If spamming and trolling what rocks the boat of bosses of this place and this is how their donating members get their jollies, lets give them some, for I can see no other reason for them to allow you retard to remain here a moment after you little prats reveal youselves

Spamming is posting something without points.
i have several points but no attempts at answers.

Trolling is deliberatly trying to cause trouble and greif & being insulting.
None of the above applies to my question...where are the ummah when massacers happen in Iraq and Soamlia and the Sudan etc etc.

Pointlessly replying that someone is a spammer, without making a point....Is Spamming.
Calling someone a retard and a prat is ......trolling.

I liked the article.it spoke a lot of truths.

None of the above applies to my question...where are the ummah when massacers happen in Iraq and Soamlia and the Sudan etc etc.

busy with their own businesses.Leave Iraq out of these massacres.or were you talking about Saddam's actions?

and the one who doesnt pray ( after been giving advice and the chance to repent and turn back to their religion).

Originally Posted by Aziz

says where,the Quran?
a specific verse please.

i'm writing this not because i have knowlege but because if i am wrong, i know someone will correct me and i'm interested in the question too. i'm pretty sure it's not in the qur'an, but from the ahadith.
in effect, someone who doesn't pray is eligible for death because not praying makes you an apostate. so that point in the article was inaccurate.
the more i think about it - no, i'm sure it's not in the qur'an because the death sentence for apostasy is not in the qur'an - so they are both from the ahadith.

Originally Posted by barney

And to continue my rant at myself.

How come every muslim and their pet cat protested at the Mohammd cartoons but diddnt raise a word when "life of Brian" by monty python mocked Isa?
Or how come they dont burn down a French Embassy for allowing the putting of Cartoons of God (the same god as allah yeah?) pictured on a cloud throwing thunderbolts around.

Basically, double-standards.

this is the first time i have heard of life of Brian . Remember , Muslims took long 4 to 5 months to protest against the cartoon.


anyway , Chrisitans are used to mock Jesus (p ) .....i read several jokes on Jesus (p ) in Readers Digest & elsewhere . Muslims never do this with Muhammed (p ) or any other Prophet . I m sure , if they come to know about the slander u mentioned in ur post , they will start the protest with all the cats they have

may be , sis kittygal ? & neice kitten of other forum will be happy to supply their cats


all u have to do is let them know ...... or ask BBC , CNN to publish about the picture .

BTW , why throwing thunderbolts around is offensive ? Can u explain more ?

Originally Posted by barney

How come every muslim and their pet cat protested at the Mohammd cartoons but diddnt raise a word when "life of Brian" by monty python mocked Isa?

Personally, I get a little annoyed at the mockeries of Isa, not as much as the mockery of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Why? Because the mockery of Isa is of the 'son of god', not of Isa the prophet of God... it is just so detached, to me, that it almost feels like they are talking about a totally different person.

Other than that, I am already used to seeing the biggest mockery of Isa ever (in my opinion)- statues of him almost naked on a cross.

Or how come they dont burn down a French Embassy for allowing the putting of Cartoons of God (the same god as allah yeah?) pictured on a cloud throwing thunderbolts around.

God is not a human and is perfectly capable of defending Himself... any one who draws such a foolish picture of God is obviously at idiot and not worth attending to. Also, they don't label it as the 'Muslim' God, so that makes it a little less offensive to me as a Muslim.

Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

anyway , Chrisitans are used to mock Jesus (p ) .....i read several jokes on Jesus (p ) in Readers Digest & elsewhere . Muslims never do this with Muhammed (p ) or any other Prophet .

Greetings Muslim Woman

How does reading jokes about Jesus in Reader's Digest (and elsewhere) lead you to the conclusion that 'Christians are used to mocking Jesus'???
Are all people who write for Reader's Digest (and elsewhere) Christians?? Are even any people who write for Reader's Digest (and elsewhere) Christians??
And if so, how do you know?

Did Christians readers of the Reader's Digest (and elsewhere) find those jokes funny? Or offensive?
And if so, how do you know?

I am sure I would be able to have some interesting discussions with you, if you laid off the sweeping generalisations ...

Peace

Muslim Woman

Chrisitans are used to mock Jesus (p ) .....i read several jokes on Jesus (p ) in Readers Digest & elsewhere . Muslims never do this with Muhammed (p ) or any other Prophet .

You seem to lack the ability to distinguish between "are used to mock" and tolerance. Not every one issues death threats and burns down buildings as a "protest".

