT and give it a read.

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                                                                        • #37
                                                                          Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                          Originally posted by syed1
                                                                          I am trying to educate myself more about christiantiy and what they believe but I am not quite sure where to start..


                                                                          what is the holy book they refer to ... i know it is the bible, but which one? why are there different books by matthew or paul etc?

                                                                          Where should I start?
                                                                          Salaam,


                                                                          BBC Christianity...

                                                                          http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/

                                                                          There is a book called teach yourself Christianity. You should read it. Google it.
                                                                          I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.

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                                                                          • #38
                                                                            Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                            Ironically Christianity and their their scriptures, The Bible, are too very different things.

                                                                            Christianity usually includes the belief in original sin, that Jesus was sacrificed to save mankind from its sins, and the trinity, including the idea of the manhood of God/Godhood of a man in the form of Jesus.

                                                                            The concept of the Trinity and Jesus being God are concepts that weren't yet around for the earliest Christians, whose belief was still inherently Judaic and unitarian therefore they aren't found in the Bible. The notions of original sin and Jesus being sacraficed to save mankind from its sin come from the the Epistles by Paul of Tarsis, concepts/teachings which aren't found in the rest of the Bible (The Old Testament and the Gospels). Therefore, though one would expect reading The Bible would teach one a lot about Christianity, it doesn't because the majority of scriptures aren't ingrained with the kind of concepts that are later became embedded in Christianity.

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                                                                            • #39
                                                                              Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                              Originally posted by Pen View Post
                                                                              Ironically Christianity and their their scriptures, The Bible, are too very different things.

                                                                              Christianity usually includes the belief in original sin, that Jesus was sacrificed to save mankind from its sins, and the trinity, including the idea of the manhood of God/Godhood of a man in the form of Jesus.

                                                                              The concept of the Trinity and Jesus being God are concepts that weren't yet around for the earliest Christians, whose belief was still inherently Judaic and unitarian therefore they aren't found in the Bible. The notions of original sin and Jesus being sacraficed to save mankind from its sin come from the the Epistles by Paul of Tarsis, concepts/teachings which aren't found in the rest of the Bible (The Old Testament and the Gospels). Therefore, though one would expect reading The Bible would teach one a lot about Christianity, it doesn't because the majority of scriptures aren't ingrained with the kind of concepts that are later became embedded in Christianity.
                                                                              First post, and yet already wrote such a clear, succinct and yet complete brief about christianity.
                                                                              I'm impressed.




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                                                                              • #40
                                                                                Re: can some one explain chirstianity ..

                                                                                Salam! At least one other person on here has written that you should read and study the Qur'an and hadiths. Do that. Don't get into studying the bible until you have the Qur'an and hadiths firmly in you. I studied the bible for years as a christian. I was a 'born-again' christian for years and wanted to go to bible college to learn biblical hebrew so I could read the old testament in its original language. There's a lot to study in the bible and the fact that there are thousands of denominations in christianity shows that they don't even agree on what things exactly are taught. I gave all that up when I left christianity for several different reasons. You've been told about Bart Ehrman who regrettably became an atheist. Others you can research are Dr Gary Miller (ex Canadian missionary), Sheikh Yusuf Estes, and Dr Laurence Brown. Keep going with those guys and they won't put you wrong.

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