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Thread: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

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    Abz Iz Back!!! Array Abz2000's Avatar
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    Default Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    A lot of political games are being played in the country in which I am residing,
    Looks like they've lost the confidence of the people due to they're kufr and tyranny so are trying to play the old western game and get 50% on board by pretending to get them equal rights, when in reality they are trying to strip them of what respect they have while semi-disrobing them to sell soaps and chocolates,

    Many of us acknowledge differences between men and women while some fall into the rigged game of political correctness and pretend that it's all the same,

    Has anyone noticed how men drive differently and women get cheaper car insurance? how men make risky split second decisions with less regard for established norms, make adjustments quicker in "bending rules/allowances" whether at baggage weight check at the airport, and also are more prone to take bribes? How the family automatically delegates control to the man when on holiday or when the car breaks down?
    Do women like the idea of a man who throws his arms up and looks blankly at the woman when things go wrong?
    how men are attracted to vulnerable rather than macho pant wearing women?
    How boys listen less than girls and are more disrptive and strong headed?

    Is it because men are created for and given the physical tools and strength to take responsibility in overall administration and because they feel the man made box is just a guideline within their control to mold as they see necessary?

    I came across this during my search and it seemed to make sense, (acknowledgement of differences is difficult to find in this brave new world of pol cor


    As a woman and a psychologist who has treated women and couples in the last two decades, I find that as I get older, I make a lot more comments to both male and female patients about how the sexes differ. Let’s take an every day example. A woman complains that her husband or male partner does not listen. Women often complain that a male counterpart wants to provide advice when she talks about a problem. We women can feel unheard in this situation, as we would like our partners to remark on the content of our feelings. Sound familiar?

    When I am talking with patients, I often try to normalize the above example as one way that men and women are different. Although it may be that a couple is not compatible because of difficulties communicating, I am rarely worried about a partnership based on different communication styles. Rather, I try to educate men, women and couples about the differences in perceptions regarding what is ideal communication. Because a man offers advice does not mean that he does not care. A man offering pragmatic sensibilities seems to be evidence that he is listening! When I say this to my women patients, they are often relieved.

    Yet, I find myself sometimes experiencing a curious anxiety when I point out sex and gender differences between women and men. The way men and women listen and talk is just one example. I can get even more anxious when I imply that men process emotions differently and they respond to feelings in a way that can seem foreign to us women.

    This raises the question, are women the same as men? Are we different? And if so, can we live with the idea of difference in a post 1970’s feminist world?

    Talking openly about the biological differences between men and women can be complicated. Louann Brizendine, M.D. wrote a bestselling book in 2006 about the way male and female brains and bodies differ. Whatever readers or reviewers thought about the book, it has been translated into 30 languages and obviously speaks to something we women are concerned about, which is talking about how men and women are different. Of course, socialization and the way we are raised plays an important role, but biology does seem to matter. This may not be news to young women and men, but for women in Brizendine’s generation and my own, such talk can feel like heresy. Brizendine brings this up in the epilogue of her book:

    “There are those who wish there were no differences between men and women. In the 1970’s at the University of California, Berkeley, the buzzword among young women was “mandatory unisex,” which meant that it was politically incorrect even to mention sex difference.”

    Something curious happened along the way for women exposed to feminist beliefs. Those of us in our 40’s and beyond were reared in a time in which we felt we had to deny differences between the sexes. This message had a purpose. We had to justify equal rights and equal pay. Although I can’t say that we have really achieved either, it certainly is better than it has been, at least in the United States. Yet, our current state of external inequality makes it harder to talk about internal and biological differences.*

    Brizendine goes on to say, “The fear of discrimination based on difference runs deep, and for many years assumptions about sex differences went scientifically unexamined for fear that women wouldn’t be able to claim equality with men. But pretending that women and men are the same, while doing a disservice to both men and women, ultimately hurts women. Perpetuating the myth of the male norm means ignoring women’s real, biological differences in severity, susceptibility and treatment of disease. It also ignores the different ways that they process thoughts and therefore perceive what is important.”