Originally Posted by NoName55

If spamming and trolling what rocks the boat of bosses of this place and this is how their donating members get their jollies, lets give them some, for I can see no other reason for them to allow you retard to remain here a moment after you little prats reveal youselves

Please don't insult people like that, it doesn't convey a good message about Islam and Muslims.


As for the article, I don't really see what is wrong with it, these things should be a bigger issue. I don't agree with point seven, as there are already tons of condemnations of terrorism in literature, enough to make you go bonkers, but there should definately be more about the other problems of the community.

We can only right the wrongs of others once we have solved our crimes too.

Salaam/ peace ;

Originally Posted by glo

I am sure I would be able to have some interesting discussions with you, if you laid off the sweeping generalisations ...

Peace

ok

sorry if u r hurt by my sweeping generalisations ....let me explain .

I don't think , Muslims are the owners or publishers of Readers Digest . I m 100 % sure Muslims did not write those jokes either as we respect all Prophets (pbut).

The meg is published in Chrisitian majority countries & not only 1 or 2 jokes , i saw several jokes days after days or u may say , years after years .

Also , i read about ad / joke where Jesus (p) played gamble with devil. I also read so many Church funnies .......surely Muslims did not write those . It's only possible for Christians to write those jokes because they know wha't going on inside churches.


These types of jokes & ad give me an impression that Christians are not that sensitive as Muslims are about religion / Prophet .


If u want a more serious ans , then may visit this link :

A Message To The Non-Muslims

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post773363 (A Message To The Non-Muslims.)


I asked there , Why is that Christians are so sensitive about Muslims opinion that is expressed with full respect to Jesus (p) but they don’t react much ( at least as same as they do with Muslims ) when it’s the question of Jews opinion ???


If it's a question of tolerance that a participant pointed out , then how come Chrisitians love & tolerance dry up ( oooppsss ,not all's but some or many Chrisitians ) when it's the case with Muslims ?

Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

Salaam/ peace ;



ok

sorry if u r hurt by my sweeping generalisations ....let me explain .

I don't think , Muslims are the owners or publishers of Readers Digest . I m 100 % sure Muslims did not write those jokes either as we respect all Prophets (pbut).

The meg is published in Chrisitian majority countries & not only 1 or 2 jokes , i saw several jokes days after days or u may say , years after years .

Also , i read about ad / joke where Jesus (p) played gamble with devil. I also read so many Church funnies .......surely Muslims did not write those . It's only possible for Christians to write those jokes because they know wha't going on inside churches.


These types of jokes & ad give me an impression that Christians are not that sensitive as Muslims are about religion / Prophet .


If u want a more serious ans , then may visit this link :

A Message To The Non-Muslims

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post773363 (A Message To The Non-Muslims.)


I asked there , Why is that Christians are so sensitive about Muslims opinion that is expressed with full respect to Jesus (p) but they don’t react much ( at least as same as they do with Muslims ) when it’s the question of Jews opinion ???


If it's a question of tolerance that a participant pointed out , then how come Chrisitians love & tolerance dry up ( oooppsss ,not all's but some or many Chrisitians ) when it's the case with Muslims ?

The fact the U.S. has a Christian majority doesn't translate into Christians editing Reader's Digest. You are correct that Christians probably aren't as "sensitive" as Muslims when it comes to their religion. We live in a secular society, which most prefer, and being offended sometimes comes with the territory. Instead of using up all our organizational power to counter jokes and cartoons, Christians save the juice for more pressing concerns, like religious discrimination, abortion, and the overall trend of censoring all things deemed to be Christian in society.

These types of jokes & ad give me an impression that Christians are not that sensitive as Muslims are about religion / Prophet .

You still can't seem to understand the difference between sensitivity and tolerance.
I can feel anger yet allow someone else there right to their opinion.
If when I feel anger I go and threaten to kill people because they expressed there opinion, that is not respect, that is intolerance.

Salaam/ peace ;

Originally Posted by Keltoi

The fact the U.S. has a Christian majority doesn't translate into Christians editing Reader's Digest.

what's the meaning ? Americans don't read Readers Digest ?

Instead of using up all our organizational power to counter jokes and cartoons, Christians save the juice for more pressing concerns, like religious discrimination, abortion, and the overall trend of censoring all things deemed to be Christian in society.

don't know what u r trying to say . The word
' abortion ' reminded me that many US Christians supported Bush on abortion ground. Thus they gave their full support to Bush who was a proven liar & killer of thousands & thousands innocent Iraqi people including kids.


They knew that Bush will surely kill more innocent people in Iraq , still they gave more inmportance on unborn babies in USA. US Christians mothers & doctors are killing babies & the Iraqi people must pay the price .



