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  • Non-Muslims and Islam

    There is so much corrupted views, I personally think, it has been made because of what infidels want-they say they aren’t treated well, even when a Muslim is just mentioning Islam and even going as far as saying what they want to hear, and they say they don ‘t want to hear about going to Hell, or it doesn‘t work etc, when even the infidels in the past rejected Hell too, so nothing new there! We don't use the Christians approach be nice to the people to get them to join Chrisitanity. We respect people but also warn them of the going to Hell.

    I think people are treating repenting like if they are going to be appreciated, motivated to do so. Even in School, people strive on encouragement to learn more, and when others want them to succeed they push on and pass. So to answer those misconceptions;-

    Listening to the Prophets

    1. All the Prophets had the best of behaviours, then why didn’t all the infidels repent?? If that is what they wanted. So even if Prophets are nice, it is the responses of the people themselves that help people repent. Even people fell down prostrating after hearing the Quran, that isn’t because people were being nice to them, because they listened to what Allah was saying to them.

    The Prophets did not open Schools, to motivate people.
    The Prophets did not provide preferential treatment to one person, they gave the same message to everyone. They did not choose who to tell to repent.
    They told people to repent on the first day, not after they said they appreciate sinful people (which of course they never said).

    Allah did say not to the Prophets not to turn people away from Islam. That is because a Prophet showing their anger, is worse then anybody showing theirs. As it can effect people more then other people can.. If you like someone and they turned round and shouted at you they can be taken a back and be afraid of coming up to them again. The people actually accepted all the Prophets on how they were, they did not have a problem with them, thye knew thjye were good, but threw Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him in the fire, attacked Prophet Lut peace be upon him, they understood the message to worship the one God and remember the Day of Judgement, and in Paradise and Hell.

    People who have repented

    2. I believe that people who have repented and became Muslim, have taken a bigger step then born Muslims, as we were already there accepted the one God, Allah. Even if you travelled the whole world, it still does not equate to the one step that person took when repenting. Do you honestly think that they will be worshipping the one God, fasting in the month of Ramadan, remembering the Day of Judgement if they had not accepted the message. Allah rewards them for turning to him. He has never said that people only repent when someone is being “nice” to them. Even though they used to do stupid things in the past, they already have shown that they are not the same, and frankly, we do not treat them differently from another Muslim.

    It is our job as Muslims to help one another, if I had to travel for miles to fetch one Muslim then we would do this. Another Muslims is safe from being harmed by another Muslim. We fear Allah, we know that if we harmed them then we are going to be punished badly. Note no matter what the infidels talk about care, love etc they fail to get this attention by anyone.

    They only as typical evil doers get people to be nice to them, as long as they get what they want. Even the governments were afraid of the breakdown of order with the financial crisis etc. They have said that when people don’t get what they want, they complain, riot, as per even in Greece. We Muslims are obedient even when we are hungry. We are the only
    servants of Allah who can fight in the name of God, as we do not fight for a personal reason but to forbid evil and enjoin good. Did the homosexual think he was so important that an angel has to come down and kill him? Or the adulterer? At least we don’t kill people because we don’t like them personally is there not some reports that they killed single women and accused them of being witches in the West? Some were saying that they had not evidence that they were witches.

    We don’t kill people for not becoming a Muslim, it is their choice the test that Allah has provided them with. We do not stop people from choosing their side in Paradise or hell, but we will openly be critical of people being in sin.


    - People repented to at the time of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, and they put up with a lot of opposition by Jews, idol worshippers etc. So they did not turn to Islam to have it easy in this world, or to be appreciate it or get attention.

    - even in Christianity they talk of a prostitute who repented at the time of Prophet Jesus peace be upon him, but she did not repent because Prophet Jesus peace be upon him was going to marry her.

    - the magicians repented even though they knew that their hands and feet would be chopped off, they did not repent because Prophet Moses peace be upon him was going to take care of them. Even Allah himself has chosen to tell us of what happened to them in the Quran, as they became the best of Muslims even though they hadn’t spent much time being one, and of course the died and have a goodly reward in the next world.

    - even there are “Muslims” who have converted to Hinduism, Christianity, so they will not be attacked or be acceptable to people. So they have already shown their real faces that they are sinful people. Fearing others instead of Allah. Looking for people to be kind to them, when none can save you from Hell except Allah. This is the good side of the war on terror for us, that its sorting out the good and the bad Muslims, we are not going to help them when the countries are destroyed, when there is a calamity and when the Dajjal arrives.

    Care for one another

    3. As explained on Love, love say the Christians, we don’t talk about people just being nice to us, that does not help them unless they repent. The Prophets did not say if you just be nice to me, you’ll make it to Paradise. You only make it when you repent. Even the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him’s uncle was kind to him but he did not repent.

    Natural disasters

    4. They have heard that over 200,000 people got killed in the Tsunami, approximately, 80,000 in Pakistan, lets not forget dead bodies floating around New Orleans and they still do not heed the warnings.

    Plagues

    5. Did they not have the plagues of Egypt? Were they provided “nicely” to people?? Did Allah provide the locusts etc in a nice way??

    Inconsiderate

    6. In this world we are living in the midst of so much evil, even homosexuality has become openly accepted, they are adopting children, lewd behaviour, people been abused, physically, verbally and sexually. I find that the infidels out there complaining about how they are treated, are typically inconsiderate (but they claim not to be, and quote respect etc).

    As stated in another thread, there have been plenty of cases of the ungrateful, inconsiderate attitude that evil people have;-

    - even evil Males in Sierra Leone were still happy to ask for attention for someone to care about them, well what about the abused victims? What about the children? Do they think after all their crimes, Allah is going to say that we have to shower them with support, care and attention to help them repent, as people should already be good, even if they are poor, hungry etc.

    The evil people want people to make them happy, then when they are, they are unlikely to attack others. They are not looking to repent to Allah, they want to be provided for, have attention.

    If you said to them repent or take a beautiful wife, a home, They will take the wife and home. Even prisoners do not think about repenting, but looking for someone to care about them, and even look to getting married.

    Of course even Allah himself is not going to give them Paradise unless they repent to him. Whenever have they heard that if a person does not repent, Allah will still take their soul, and place them in Paradise and live happily ever after, and be provided for?

    Pastime

    7. There are people who treat this world like a pastime, and then they say we did not learn such and such about Islam because we did not hear of it. Its like if someone goes on holiday, they don’t want to talk about the Day of Judgement as the think it would ruin their holiday. They know that Islam is present in this world, but they want to look at enjoying themselves on that beach, etc. Allah still throws them into Hell, as they chose the life of this world, they still heard about Allah, the Day of Judgement, and Hell. It is not our job to follow them around like Devils, and tell them about Islam. They chose to hear and listen to the message. You cannot change why you are in this world, no matter how you treat it, you are only squandering your own opportunity to make it to Paradise. This world is a test.
    Even in School, there are students who want to gossip, hang out, and they don’t pass their exams. It is there fault that they did not pay attention. No matter what they did, they still did not change the fact that they were in a School-to learn and get an education. So just like this world no matter what you do, you cannot change the fact that this world is a test. Allah did not create it as a pastime, and if he did, do you really believe that he would have created all these sinful people especially so they can be stupid in this world? Nay they only lead themselves astray.