    Where does that leave us? Especially as a therapist, I am mindful of not wanting to reduce complaints to differences between the sexes, as we all have our own individual responsibility when it comes to our partnerships. Additionally, I don’t want to bash men. But how did it become the case that talking about biological differences reifies the idea that women are less than equal?

    Just because men and women have different ways of thinking about things does not make women inferior. It would be nice if men and women can both acknowledge the ways we are unique and take a stance that is more understanding. We all have different strengths.

    Trying to understand how men and women communicate, without taking anything personally, can do a lot to help people in heterosexual relationships get along. And it just might be okay to talk about how men are different from us women. In a more equal, understanding and diverse world, we can appreciate differences empathically, not judgmentally. Talking about gender and sex differences might positively influence communication among men and women.
    http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/21...-men-and-women

    The intent of the topic is not for one gender to bash the other, but to acknowledge that we are different and a perceived strength may be a weakness in another field and vice versa, how a perceived female bias may actuly be an inbuilt protection mechanism required for the more localised upbringing of children and loyalty to family etc.
    I know my dad would take out the belt and mum would come and lie for us and even go mad at anyone who complained about us.

    Please heed the request to not turn it into a better than thou contest.

    Peace


    Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor
    M.A



    The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

    Frederick Douglas

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    IB Oldskool Array ardianto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    We cannot understand WOMEN, but we can understand A WOMAN if we try to understand her.

    Throw away the conceptions "women are like this, ... women are like that" because every woman is different. See every woman as a person.
    Last edited by ardianto; 05-12-2013 at 01:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Salam alaykum

    We should also stop to think that men in general is like this and that and remember that men too are persons - very different kind of individuals.

    Like women.


    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




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    Abz Iz Back!!! Array Abz2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    I mentioned general differences between genders due to the recent hysteria being hyped up, the topic is about psychological differences and roles.
    Even Allah (swt) mentions differences in the Quran so please let's not try to make it all wishy washy because that's the game shaytan plays in order to dull all edges and confuse us and get us at each others throats due to denial of inherent nature, that's one of the reasons why we're seeing so much fitnah.

    Arguing that there are female bodybuilders and effeminate men (the exception) won't help heal these wounds in a confused society which is reeling from buffeting, it will only increase contention.
    Sometimes acknowledging differences creates understanding and brings people together.
    Peace
    Last edited by Abz2000; 05-12-2013 at 07:26 PM.


    Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor
    M.A



    The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

    Frederick Douglas

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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Political correctness again?

    Funny how Conservative Americans and Conservative Muslims are pretty much indistinguishable from each other regarding the topic of "political correctness", despite being mortal enemies most of the time.

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    Abz Iz Back!!! Array Abz2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Actually we have a lot in common, in that many conservative Americans ARE conservative Muslims,
    And a large bulk of non-muslim conservative Americans hold to the belief that they are created by God.
    Although the term "conservative" is used, it can often be generalised with the term "fundamentalist", ie: we're omfortable with the original and not the cheap new trend.

    Apologies to all if I came across as snappy earlier, many Muslims have been killed here recently and the country is silently raging and all opposition parties have joined together to rally full support behind the islamic movement, the people are now supporting Islam in direct opposition to kufr government.
    all of a sudden the government and media are attempting to divert the issue to women's "rights" (not that they actually give a dam*) knowing that ridiculous debates about equal property rights etc will draw the Islamic parties into an argument that looks black and white on the surface (ie: Islam = anti women, we the Awami league care for women), the situation forces me to make these points to defend islam's stance on differences.

    Personally I don't care if nobody agrees, because Allah knows us best and He gave us the guidance.
    But I looked back at the post and felt it was a little harsh, apologies if I offended anyone.

    Look into the facts and you will see that adrenaline plays a huge part in psychological make-up, flight or fight, decision making, feeling in control etc,
    Ever wondered why babies cry when they're scared or hungry?
    Or why girls freeze and scream in the adventure park and the male holds them tight to reassure?
    Maybe it's a natural reflex and form of communication, a call.

    34 of chapter 4. النساء in the Holy Quran?