To me , it's a double standard of US Christians . May be u have ur own explanation that it's not.

Originally Posted by sankelegs

in effect, someone who doesn't pray is eligible for death because not praying makes you an apostate. so that point in the article was inaccurate.
the more i think about it - no, i'm sure it's not in the qur'an because the death sentence for apostasy is not in the qur'an - so they are both from the ahadith.

Well since nobody seemed to respond to this, I'll take the liberty if you guys don't mind.
Firstly, I seriously don't think that a person not praying makes them an apostate. If it does, then any Muslim that commits a sin can also be called an apostate because he's doing something against God's wishes. Obviously, this is not the case. Apostasy in my opinion is failing to perform any of the five pillars, and most importantly not believing in the Oneness of Allah and the message of the prophet Mohammed (pbuh). Failing to perform one or two of those makes a person a weak Muslim, but not an apostate.

Secondly, I think you all know my stance on apostasy. As snakelegs said, there's no mention for a punishment for those who leave Islam in the Qur'an, on the contrary, it actually mentions people who apostate and come back to Islam and apostate again, etc... and only a few ahadeeth mention death to apostates, which we discussed in another thread and noted that they have very strict conditions that have to be met before a person can be eligable to be executed.

As for the article, I don't know what u guys are complaining about. I see a lot of it as totally valid and am quite surpised to see fellow Muslims rejecting the points mentioned. As for who wrote the article, I didn't see any names, but the site it's on is not bad, or anti-Islamic. So I really don't see what the fuss is about.

As for the points:

Poverty-I think that Muslims actually do protest against poverty, but not strictly as Muslims, but as people of the world along with other groups of people. One other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of poverty in this world is actually in places where a lot of Muslims live.

Honor killings-I think the reason why a lot of people aren't protesting this is because there's very little awareness of it. It's quite rare that you hear about these cases, and I only knew about it by visiting one of those anti-Islamic sites where they threw a bunch of articles talking about this in my face. Nevertheless, I agree that people who know about this should definetely protest it because it's completely against Islam and what we believe, and is making Islam look bad to those who don't know much about it.

Child labor-I'm no expert on this so I'm just gonna ask a question here...is there such thing as legal child labor? I'm sure there must be...and I think that what the article is talking about is the illegal kind. I see nothing wrong with children living in poor families working to help support their families, but children being trafficked and all that or getting badly underpaid or not paid at all is definetely wrong. I think the article has to be more specific about that if they want support for it.

Suppression of cultures-I don't know if protesting against this will really do anything positive, unless what is meant here are things like banning hijab in schools, etc. This however is not suppression of cultures, but supression of religions, and those are two different things, and yes I do think that we should protest things that force us to not fulfill our religious rights which are also our constitutional rights given you live in a country like France, etc. But my opinion is that if you don't want your culture to be suppressed, instead of protesting, share your culture with others!

Death fatwas-And the controversy begins... Although I can see how some individuals from around the world can be considered enemies of Islam, we as Muslims don't have the jurisdiction to kill them if they are attacking from non-Muslim countries. Even if they were in Muslim countries, you'd have to sit and talk to them first, and only if they insist on continuing their attacks are we allowed to kill them.
Secondly, death is not only dealt in retaliation, but also for adultery and certain cases of apostasy, BUT only within Islamic countries. You can't for example kill a woman in the US that slept with a man that's not her husband. That's crazy.
So should we protest against these death fatwas? If you have A LOT of people, yes, because if you don't, you'll probably get one on your own head.
I think it would be more effective though to actually sit with the people issuing these fatwas and convince them with scripture that they are wrong. I mean they can't ignore scripture if they REALLY doing this in the name of Allah.

Terrorism-Now there's one that I'm really down for. Muslims should definetely stand up against this, as well as things like suicide bombings, etc., because they are things that are completely against Islam.

Unfortunately (I actually wanted to write an article about this), Muslims these days feel like they should be protesting the dispicable actions of non-Muslims against Muslims before protesting the dispicable actions of Muslims against both Muslims and non-Muslims. In a way, that's understandable, but on the other hand, if they do protest against the actions of some of their 'evil brethren', wouldn't that make Islam as an ummah look better to the international community while at the same time be a fulfillment of God's commands to us. Like that one hadith, if you see something evil being done try to change it with your hand, and if you can't do that then change it with your words, and if you can't do that either, then hate it in your heart. In my opinion, now that virutally everybody has Internet access, there's no excuse for anyone to not be able to perform the second one.

Seeing that everyone has gone off topic and insulting one and another