    Life of this world

    8. The foolishly hold on to the life of this world, even in California, were people have accepted that there will be a Major earthquake, but they are saying already that we will rebuild and recover from it. They have recovered from the financial crisis in the past, and they will recover from this, and when they get more, they call them unprecedented.
    Even with the war against “Terror”, they were treating it like World War 2, but they cannot, as you went against Islam and if you reject the message you cannot survive from it! Hitler, even the war in Iraq, Kuwait the message of Islam was not actively being mentioned. Even Christians have admitted it is because of Islam that people have talked more about God.
    The masses were not opening up and reading Mein Kampf, they accepted Hitler as being evil. But with the war on “Terror” people read the Quran and questioned what Muslims believe, again which they did not do with Hitler. They are trying to treat it like war, and engage the public to fight against the Muslims but the fact is that if we had just fought, fought when are they going to learn about Islam??

    So no matter what they tried they could not get the desired effect. Allah is Most Merciful.
    Infidels say they don’t want to learn about Islam, well they have been warned and that is sufficient. We also don’t care what they think, because if they really wanted to learn something else, then how come there are plenty of people in the West who aren’t availing themselves of the opportunities to learn? They talk about women’s rights, but there are females if they went abroad, any woman would say that they have been ruining their life, by not getting an education, being lewd, having children outside of marriage etc. So who are they to say that they didn’t want to learn about Islam? When they have been wasting their time, and even the educated only going after the life in this world.

    Heeding the signs

    9. Personally I heed the warnings of Allah, so that is always going to be a clash with non-Muslims. As I don’t find it acceptable that they ignored so many signs. They call themselves kind whilst others go through so much rubbish and they still choose the life of this world. They think some of the problems far away or in another country. Well did they not carry on enjoying themselves on an Italian beach when there were the bodies of two gypsy girls? They call themselves kind, caring people. The fact is that your not being one. You may accuse me of being unkind but I am not the one who is ignoring what is happening and treating this world like if its fun and that the countries will continue.

    There is actually no difference to me if there was a huge earthquake tomorrow, as I am not treating this world like its my life. I see no difference if people are asking me if I was alive at the time of Prophet Noah peace be upon him building the ark, what about if someone came to me and talked about planning my long term future in this city?? I wouldn’t just politely as people call it decline the request. A person would use emotion. I wouldn’t just say “No, thank-you”. I would tell them that they are being stupid. “You dare to ignore what the Prophet has said and your telling me to join you in Hell”. I’m not going on the internet and attacking people, as some people do for the fun of it. They are willing to attack anyone for the sake of being horrible and disrespecting people. I’m not happy with people rejecting what Allah has taught them, and the many signs he has provided, he has provided them with foods of various kinds, fruits, trees, the rain etc. There is no way that after what has been happening in this world that I am going to treat them like if they are innocent. The Prophets have never taught anyone that if a person does not heed the warnings they are innocent, if they don’t repent are they not going to be treated as innocent people on the Day of
    Judgement.

    Thankfully, I know that I’ve only started on the internet in Sep 2009, and now its 2010, they had plenty of time to learn from the nice Muslims. There is no excuses for their behaviour, neither are they going to say on the Day of Judgement that it was acceptable for them to have been infidels in 2008, 2007, 2006 etc. So how I am is because I am heeding the warnings, the clash I have with people is over this. Allah is not going to teach me that after all these signs it is acceptable that people aren’t repenting. Allah is never going to say to me its acceptable that people don’t heed the warnings. Allah is not going to say to me to treat this place like if it is going to last. I have always believed that these countries were going to be destroyed before Sep 11. I am not biased on events today etc, that is why I have also written the “Not our job” thread.

    I will refuse to accept that I put people off, when I am talking about Islam to the point. Trying to make everything relevant on my threads. Because you don’t have years and years to learn what Islam teaches.

    Why I refuse is because I see and remember the environment, the warnings that Allah has provided them, I have been living in the same world roughly at the same time. Allah is Most Merciful, Compassionate, he does not wrong people, they wrong themselves, he has even provided people a fair test to those who have not even read the Quran. They have at least heard that there is one God, the Day of Judgement, of Paradise and of Hell. Even there are references that people will be witnesses on the Day of Judgement, not they will be ever saying that Allah never provided them with anything.

    So repenting is about saving yourselves from Hell, not about receiving attention from others (as you will all be brought forward on the Day of Judgement, all are turned to Allah on that Day, not to each other, you won‘t even care to think about your children on that Day).
    "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

  • #2
    Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

    Originally posted by h-n
    There is so much corrupted views, I personally think, it has been made because of what infidels want-they say they aren’t treated well, even when a Muslim is just mentioning Islam and even going as far as saying what they want to hear, and they say they don ‘t want to hear about going to Hell, or it doesn‘t work etc, when even the infidels in the past rejected Hell too, so nothing new there! We don't use the Christians approach be nice to the people to get them to join Chrisitanity. We respect people but also warn them of the going to Hell.

    So repenting is about saving yourselves from Hell, not about receiving attention from others (as you will all be brought forward on the Day of Judgement, all are turned to Allah on that Day, not to each other, you won‘t even care to think about your children on that Day).
    Greetingsm sister h-n

    Having read a few of your threads I get the feeling that you feel very strongly about not warning people about going to hell, and that you have the impression that that's what Christians do.

    Truth is, many Christians spend a lot of time proselytizing and trying to get people to convert to Christianity by threatening them with hell.
    I have read many, many threads here in this forum in which Muslims complain about such practices.

    It is interesting that you seem to be different in suggesting that Christians should threaten non-Christians with hell. Is that what you would like to see?

    I can only give you my personal thoughts on this. I ask myself where would this lead us?

    H-n: "If you don't convert to Islam you will go to hell!"

    Glo: "If you don't convert to Christianity you will go to hell!"

    ...

    It doesn't get us very far, does it?

    I think we are better off trying to understand each other better and to teach each other about what we believe through words and deeds.
    Threatening people into action never seems to be very helpful ...

    Truth is, it doesn't matter too much to me whether you choose to be a Muslim or otherwise.
    We are all in God's hands. He is the one who calls us by name and guides us in truth and love.

    I am not called to judge my neighbours, or to threaten them with hell or anything else.
    I am called to love my neighbours and to care for them.
    As for their afterlife, I never stop praying for my non-believing friends, colleagues, family members and neighbours, begging God that he may show them the way.
    If is a small way I can be part of that process, then I gladly do so - but I will not try to BE GOD!

    Allah alim

    Salaam to you, sister
    Peace
    glo

    Here I stand.
    I can do no other.
    May God help me.
    Amen.

    Come, let us worship and bow down •
    and kneel before the Lord our Maker

    [Psalm 95]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

      Originally posted by glo View Post
      Greetingsm sister h-n

      Having read a few of your threads I get the feeling that you feel very strongly about not warning people about going to hell, and that you have the impression that that's what Christians do.

      Truth is, many Christians spend a lot of time proselytizing and trying to get people to convert to Christianity by threatening them with hell.
      I have read many, many threads here in this forum in which Muslims complain about such practices.

      It is interesting that you seem to be different in suggesting that Christians should threaten non-Christians with hell. Is that what you would like to see?

      I can only give you my personal thoughts on this. I ask myself where would this lead us?

      H-n: "If you don't convert to Islam you will go to hell!"

      Glo: "If you don't convert to Christianity you will go to hell!"

      ...

      It doesn't get us very far, does it?

      I think we are better off trying to understand each other better and to teach each other about what we believe through words and deeds.
      Threatening people into action never seems to be very helpful ...