    الرِّجالُ قَوّٰمونَ عَلَى النِّساءِ بِما فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعضَهُم عَلىٰ بَعضٍ وَبِما أَنفَقوا مِن أَموٰلِهِم ۚ فَالصّٰلِحٰتُ قٰنِتٰتٌ حٰفِظٰتٌ لِلغَيبِ بِما حَفِظَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَالّٰتى تَخافونَ نُشوزَهُنَّ فَعِظوهُنَّ وَاهجُروهُنَّ فِى المَضاجِعِ وَاضرِبوهُنَّ ۖ فَإِن أَطَعنَكُم فَلا تَبغوا عَلَيهِنَّ سَبيلًا ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كانَ عَلِيًّا كَبيرًا

    English-YusufAli translation
    ______________________________

    Men are the protectors and maintainers of women,
    because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means.
    Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband\'s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

    the feminists would hate it, but considering that one is given more strength than the other, even the kuffar would laugh if Allah told women to discipline men.

    Google the term: monopoly on violence and you'll realize that governments also feel they have that kind of authority, coz they gave the guns.
    The comment is not to encourage people to beat their women, but to make them reflect and see that Allah never unfairly discriminates.
    Peace
    Last edited by Abz2000; 05-12-2013 at 08:04 PM.


    Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor
    M.A



    The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

    Frederick Douglas

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    IB Oldtimer Array truthseeker63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Each Man and Woman is a Individual.

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    Cuddly Creature Array Sir Fluffy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    There is an obvious level of equality in men and women equally but the major factor is the biological aspects which determine their physical differences. In this field men always conquer for obvious reasons.
    This has nothing to do with inferiority or superiority It is just simply based on the fact that men are the protectors of women as Abz has stated. Though it seems that in secular society they are the worries of women instead of their protectors, supporters and husbands. Western society has placed it fair that both unequal parties are equal. This is simply not true because no matter what, one party will be more prevalent than the other whether it is male or female and I have seen both but generally it is male. With the flux of marital issues and divorce one would think that the current progression in marital advancements would now open people's eyes to this matters. But ignorance is the greatest of all magics and the espouser of all trickery.

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    IB Oldtimer Array Independent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Fluffy View Post
    Western society has placed it fair that both unequal parties are equal.
    The western ideal is 'equality of opportunity' - which is not the same as saying that all parties are 'equal' ie 'the same as each other'. Plainly people are not equal in their abilities, gender based or otherwise.

    The western ideal is that the state should legislate to provide equal access and opportunity in all things over which the state has influence (education, employment law etc). At this point Islamic practices may come into conflict.

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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    The western ideal is 'equality of opportunity' - which is not the same as saying that all parties are 'equal' ie 'the same as each other'. Plainly people are not equal in their abilities, gender based or otherwise.

    The western ideal is that the state should legislate to provide equal access and opportunity in all things over which the state has influence (education, employment law etc). At this point Islamic practices may come into conflict.
    I am actually not referring to equal opportunity since I know what you are talking about already.
    I am stating the notion that all people are equal to each other. This is purely false as one person regardless of ethnicity, gender or religion is capable of trumping another person in regards to certain matters.
    The government itself is not logically capable of providing equal opportunities anyways since all chances we obtain are biased on the individual circumstances offering it.

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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Fluffy View Post
    The government itself is not logically capable of providing equal opportunities anyways since all chances we obtain are biased on the individual circumstances offering it.
    It can up to a point. The state can (and I believe should) legislate to ensure equal access to education, jobs etc from a legal point of view - what it can't do is make everyone equally able to take advantage of that access. (Unless it chooses to resort to positive discrimination.)

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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    It can up to a point. The state can (and I believe should) legislate to ensure equal access to education, jobs etc from a legal point of view - what it can't do is make everyone equally able to take advantage of that access. (Unless it chooses to resort to positive discrimination.)
    Well of course this has been tried and often is. But a government is no more better then those who run it. A Republican for example in the USA a few years ago expressed a desire to have all school funding privatized and paid for by the individual. They also expressed removal of more and more government backed opportunities Fractions of these things have been removed and this just stems from the obvious bias expressed by government parties.
    So in reality there is no pure opportunity with ongoing racial prejudice still present and unsurmounted greed.

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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    When a company chooses an employee, they usually choose the best fitted for the task,
    When a workman chooses a tool, they choose the most suited tool for that job.

    Men and women are obviously individuals unless they're Siamese twins.
    But each has different inherent qualities and I believe that men have been equipped with the tools to handle outdoor situations better and women have been equipped with the tools to handle indoors better.
    Women also inspire men to achieve more outside and vice versa.

    A few examples are, physical strength, hairy body which acts like a garment in the cold, high adrenaline and feeling of overall control even in out of control situations, risk taking and throwing caution to the wind etc, in contrast to the deeper emphasis on appearance and adornment, feelings of apprehension "sixth sense" in times of absent children's danger (I've seen them suddenly rush off only to find the kid's hurt themselves or is in a fix), bias in terms of children's opportunities (women often discriminate more than men in favour of their own children - for understandable reasons), the ability to bear children, and feed them milk, the need for someone to listen to their problems, paying attention to detail etc.

    Yes we are individuals, yet we are generally suited for different roles, and confusing over-mixing those roles can sometimes have detrimental societal consequences. The fact that homosexuality is becoming prevalent in the west may be in part due to the lack of understanding these differences and absent psychological buffer zone.

    Women usually want their man to be "manly", and vice versa. It's a law of attraction and has nothing to do with individualism. Attempting to dilute both roles only causes tensions and feelings of injustice.
    We need female teachers, doctors, police officers etc, but I don't believe we need to do so to the detriment of society, where we now see in the west, women often forfeiting bearing children and bringing up te next generation just to be able to compete and survive in the rat race, then comes the dreaded age of ivf and children with weaker immune systems, the depression etc. is it a consequence of the capitalist manifesto that we become objects rather than real people? Where adultery is no longer an issue, Where both genders just keep getting more and more frustrated and more and more anti-depressants are consumed? Do we not need to cast a glance at the foundations?


    Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor
    M.A



    The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

    Frederick Douglas

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    IB Senior Member Array Ahmad H's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    The Hadith of the Holy Prophet (saw) has come true about the Latter Days. That men would imitate women, and women would imitate men.

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    IB Oldtimer Array Independent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    Yes we are individuals, yet we are generally suited for different roles
    Yes - so on what grounds would any secular state intervene to prevent any individual or group of individuals from entering a particular profession? Why should women be prevented from taking any job, if they proved themselves good enough to get the offer in the first place? Why should the state decide instead of the employer, who surely knows his/her own business best?

    Physical jobs are in decline in the west (because of automation and the decline of heavy industry) so strength is less and less of an issue every year. It has turned out that women are at least as good as men in a whole range of jobs from which they were formerly discouraged or even barred. Why should the state make that judgement rather than the individual employer?

    As an individual, I want complete equality of access to every profession - but I don't look for favouritism. I don't expect that some groups (eg women) should be removed from the competition altogether, just to make life easier for me. I also don't expect that any group, whether men or women, should be given unfair advantage over me. If I look for equality for myself, I have to be prepared to give it back to everyone else.

    Whatever I achieve, I want to achieve by my own abilities, not because the opposition was artificially eliminated.
    Last edited by Independent; 05-13-2013 at 08:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Yes - so on what grounds would any secular state intervene to prevent any individual or group of individuals from entering a particular profession? Why should women be prevented from taking any job, if they proved themselves good enough to get the offer in the first place? Why should the state decide instead of the employer, who surely knows his/her own business best?
    ...........
    Why should the state make that judgement rather than the individual employer?
    No need to shoot yourself in the foot just to keep up the contention
    Ironic how they intervene to push employers into hiring a minimum number or even equal lol and even give them quotas.
    Also ironic how they create a perception of injustice in order to make women indignant and steer them into thinking that not working outside is somehow inferior.
    Ever heard of the term reverse psychology? Where you get your victim to demand that you take away their rights by giving them the illusion they are fighting you for theirs?