      Truth is, it doesn't matter too much to me whether you choose to be a Muslim or otherwise.
      We are all in God's hands. He is the one who calls us by name and guides us in truth and love.

      I am not called to judge my neighbours, or to threaten them with hell or anything else.
      I am called to love my neighbours and to care for them.
      As for their afterlife, I never stop praying for my non-believing friends, colleagues, family members and neighbours, begging God that he may show them the way.
      If is a small way I can be part of that process, then I gladly do so - but I will not try to BE GOD!

      Allah alim

      Salaam to you, sister
      People should be warned that they will go to Hell if they don't repent. You say it doesn't go very far, then you are being critical of the Prophets warning people that they will also go to Hell, so then you are saying that;-

      -God should not have told people about Hell?
      -Prophet Noah peace be upon him should not have told infidels constantly, that if they don't repent they will go to Hell?
      -Prophet Lut peace be upon him should not have told infidels constantly, that if they don't repent they will go to Hell?
      -Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him should not have told infidels constantly, that if they don't repent they will go to Hell?

      Clearly changing the message of Islam, the message provided by Allah, by all the Prophets. Muslims would never listen to your rubbish, evil accepting, rejecting what the Prophets have taught us. We Muslims would NEVER accept what your saying over what the Prophet Jesus, Noah, Lut, Ibrahim peace be upon them had taught us.

      Plus if Prophet Noah peace be upon them came to the infidels and never mentioned about Hell, they would never have been taken by the flood.

      Why do you think that Allah destroyed them? Because they were rejecting being kind to each other?
      Allah destroyed them as they did not worship him and remember the Day of Judgement and Hell.


      I don't accept Christianity promotes people going to Hell-from the public, masses opinion in the European countries, I am aware that there are differences in USA etc, but as explained they are still looking for the life of this world. They are a sinful people and after people respecting them, and looking to them. As explaiend on the other thread "Love, love say the Christians (but I say they are liars").

      It is a sinful act to say to people to stop worshipping our Creator and to worship idols.

      In Chrisitanity they have accepted that;-

      -Prophet Jesus peace be upon him bowed down and prayed to Allah, we are doing the same thing.
      -All the Prophets sacrificed animals and bowed down to Allah, and fasted.

      Clearly changing their religion for the life of this world. So it is not about differences between Islam and Christianity, it is the fact that they changed their what all the Prophets have taught them.

      1. Sinful people keep on quoting "Allah is my judge", Allah has already taught us of what he accepts or does not, he is not going to surprise the Muslims on the Day of Judgement and say idol worship is acceptable. He has already taught us of why people go to Hell, to avoid going there.

      -I do not need to wait till the Day of Judgment to know that idol worship is a sin, if they do not repent they will go to Hell
      -I do not need to wait till the Day of judgement to know that homosexuality is a sin, if they do not repent they will go to Hell.
      -I do not need to wait till the Day of Judgement to know if they have not repented they are going to Hell.

      I don't need to understand infidels better, frankly I already do, and I understand that if you were born a donkey, your life would have been better, as at least your not commiting idol worship and going to Hell if you don't repent.


      So repent, become a Muslim, if you do not then you will go to Hell.

      Plus I'm no sister of infidels.
      Last edited by h-n; 06-25-2010, 06:46 PM.
      "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

        "As to those who reject faith, it is same to them, you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

          Sister h-n, I cannot really reply to your post appropriately, because forum rules do not allow me to speak about my faith in terms which may be interpreted to 'promote religions other that Isam'.

          Any Christians threatening non-Christians with hell if they do not convert to Christianity would last in this forum for about 5 minutes ... ... so there really isn't much point in you suggesting to Christians here that they should do so.

          As I said, I am not one to threaten people with hell, and I don't think it is my role to do so.
          People do need to repent ... but God in his mercy and love will lead them to do so willingly, rather than out of terror and fear!
          People do need to change their ways ... but I see them doing so quite naturally and joyfully once they understand and realise the great mercy and love of our Creator for us!
          People will be judged according to their deeds ... but if they have followed God's instructions to treat each other with love, care and kindness, then hopefully God will be pleased with us.


          I do not wish to debate with you, sister.
          If you tried to understand Christianity better, you would probably realise just how many values and beliefs out faiths share!

          Let us just offer each other a sign of peace and say "Lakum deenukum waliya deen"
          Last edited by glo; 06-25-2010, 08:54 PM.
          Peace
          glo

          Here I stand.
          I can do no other.
          May God help me.
          Amen.

          Come, let us worship and bow down •
          and kneel before the Lord our Maker

          [Psalm 95]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

            Originally posted by Argamemnon View Post
            "As to those who reject faith, it is same to them, you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe"
            Exactly!
            We are in God's hands, and he will guide us as he sees fit.
            God knows best.
            Peace
            glo

            Here I stand.
            I can do no other.
            May God help me.
            Amen.

            Come, let us worship and bow down •
            and kneel before the Lord our Maker

            [Psalm 95]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

              I think glo's post sums my thoughts up. 'Convert or go to Hell' seems like a method designed to bully and coerce people into accepting a belief or ideology, and there is no way I will be bullied into believing something, particularly something I regard as inherently false. Moreover, not only do I find the concept of God being a bully intrinsically difficult to accept, I have little interest in offering my worship to such a God. This is why many religions creep me out to no end, and why I shudder with revulsion when I see people refering to themselves as slaves of God, as worthless trash sanctified by His Grace alone, who look forward to an eternity of prostrating themselves in gratefulness for being kept out of the Cosmic Auschwitz that houses most of mankind.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                Originally posted by glo View Post
                Sister h-n, I cannot really reply to your post appropriately, because forum rules do not allow me to speak about my faith in terms which may be interpreted to 'promote religions other that Isam'.

                Any Christians threatening non-Christians with hell if they do not convert to Christianity would last in this forum for about 5 minutes ... ... so there really isn't much point in you suggesting to Christians here that they should do so.

                As I said, I am not one to threaten people with hell, and I don't think it is my role to do so.
                People do need to repent ... but God in his mercy and love will lead them to do so willingly, rather than out of terror and fear!
                People do need to change their ways ... but I see them doing so quite naturally and joyfully once they understand and realise the great mercy and love of our Creator for us!
                People will be judged according to their deeds ... but if they have followed God's instructions to treat each other with love, care and kindness, then hopefully God will be pleased with us.

                I do not wish to debate with you, sister.
                If you tried to understand Christianity better, you would probably realise just how many values and beliefs out faiths share!

                Let us just offer each other a sign of peace and say "Lakum deenukum waliya deen"
                Typical infidel, rejecting what all the Prophets have taught and then talking about just being kind to each other, then you say I don't understand what your teaching? That is exactly what I have mentioned in my other thread "Love, love say the Christians (but I say that they are liars!), that your talking about being kind to each other and not heeding the warnings.

                Again the people at the time of Prophet Noah peace be upon him were destroyed because they rejected Allah and the Day of Judgement and the warnings of Hell NOT because they didn't want to be nice to each other.

                Satan is nice to evil doers, that is not a pleasing thing. Why bother you might as well start talking about getting along with Satan and talking about love, kindness blah, blah, blah.

                Prophet Moses peace be upon him did not come down the mountain to talk about love with the idol worshippers

                As stated in my other thread, Christians are being evil, they quote love when they ignore Allah.

                There is only tolerance, with idol worshippers. Even our children are taught not to make fun out of the Christians for rubbish written in the bible.

                We don't share anything. A Christian male is no way in comparison to a Muslim Man, as he worships Allah, forbids evil and enjoins good, does not change Islam.

                I'll leave to say that if you don't repent you will go to Hell. You have this warning on your record on the Day of Judgement, and if you have not repented you will go to Hell.
                "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                  Originally posted by Supreme View Post
                  I think glo's post sums my thoughts up. 'Convert or go to Hell' seems like a method designed to bully and coerce people into accepting a belief or ideology, and there is no way I will be bullied into believing something, particularly something I regard as inherently false. Moreover, not only do I find the concept of God being a bully intrinsically difficult to accept, I have little interest in offering my worship to such a God. This is why many religions creep me out to no end, and why I shudder with revulsion when I see people refering to themselves as slaves of God, as worthless trash sanctified by His Grace alone, who look forward to an eternity of prostrating themselves in gratefulness for being kept out of the Cosmic Auschwitz that houses most of mankind.
                  I love Allah!

                  Also see you on the Day of Judgement and if you have not repented and neither has glo, not only will you be agreeing with her but going to Hell with her.

                  When somebody buys you something, do you not say thank-you to that person, or do they creep you out?
                  If someone saves your life do you not say thank-you to that person, or do they creep you out?
                  Why bother thanking your parents for taking care of you, and that you will ALWAYS be grateful and be there for them in your lifetime, or do your parents creep you out?

                  Allah has provided you with everything, your parents are nothing in comparison.

                  I am a servant of Allah, so are all the angels, creatures etc. We are happy, and content with our Lord, and this is the best of positions.

                  So you find that being grateful to Allah difficult now? Nay what it is, that people in the past even at the time of Prophet Noah peace be upon him rejected and Hell too, when Allah reminded them that he sends down the rains and provides everything, you are doing no different. Holding on to the life of this world.
                  Last edited by h-n; 06-25-2010, 07:19 PM.
                  "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                    Originally posted by Argamemnon View Post
                    "As to those who reject faith, it is same to them, you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe"
                    Thank-you, for quoting that from the Quran.
                    "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                      Originally posted by glo View Post
                      Exactly!
                      We are in God's hands, and he will guide us as he sees fit.
                      God knows best.
                      He's already sent Prophets to guide you, but you do not pay heed.
                      Allah has already taught us what is best for us, that to worship him only, to remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell.
                      "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                        Originally posted by h-n View Post
                        As stated in my other thread, Christians are being evil.
                        I guess there is not much left to say then.

                        I wish you God's peace and joy.
                        Peace
                        glo

                        Here I stand.
                        I can do no other.
                        May God help me.
                        Amen.

                        Come, let us worship and bow down •
                        and kneel before the Lord our Maker

                        [Psalm 95]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                          Originally posted by h-n View Post
                          Also see you on the Day of Judgement and if you have not repented and neither has glo, not only will you be agreeing with her but going to Hell with her.
                          Ohh, scary threat is scary! Fortunately, I do not believe in a place called 'Hell', at least not the horrifying place that the Abrahamic religions adopted from the pagan myths conjured up millennia ago in order to keep people praying, giving money and respecting the authority of their half god, half man rulers/ 'god chosen' kings. Nevertheless, such an argument is futile, as I do indeed repent daily for my sins, as I'm sure glo does.

                          When somebody buys you something, do you not say thank-you to that person, or do they creep you out?
                          If someone saves your life do you not say thank-you to that person, or do they creep you out?
                          Of course I do; but I thank them out of common courtesy and etiquette, not out of fear. Do you see the difference?

                          Why bother thanking your parents for taking care of you, and that you will ALWAYS be grateful and be there for them in your lifetime, or do your parents creep you out?
                          Sorry, but this argument is ridiculous at best and incoherent at worst. Refer to previous point.
                          Allah has provided you with everything, your parents are nothing in comparison.
                          I know, and I am grateful. But I am grateful out of respect, not out of fear of spending infinity burning in a cave underground.

                          I am a servant of Allah, so are all the angels, creatures etc. We are happy, and content with our Lord, and this is the best of positions.
                          But this position makes no sense; how can you be serving anyone but yourself when you repent and thus recieve a 'get out of Hell free' card? You're certainly not a slave if you're rewarded, and neither are you a slave when you only work for your own interests, and not the interests of the one you're slaving for.

                          So you find that being grateful to Allah difficult now? Nay what it is, that people in the past even at the time of Prophet Noah peace be upon him rejected and Hell too, when Allah reminded them that he sends down the rains and provides everything, you are doing no different. Holding on to the life of this world.
                          I'm not sure what this nonsense even means, however, I've lost any faith it'll help your argument come across as any more fathomable.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                            Originally posted by Supreme View Post
                            Ohh, scary threat is scary! Fortunately, I do not believe in a place called 'Hell', at least not the horrifying place that the Abrahamic religions adopted from the pagan myths conjured up millennia ago in order to keep people praying, giving money and respecting the authority of their half god, half man rulers/ 'god chosen' kings. Nevertheless, such an argument is futile, as I do indeed repent daily for my sins, as I'm sure glo does.

                            Of course I do; but I thank them out of common courtesy and etiquette, not out of fear. Do you see the difference?

                            Sorry, but this argument is ridiculous at best and incoherent at worst. Refer to previous point.

                            I know, and I am grateful. But I am grateful out of respect, not out of fear of spending infinity burning in a cave underground.

                            But this position makes no sense; how can you be serving anyone but yourself when you repent and thus recieve a 'get out of Hell free' card? You're certainly not a slave if you're rewarded, and neither are you a slave when you only work for your own interests, and not the interests of the one you're slaving for.

                            I'm not sure what this nonsense even means, however, I've lost any faith it'll help your argument come across as any more fathomable.
                            You say that people invent Islam, and a God, whilst you call yourself "supreme"??? What are you a supreme of? Nothing.

                            There is definitely a Hell, and I look forward to what you have to say about it when you are on the Day of Judgement. People are sent to Hell, as they rejected Islam. They deserve to go to Hell for their sins. You are the fuels of the fire Allah is not going to throw wood in there to keep it a light-you are the fuel! What you have done and said, as allowed those flames to surround you.

                            1. If you rejected Allah in Paradise you deserve to be sent to Hell.

                            2. If a beautiful woman came down from Paradise and you just said its OK that you take off your clothes and be lewd, you are proving that you are not good enough to go to Paradise so go to Hell.

                            3. If a child came from Paradise and you just fed them pork and said its OK to get drunk, you are proving that you are not good enough to go to Paradise.

                            4. If a Man came down from Paradise and you said its OK to accept homosexuality, then you are proving that you don't deserve to go to Paradise.

                            5. So the test in this world is brought to this world, if you won't accept Allah, won't treat others with respect and won't forbid evil and won't enjoin good, then you are proving that you cannot treat people in this world better, then you don't deserve to be surrounded by the best of people in Paradise. AS per the thread I've already written on "Satan refusing to prostrate" which covers about testing.


                            Allah does not wrong them, they sinful people wrong themselves -hence Hell. Just like if a person drinks alcohol and their kidney's don't work, or if they are being lewd and catch HIV, they have done that to themselves. Hell, you are the fuels of the fire, this is what you have done to yourselves.

                            So Hell is in response to your evil actions. People just quote any jargon that they hear from one person who is a non-Muslim and people like you quote it over and over again to try and go against Islam. So many threads are written about Hell, but you didn't write your rubbish there to question it!!! Just typical sinners just trying to throw anything to go against Islam.