    I feel bad enough depriving my children of quality time because I'm having to earn the bread, the last thing we'd want is for them to lose the time of both parents.
    No wonder children these days are so Orwellian and see the state as having more authority than their parents.
    Soon they'll probably be betraying each other in order to keep big brother happy since they spend more time with state employees than their own parents.

    It's a mess, get it?


    فَأَقِم وَجهَكَ لِلدّينِ حَنيفًا ۚ فِطرَتَ اللَّهِ الَّتى فَطَرَ النّاسَ عَلَيها ۚ لا تَبديلَ لِخَلقِ اللَّهِ ۚ ذٰلِكَ الدّينُ القَيِّمُ وَلٰكِنَّ أَكثَرَ النّاسِ لا يَعلَمونَ

    English-YusufAli translation
    ______________________________

    So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (establish) Allah\'s handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not.

    Verse 30, chapter 30. الروم - Holy Quran

    Islam allows for women to work outside in modest and appropriate surroundings when necessary, but it emphasizes that they have a higher calling and responsibility as a mother - even to the extent of sacrificing communal prayers.

    Did you know that they are trying to force women into work in the uk by cutting benefits?

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/...british-women/
    Last edited by Abz2000; 05-13-2013 at 07:28 PM.


    Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor
    M.A



    The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

    Frederick Douglas

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    IB Senior Member Array Futuwwa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    No need to shoot yourself in the foot just to keep up the contention
    Ironic how they intervene to push employers into hiring a minimum number or even equal lol and even give them quotas.
    Can you actually argue against what he is actually advocating, rather than construct a straw man? I didn't see him advocating quotas anywhere.

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    IB Oldtimer Array Independent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    As Futuwaa says, I'm talking about equal opportunity, not positive discrimination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    No wonder children these days are so Orwellian and see the state as having more authority than their parents.
    Yet you want to give the state (or at least society) the power to prevent women from taking all kinds of jobs, even though they are entirely capable of doing them and have proved this long ago. It's you who's aguing for state intervention, not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    Islam allows for women to work outside in modest and appropriate surroundings when necessary, but it emphasizes that they have a higher calling and responsibility as a mother - even to the extent of sacrificing communal prayers.
    If you believe these rules come from God, then obviously you are obliged to follow them. But for a secular state to impose such rules makes no sense whatsoever (and I take it you live in the UK).

    So long as you don't demand equal treatment for yourself in other respects, then of course it's ok for you to oppose equal treatment for women.

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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    Yet you want to give the state (or at least society) the power to prevent women from taking all kinds of jobs, even though they are entirely capable of doing them and have proved this long ago. It's you who's aguing for state intervention, not me.
    I haven't been following this thread but couldn't help be amused by this statement. I hope you know that even in civilized west women are excluded from certain jobs:

    The military still excludes women from 238,000 positions.
    - Many barriers remain to women in the military, including traditional attitudes about women fighting and dying at war.

    http://news.discovery.com/human/psyc...ont-120213.htm

    haven't seen many women in roofing, cement work, road work or construction either but hey if western chicks love those then by all means go for it.
    Equality doesn't mean sameness.
    and generally I speak at least for Muslim women, we don't want to be treated equal to you, we want to be treated better!

    best,




    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.اتبع طرق الهدى ولا يضرك قلة السالكين
    وإياك وطرق الضلالة ولا تغتر بكثرة الهالكين





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    Default Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post

    haven't seen many women in roofing, cement work, road work or construction either but hey if western chicks love those then by all means go for it.
    Equality doesn't mean sameness.
    and generally I speak at least for Muslim women, we don't want to be treated equal to you, we want to be treated better!

    best,

    To correct you on that statement I have seen plenty of women in construction work. I should also mention that the woman I saw had biceps which winked at me . Very scary seeing a 6 and a half foot tall woman but they do exist.

    Women have equal opportunities in America mostly except for government jobs. The issue is not a matter of them being permitted to work it is a matter of them getting hired. Certain fields women have better odds then men but mostly men have better chances then women. Take for example my friend who is an electrician His company tends not to hire women out of fear they cannot perform manual tasks as equivalent to men. Companies will always be biased regardless of it being illegal.

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