                            People like you and in the past rejected the truth, for the life of this world. When Hell was mentioned they rejected it, so they wouldn't think about the consquences of their actions of rejecting the one God, and the Day of Judgement. What do you think was going to happen? If Hell stops people from repenting (which is a stupid thing to say, as its not Hell, but the choices that they are making, just like people who take drugs etc), that Allah is going to get rid of Hell? Would no one be commiting a sin if he did? No as they reject Islam for the life of this world. Even if he had got rid of Hell, you and others would still be rejecting Islam!! Hell they have received warnings for, just as people receive warnings when they smoke and drink, and take drugs etc, they still do it knowing it can cause them harm, but they ignore the warnings to avoid thinking of the consquences and just carry on living their rubbish life just as infidels do. So Hell is there, heed the warning or not, that is upto everybody to choose the path to Paradise or Hell.


                            What do you expect Muslims to do? Complain that you and other sinners are going to be sent to Hell if they don't repent? What an earth are you trying to imply, that we Muslims cannot accept that homosexuals, lewd people, idol worshippers etc are going to be sent to Hell? You think that were going to question if Islam is right just because the likes of you would be sent to Hell if you don't repent?? What a fool!!

                            You are not better then Prophet Jesus, Ibrahim, Noah, Lut peace be upon them etc. No Muslim is interested in what you have to say.

                            How much meat you stuff your face with, and you give no thanks to God.
                            How much fruit and vegetables you stuff your face with, and you give no thanks to God.

                            Its not the worst argument, we still stay and look after our parents-its a life time commitment, and Allah provides everything, so as we are grateful to our parents, it makes sense for people to see that we owe Allah everything and to give our thanks to him.

                            Your not more important then anyone else that Allah has destroyed. These countries are being destroyed right now. I thank Allah for that.

                            Don't repent, I don't care, I'm not going to get upset, and cry for you if you don't make it to Paradise. Also this warning is again written on your record, and if you have not repented it will be held against you that h-n told you about Hell that you did not heed the warning.

                            I am Allah's servant, and this is the best position in this world and the hereafter.
                            I love Allah, he is All-Mighty, All-Wise, All-knowing, All-Hearing, All-seeing, My Lord, My Master, Allah. All praise is due to him alone. I am a Muslim and I say that there is only one God, Allah and that Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah.

                            Last edited by h-n; 06-25-2010, 10:46 PM.
                            "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                              Originally posted by glo View Post
                              I guess there is not much left to say then.

                              I wish you God's peace and joy.
                              Bye, and we Muslims don't need infidels to wish that Allah provides us with peace and joy.
                              "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                salaam

                                to supreme - I thought you were a christian

                                to H-N - why are using the word "infidel" when it isnt even Islamic - Its a christain term that was used for the muslims during the crusades.

                                peace
                                The teachings of Islam can fail under no circumstances. With all our systems of culture and civilization, we can not go beyond Islam and, as a matter of fact, no human mind can go beyond the Qur'an.

                                (Letter of Goethe to Eckermann, Sir Henry Elliott's collection, 1865)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                  Originally posted by Zafran View Post
                                  salaam

                                  to supreme - I thought you were a christian

                                  to H-N - why are using the word "infidel" when it isnt even Islamic - Its a christain term that was used for the muslims during the crusades.

                                  peace
                                  As I'm talking in the language that they understand, infidel meaning a sinful person. That's like saying I can't use the word Devil, I have to use the word Shaytaan. Or I can't use the word "evil".

                                  Sister h-n.
                                  "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                    Originally posted by h-n View Post
                                    As I'm talking in the language that they understand, infidel meaning a sinful person. That's like saying I can't use the word Devil, I have to use the word Shaytaan. Or I can't use the word "evil".

                                    Sister h-n.
                                    salaam


                                    so whats your point of this thread - for Dawah or to scare people away from Islam??
                                    The teachings of Islam can fail under no circumstances. With all our systems of culture and civilization, we can not go beyond Islam and, as a matter of fact, no human mind can go beyond the Qur'an.

                                    (Letter of Goethe to Eckermann, Sir Henry Elliott's collection, 1865)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                      Originally posted by Zafran View Post
                                      salaam


                                      so whats your point of this thread - for Dawah or to scare people away from Islam??

                                      i have already explained myself, I am doing neither of the above.<_< The point of this thread was to let people know that you don't repent just because someone is being nice to you, you repent because you want Allah to be pleased with you and not to go to Hell with the losers. That is why the magicians still repented even though they had their hands and feet chopped off. You are obviously carrying the same misconceptions, from the west. I have explained that in "KIndness", this thread, and also "love, Love say the Christians (and I say that they are liars).

                                      So contact the Moderator with your complaints, instead of posting anymore to tell people your not actually reading my threads and just being critical. That explains why you haven't been critical of anything I said, just how I say things. Which again complain to the Moderator as I am not interested in the slightest of your complaints. I don't think I should have all my threads turned in a discussion of how I write directly about things.

                                      Or create your own threads and ask for non-Muslims to join you and not pay attention to me. I don't have a problem with that either.


                                      I am actually being better, as I could have gone into the comparitive section and you'll notice the difference etc, if you think this is worse, well it isn't. Anyone who has been on Ummah can tell you that. Yes, I have spoken to many non-Muslims who were wasting the time of Muslims. Or maybe I should just go into the comparitive section and then you can complain on how I treat non-Muslims who waste the time of Muslims, by not sincerely learning about Islam.
                                      Last edited by h-n; 06-26-2010, 03:27 PM.
                                      "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                        , sister h-n.

                                        If your method in giving dawah is like this, I am not sure non-Muslims will have an interest to come to Islam.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                          Originally posted by ardianto View Post
                                          , sister h-n.

                                          If your method in giving dawah is like this, I am not sure non-Muslims will have an interest to come to Islam.


                                          Again, being critical of how I write then what I say, complain to the Moderator.

                                          You obviously haven't read what I have written, then you wouldn't be quoting Dawah, and about them being put off when they are liars.

                                          Frankly there is nothing wrong with how I write. Who says I'm specifically talking to non-Muslims anyway?

                                          Your behind, people have already been told to repent, we are not starting now, we are coming to the end of these countries. We are not starting from the beginning to introduce Islam to them. So don't bother talking to me, like if we are going to sit there talking about Islam in the long term, instead of the US, UK etc being destroyed. So I'm happy that I have placed the first thread on IB was "Collapse of these countries" which helps people to understand what I see, I am not responsible for them not reading it and then talk to me like they are going to teach me how to kindly speak to people. Read, do you really think that a Muslim could learn alot if they were unkind anyway? We don't stop talking about Islam to non-Muslims, but I am talking to Muslims now.

                                          I have found that the Muslims who are critical of me, look less towards the Day of Judgement, the collapse of these countries, the Major signs of the Day of Judgemet then I do. I am not stupid to listen and follow somone who does not look towards the Day of Judgement more then I do.

                                          Also Allah has stated of the people who rejected the clear proofs were sent to Hell. Anyone who isn't repenting, I'm not going to treat them like if they are innocent, after all the natural disasters etc. Is Allah going to call them innocent on the Day of Judgement for rejecting the signs?

                                          I am writing about their misconceptions about people repenting to Allah, they don't repent just because someone is being nice to them.

                                          Also read the other thread on Call to Muslims being one Ummah.


                                          What is it that some of you Muslims don't understand, I am sharing what I know to help you be strong yourselves as when the Dajjal arrives etc ?

                                          I said I don't want to argue with the Muslims. So instead of the Muslims complaining they should read what I have written before complaining about it.
                                          Last edited by h-n; 06-26-2010, 04:01 PM.
                                          "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                            to supreme - I thought you were a christian
                                            ...yes, I am. Hence my Way of Life reading 'Christian'.

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                              Originally posted by ardianto View Post
                                              , sister h-n.

                                              If your method in giving dawah is like this, I am not sure non-Muslims will have an interest to come to Islam.

                                              the best tact to use is kindness however there is different tactic to use for dawah and being kind is just one in a long list.


                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                mashallah!! great post
                                                The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him)Said : “Whoever does not pray ‘Asr, all his good deeds are cancelled out.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (528)

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                  @ sister h-n :

                                                  I liked all you long threads, they reflect a great knowledge about islam, and I admire your franchise as well and your courage to say always the truth.

                                                  I want just to add a side-note to this thread so we all muslims remember one thing : That the islamic speech should have three different forms - though it should always be based on truth - depending on who is addressed by our speech :

                                                  1) if we are talking to muslims, then our arguments should be based on islamic proofs, using the qur'an and the ahadeeth, and mentioning fatwas of reliable muslim scholars, and we don't forget to be tender and kind with our muslim brothers and sisters. True muslims will obey if you advice them with arguments coming from Allah's book and from the Prophet peace and blessing be upon him.
                                                  (I learned on this forum to not say PBUH, but to say it in full words source..).

                                                  2) if we are talking to non-muslims who are peaceful and in a context of da'wah, we should be kind in our discussion : not insult them, not despise their beliefs. All we can do is to call them gently and ask them to think about logical arguments and show them what's wrong with their beliefs and what should be the truth. In this case, islamic arguments from qur'an and sunnah won't be so understandable by non-muslims as a first step, because they simply don't believe the qur'an is the words of Allah. We should have a methodology with priorities :
                                                  a) show them the existence of Allah.
                                                  b) the uniqueness of Allah : just One God.
                                                  c) the truth about Prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him, and all the other prophets Alayhum Assalam.
                                                  d) the qur'an is sent to us by Allah through his messenger Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him.
                                                  e) the basics of Islam.

                                                  3) if we are talking with non-muslims who are aggressive and hurting muslims, we should forget about da'wah in this case until the aggression is over : as defending muslim rights is a priority. And we should talk with the aggressors with a hard tone to show them that we don't accept to be attacked. However we should keep our reaction within islamic recommendation : our reaction should be proportional to the aggression we suffered (the eye by the eye, the tooth by the tooth, etc.).

                                                  But we also should not forget that all our actions should be for the sake of Allah, not to retaliate for our dignity, we should be slaves of Allah and we must follow our prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him, because he never took revenge for himself, he just defended the word of Allah.
                                                  Last edited by marwen; 06-26-2010, 10:23 PM.

                                                  "O you who believe! Fear ALLAH as He should be feared" [aal 'Imraan, 102]

                                                  يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ ٱتَّقُواْ ٱللَّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِۦ آل عِمرَان - 102



                                                  Comment


                                                  • #26
                                                    Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                    ^ subhanAllah brother! very enlightening!

                                                    And great work sis h-n!
                                                    [INDENT=3]
                                                    www.peacetv.tv
                                                    [/INDENT]



                                                    Comment


                                                    • #27
                                                      Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                      You say that people invent Islam, and a God, whilst you call yourself "supreme"??? What are you a supreme of? Nothing.
                                                      It's a username. Don't look too much into it.

                                                      There is definitely a Hell, and I look forward to what you have to say about it when you are on the Day of Judgement. People are sent to Hell, as they rejected Islam. They deserve to go to Hell for their sins. You are the fuels of the fire Allah is not going to throw wood in there to keep it a light-you are the fuel! What you have done and said, as allowed those flames to surround you.
                                                      Oh, I understand that Islam (and to an extent, Christianity) posits that people are going to eternally burn in excrutiating pain for simply believing something different. It also destroys any notion of a just God; if God was omniscient, He would almost certainly know what it would take to turn me to His 'true' religion- however, if he does not choose to act on this knowledge, and sends me to Hell for His own failings to fully alert me of His 'true' religion, than he is not just.

                                                      Allah does not wrong them, they sinful people wrong themselves -hence Hell. Just like if a person drinks alcohol and their kidney's don't work, or if they are being lewd and catch HIV, they have done that to themselves. Hell, you are the fuels of the fire, this is what you have done to yourselves.
                                                      Again, what kind of just God kills someone for their sins and then sends them to Hell afterwards? Talk about adding insult to injury...


                                                      People like you and in the past rejected the truth, for the life of this world. When Hell was mentioned they rejected it, so they wouldn't think about the consquences of their actions of rejecting the one God, and the Day of Judgement. What do you think was going to happen? If Hell stops people from repenting (which is a stupid thing to say, as its not Hell, but the choices that they are making, just like people who take drugs etc), that Allah is going to get rid of Hell? Would no one be commiting a sin if he did? No as they reject Islam for the life of this world. Even if he had got rid of Hell, you and others would still be rejecting Islam!!
                                                      You just don't get it, do you? You've yet to find me any evidence that this Hell of yours even exists. People aren't going to be scared of something they render false; I don't see Hell as any more real, realistic or even logical than Hogwarts from Harry Potter.

                                                      Hell they have received warnings for, just as people receive warnings when they smoke and drink, and take drugs etc, they still do it knowing it can cause them harm, but they ignore the warnings to avoid thinking of the consquences and just carry on living their rubbish life just as infidels do. So Hell is there, heed the warning or not, that is upto everybody to choose the path to Paradise or Hell.
                                                      Actually, the Islamic concept of Paradise seems thoroughly uninviting. I have no desire of having (sexually immoral!) intercourse with 72 virgins, or spending eternity prostrating in thanks to a diety lacking in self esteem: it all seems rather dull.

                                                      You are not better then Prophet Jesus, Ibrahim, Noah, Lut peace be upon them etc. No Muslim is interested in what you have to say.
                                                      Then why are you quoting my posts, if what I have to say is of no interest to you? How irrational!


                                                      Its not the worst argument, we still stay and look after our parents-its a life time commitment, and Allah provides everything, so as we are grateful to our parents, it makes sense for people to see that we owe Allah everything and to give our thanks to him.
                                                      I give thanks and repent in my prayers daily.
                                                      Don't repent, I don't care, I'm not going to get upset, and cry for you if you don't make it to Paradise.
                                                      Likewise.

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #28
                                                        Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                        Originally posted by cat eyes View Post
                                                        the best tact to use is kindness however there is different tactic to use for dawah and being kind is just one in a long list.
                                                        Thanks for willing to mention that, as of course Allah even provided plagues to the people of Egypt as a warning.
                                                        "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #29
                                                          Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                          Originally posted by kite runner View Post
                                                          mashallah!! great post
                                                          Thank-you for taking the time to read it and for letting me know.
                                                          "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #30
                                                            Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                            Originally posted by marwen View Post
                                                            @ sister h-n :

                                                            I liked all you long threads, they reflect a great knowledge about islam, and I admire your franchise as well and your courage to say always the truth.

                                                            I want just to add a side-note to this thread so we all muslims remember one thing : That the islamic speech should have three different forms - though it should always be based on truth - depending on who is addressed by our speech :

                                                            1) if we are talking to muslims, then our arguments should be based on islamic proofs, using the qur'an and the ahadeeth, and mentioning fatwas of reliable muslim scholars, and we don't forget to be tender and kind with our muslim brothers and sisters. True muslims will obey if you advice them with arguments coming from Allah's book and from the Prophet peace and blessing be upon him.
                                                            (I learned on this forum to not say PBUH, but to say it in full words source..).

                                                            2) if we are talking to non-muslims who are peaceful and in a context of da'wah, we should be kind in our discussion : not insult them, not despise their beliefs. All we can do is to call them gently and ask them to think about logical arguments and show them what's wrong with their beliefs and what should be the truth. In this case, islamic arguments from qur'an and sunnah won't be so understandable by non-muslims as a first step, because they simply don't believe the qur'an is the words of Allah. We should have a methodology with priorities :
                                                            a) show them the existence of Allah.
                                                            b) the uniqueness of Allah : just One God.
                                                            c) the truth about Prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him, and all the other prophets Alayhum Assalam.
                                                            d) the qur'an is sent to us by Allah through his messenger Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him.
                                                            e) the basics of Islam.

                                                            3) if we are talking with non-muslims who are aggressive and hurting muslims, we should forget about da'wah in this case until the aggression is over : as defending muslim rights is a priority. And we should talk with the aggressors with a hard tone to show them that we don't accept to be attacked. However we should keep our reaction within islamic recommendation : our reaction should be proportional to the aggression we suffered (the eye by the eye, the tooth by the tooth, etc.).

                                                            But we also should not forget that all our actions should be for the sake of Allah, not to retaliate for our dignity, we should be slaves of Allah and we must follow our prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him, because he never took revenge for himself, he just defended the word of Allah.
                                                            Salam,

                                                            Thanks for taking the time to read them. I don't have any problems with your advice. Just that people should just complain to the Moderator instead of complaining how I write on my threads. After reading "Calling Muslims to be an Ummah" helped for me, so am avoiding arguments.

                                                            I have learnt by reading the Quran at home, remembering Allah and the Day of Judgement. I have not used any Scholars to understand Islam. Even some people did not believe me on Ummah, but I asked them were I would have copied them from as they do read from many Scholars, which I got no response. They can have that confirmed on the Day of Judgement. I have used one link for the Major signs of the Day of Judgement thread on there. But no one has taught me not to think about building a Muslim state.


                                                            I do not usually quote hadiths etc, as majority its about how to live in this world, and really I don't like looking towards living in this world. I don't change religion, I accept the hadiths etc. But I rarely talk about how to live in this world.

                                                            I am happy to share, as everything is from Allah. What we know about will be talked about on the Day of Judgement. Islam is simple, and if anybody gives thought on it, can understand what I had written, and say oh yes, that is easy. Best to learn and read for a short amount of time, instead of spending years asking the same question because you couldn't be bothered to read it.

                                                            So thank-you, I appreciate it.

                                                            Sister h-n
                                                            Last edited by h-n; 06-26-2010, 11:27 PM.
                                                            "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #31
                                                              Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                              Originally posted by Supreme View Post
                                                              It's a username. Don't look too much into it.



                                                              Oh, I understand that Islam (and to an extent, Christianity) posits that people are going to eternally burn in excrutiating pain for simply believing something different. It also destroys any notion of a just God; if God was omniscient, He would almost certainly know what it would take to turn me to His 'true' religion- however, if he does not choose to act on this knowledge, and sends me to Hell for His own failings to fully alert me of His 'true' religion, than he is not just.



                                                              Again, what kind of just God kills someone for their sins and then sends them to Hell afterwards? Talk about adding insult to injury...




                                                              You just don't get it, do you? You've yet to find me any evidence that this Hell of yours even exists. People aren't going to be scared of something they render false; I don't see Hell as any more real, realistic or even logical than Hogwarts from Harry Potter.



                                                              Actually, the Islamic concept of Paradise seems thoroughly uninviting. I have no desire of having (sexually immoral!) intercourse with 72 virgins, or spending eternity prostrating in thanks to a diety lacking in self esteem: it all seems rather dull.


                                                              Then why are you quoting my posts, if what I have to say is of no interest to you? How irrational!



                                                              I give thanks and repent in my prayers daily.

                                                              Likewise.
                                                              The very God who created you. I can equally look at your existence as a disgusting or a beautiful one.

                                                              Whatever God does is right and good. Good is defined by God, not outside of God.
                                                              Seen A Warrior's Burst Of Rage
                                                              Seen A Martyr's Life Outgrow His Age
                                                              Seen Vile In Great Men
                                                              Seen Beauty In False Women
                                                              Seen Rivals Of A Genius
                                                              Seen Tyrants Hailed Among Us
                                                              Seen The Envy Of A Friend
                                                              Seen Love Draw Its Own End

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #32
                                                                Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                Originally posted by An33za View Post
                                                                ^ subhanAllah brother! very enlightening!

                                                                And great work sis h-n!
                                                                Thanks An33za.
                                                                Last edited by h-n; 06-27-2010, 01:50 AM.
                                                                "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                                                                Comment


                                                                • #33
                                                                  Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                  Originally posted by Supreme View Post
                                                                  It's a username. Don't look too much into it.
                                                                  Oh, I understand that Islam (and to an extent, Christianity) posits that people are going to eternally burn in excrutiating pain for simply believing something different. It also destroys any notion of a just God; if God was omniscient, He would almost certainly know what it would take to turn me to His 'true' religion- however, if he does not choose to act on this knowledge, and sends me to Hell for His own failings to fully alert me of His 'true' religion, than he is not just.
                                                                  Again, what kind of just God kills someone for their sins and then sends them to Hell afterwards? Talk about adding insult to injury...
                                                                  You just don't get it, do you? You've yet to find me any evidence that this Hell of yours even exists. People aren't going to be scared of something they render false; I don't see Hell as any more real, realistic or even logical than Hogwarts from Harry Potter.
                                                                  Actually, the Islamic concept of Paradise seems thoroughly uninviting. I have no desire of having (sexually immoral!) intercourse with 72 virgins, or spending eternity prostrating in thanks to a diety lacking in self esteem: it all seems rather dull.
                                                                  Then why are you quoting my posts, if what I have to say is of no interest to you? How irrational!
                                                                  I give thanks and repent in my prayers daily.
                                                                  Likewise.
                                                                  Right so you just sit there and the first username that comes to your head is "Supreme" ???? There's definitely something wrong with that.

                                                                  Your a joke, you keep on blaming Allah if you go to Hell, when your own actions have sent you there, that is what you have done to yourself.

                                                                  Allah is Merciful, you going to Hell if you don't repent does not change that.
                                                                  Allah is Merciful, a person being malicious does not change that.

                                                                  I have written on tests, ie this thread, "Murder", "Satan refusing to prostrate" and "Show me, Show me (but we're humans)" threads

                                                                  If you were in Paradise and you said I don't like Allah, then why should you be kept there??? So you deserve to be thrown out, why should you be thrown out to another world still provided by Allah??

                                                                  You say you believe a God, what and earth are you learning what would happen to sinful people? That Allah was going to treat them to some ice-cream? I suggest you read what a person has written before making the same dribble over and over again. Why should Alalh continue to let someone live as they want if they refuse to accept him. Would you be saying that the angels are oppressed too? We are happy with Allah. You say you worship God, but you can't say what happens to sinful people? Just open your own thread to let people know.

                                                                  Nevermind about virgins or their numbers, you probably never met one. Of course they aren't used to marrying Virgins as much in the West, considering its also about behaviour, as virgins were shy and not liking to show their nakedness. Nowadays they are happy to sit and show their bodies so they teach females also to already be lewd before having sex. Also I have written the "Society evil" thread. I can see that in the West people are willing to have sex with many people, and females trying to take someone's else's husband knowing that he has children and married. So they are happy to share their Males with other females. Also that all Males who reject Allah, the Day of Judgement, in Paradise and Hell are just boring, and sissys compared to a Muslim Man, so again you don't have to concern yourself with marrying, as if you did get married to a pious women she would have told you to shut up about your dribble.

                                                                  We Muslims are also happy to save ourselves from Hell, so to not stand with people like yourselves, Pharoah, etc.

                                                                  I'm quoting what your writing as to respond to your posts.

                                                                  Oh good, so no need to post anymore dribble. In future just open your own threads.
                                                                  Last edited by h-n; 06-26-2010, 11:32 PM.
                                                                  "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • #34
                                                                    Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                    [60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

                                                                    [60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

                                                                    ........

                                                                    [16:125} You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.

                                                                    .....

                                                                    [29:46] Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."

                                                                    [29:47] We have revealed to you this scripture, and those whom we blessed with the previous scripture will believe in it. Also, some of your people will believe in it. Indeed, those who disregard our revelations are the real disbelievers.

                                                                    .......

                                                                    So tell me, h-n, why the obvious antagonism and hatred of non-Muslims? Why do you insult people simply because they do not share your beliefs?

                                                                    I shall keep you in mind the next time some nice Muslim is trying to convince me what a wonderful existence it would be live under Khilafah. I will remind them that no matter what promises they make and how they envision it, at some point it will come under the rule of people like h-n and life for non-Muslims would become a living hell.

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                                                                    • #35
                                                                      Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                      Originally posted by titus View Post
                                                                      [60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

                                                                      [60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

                                                                      ........

                                                                      [16:125} You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.

                                                                      .....

                                                                      [29:46] Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."

                                                                      [29:47] We have revealed to you this scripture, and those whom we blessed with the previous scripture will believe in it. Also, some of your people will believe in it. Indeed, those who disregard our revelations are the real disbelievers.

                                                                      .......

                                                                      So tell me, h-n, why the obvious antagonism and hatred of non-Muslims? Why do you insult people simply because they do not share your beliefs?

                                                                      I shall keep you in mind the next time some nice Muslim is trying to convince me what a wonderful existence it would be live under Khilafah. I will remind them that no matter what promises they make and how they envision it, at some point it will come under the rule of people like h-n and life for non-Muslims would become a living hell.
                                                                      The thing is taht non-Muslims are fighting Muslims in one way or another. Its impossible to befriend them.
                                                                      Seen A Warrior's Burst Of Rage
                                                                      Seen A Martyr's Life Outgrow His Age
                                                                      Seen Vile In Great Men
                                                                      Seen Beauty In False Women
                                                                      Seen Rivals Of A Genius
                                                                      Seen Tyrants Hailed Among Us
                                                                      Seen The Envy Of A Friend
                                                                      Seen Love Draw Its Own End

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • #36
                                                                        Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                        The thing is taht non-Muslims are fighting Muslims in one way or another. Its impossible to befriend them.
                                                                        Sorry, but that is B.S.

                                                                        If you want to treat everyone as your enemy then it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. You should be better and smarter than that.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • #37
                                                                          Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                          Originally posted by titus View Post
                                                                          Sorry, but that is B.S.

                                                                          If you want to treat everyone as your enemy then it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. You should be better and smarter than that.
                                                                          Its BS just cuz you dont like it? Well Id need a more convincing reason to label something as BS.

                                                                          Well, Muslims and non-Muslims are anti-thesis of each other. I dont see them to be friends. You make friendship with people who share things with you, with whom you feel a connection. I wonder what sort of a connection a God-fearing Muslim can feel with a non-Muslim?
                                                                          Seen A Warrior's Burst Of Rage
                                                                          Seen A Martyr's Life Outgrow His Age
                                                                          Seen Vile In Great Men
                                                                          Seen Beauty In False Women
                                                                          Seen Rivals Of A Genius
                                                                          Seen Tyrants Hailed Among Us
                                                                          Seen The Envy Of A Friend
                                                                          Seen Love Draw Its Own End

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • #38
                                                                            Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                            Well, Muslims and non-Muslims are anti-thesis of each other.
                                                                            That's not what the Quran says. In fact from what I know of the Quran it says quite the opposite.

                                                                            The Quran allows marriage with non-Muslims and explicitly does not forbid friendship with non-Muslims. My question would be what sort of God-fearing Muslims would question the Quran by saying that non-Muslims and Muslims cannot befriend each other.

                                                                            Its BS just cuz you dont like it? Well Id need a more convincing reason to label something as BS.
                                                                            I got it from the Quran. Do you think I have misinterpreted it? Does the Quran forbid friendships between Muslims and non-Muslims?

                                                                            From everything I have read Muhammad did not believe that all non-Muslims were his enemy, and he led people in battle, so why should you?

                                                                            Believe it or not, not every non-Muslim is an enemy of Islam. If you believe everyone is your enemy then you need to get out more because you could not be more wrong.

                                                                            Also, do not confuse "not believing in Islam" with "being and enemy of Islam". They are not the same.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • #39
                                                                              Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                              Originally posted by titus View Post
                                                                              That's not what the Quran says. In fact from what I know of the Quran it says quite the opposite.

                                                                              The Quran allows marriage with non-Muslims and explicitly does not forbid friendship with non-Muslims. My question would be what sort of God-fearing Muslims would question the Quran by saying that non-Muslims and Muslims cannot befriend each other.



                                                                              I got it from the Quran. Do you think I have misinterpreted it? Does the Quran forbid friendships between Muslims and non-Muslims?

                                                                              From everything I have read Muhammad did not believe that all non-Muslims were his enemy, and he led people in battle, so why should you?

                                                                              Believe it or not, not every non-Muslim is an enemy of Islam. If you believe everyone is your enemy then you need to get out more because you could not be more wrong.

                                                                              Also, do not confuse "not believing in Islam" with "being and enemy of Islam". They are not the same.
                                                                              as far as I am concerned, Muslim man can marry a monotheistic non-Muslim woman of Christian or Judaic faith. As far as I know, monotheism does not exist in the latter two religions anymore.

                                                                              The non-Muslim rejects the God that a Muslim takes as Lord. In order to please our Lord as a Muslim, we should not be friend those who say vile things about our Lord and reject His existence and the final religion chosen by Him aka Islam.
                                                                              Seen A Warrior's Burst Of Rage
                                                                              Seen A Martyr's Life Outgrow His Age
                                                                              Seen Vile In Great Men
                                                                              Seen Beauty In False Women
                                                                              Seen Rivals Of A Genius
                                                                              Seen Tyrants Hailed Among Us
                                                                              Seen The Envy Of A Friend
                                                                              Seen Love Draw Its Own End

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • #40
                                                                                Re: Non-Muslims and Islam

                                                                                why doesn't monotheism exist in judaism anymore?
                                                                                Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
                                                                                -Plato

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