I'll use USA as an example because there is plenty of demographic info available.

Around 90% of Americans are religious.
92% of American scientists are atheist or agnostic.

This says a couple of things to me...

If the Quran contained genuine scientific 'miracles' then scientists all over the world would invariably be muslims and not overwhelmingly atheist/agnostic as they are.

If the testimony of scientists on religious matters is valid then you've just shot yourself in the foot because most of them disagree with you.

your above study isn't an accurate assessment of the religious devotions of scientists, I have posted plenty of opposite studies on this very forum and this very section (health and science).. use the search engine third from your anatomical right..

You need to know first and fore most how to conduct a legitimate study, how to free it from confounders, how to randomize it, set important variables and get a large enough population so that it is legitimate.

if I post this study
which was conducted by the university of chicago medical center
http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/2007...hiatrists.html

You'd formulate the idea that psychiatrists are mostly atheists, fact is I can already spot a couple of confounder with this study right off the bat.. they have excluded the other 39% of physicians who didn't fall into the Judeo-Christian category and who in fact might be devoutly religious-- the other is 1,820 isn't a statistically significant number...
That is using numbers to mislead people!

other than that, I find it sort of ridiculous to believe or not believe based on an appeal to authority..

It is neither careful nor judicious.. it is actually rather sad!
and that goes from both ends!

cheers

Nope, people are people. They can ignore stuff if they want to. You make out scientists to be somehow above normal people in your post. Scientists are just regular people, they can be ignorant too.

So what does your article tell me? That you havent looked into it much at all.

ZOMG 92% Atheist OMG OMG SCIENCE RULES OUT RELIGION

Foolish if you ask me, here take a look a this.

http://www.physorg.com/news102700045.html

This tells me a bunch of interesting thing, such as:

Ecklund says, "It appears that those from non-religious backgrounds disproportionately self-select into scientific professions. This may reflect the fact that there is tension between the religious tenets of some groups and the theories and methods of particular sciences and it contributes to the large number of non-religious scientists."


Let me get this straight, according to your logic, we could say this:

African-Americans comprise approximately 79% of NBA rosters, 65% of NFL line ups, and 18% of MLB teams

ZOMB being BLACK RULES OUT PLAYING BASEBALL!!! L@@K SO FEW BLACK PEOPLE PLAY BASEBALL!!!! THEREFORE THEY ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE!!!!

Do they all include medical practitioners and not scientists?

Are you going to criticise the methodology of the study I actually posted or just one you picked yourself?

They're not the only ones it seems, if you came up with 39% excluded then one of us must be reading those numbers incorrectly.

Well at least we agree on something.


They can but people who research the workings of the world are probably in a better position to testify about it.
It seems you haven't really understood my point. I'm not saying that science excludes religion, since by most accounts science cannot explain something which is not of the natural world.
What science can do is support or refute religious scripture relating to matters of the natural world, and the original poster seems to be appealing to the authority of scientists in order to do this.
My point is that most scientists do not endorse these views, which kind of renders the 'appeal to authority' factor a bit pointless, why select only the opinions of respected scientists who happen to believe in a miraculous Quran and ignore the majority who do not.

Err.. To lend weight to scripture?

Unlike other scientists medical doctors deal with disease, death, pain, pretty depressing stuff, so it makes sense that they're more religious than the rest. Psychiatrists don't deal with death and physical suffering all that much, so this could account for the slightly higher percentage of atheists in their ranks.

I missed the time when we could all sit and marvel at the awesomeness of a thread title. You know, sort of ponder on it and the content of the first post for hours and sometimes even days.

Nowdays, everyone wants a freakin debate about it. And I'm not just talking about LI, mind you.

Oh well.

Are medical practioners not scientists to you? If you have an MD or a PhD next to your name you are still considered a doctor?.. further though PhD holders make up 1% of the population doctors are even less than that!

The study you posted doesn't mention all the values that come on top that tell you of the pool of subjects, where from, conducted by whom, for what purpose, etc .. there is really nothing to criticize.. I'd find it ludicrous to take the time to address something that isn't even on the map!

?

What a great day this is...

You haven't conducted a study on a pool of scientests to see whether or not they agree with above findings.. my feeling is, most people keep their spirituality/religion and personal interest private.. until you actually select a group of randomized scientests from all backgrounds and all religious or non-religious affiliations giving them the above finds to see if they are in agreement with its content can you speak with the authority of numbers on what they believe or don't believe.. People in the same scientific institutions and of very like mind and similar education don't agree of things that you think you have mastered with such deftness, how can you sit and speak for 90% of them and with such bravado? This is simply not applicable!


cheers

Maybe I don't know..My feeling is people don't choose a career because it supports their after life views, rather because they enjoy it?

a very small percentage of the population can afford that level of a higher education.. it isn't simply very time consuming but also financially draining...

I personally haven't conducted a study on who believes in what.. my personal experience is with my colleagues and preceptors who have been very religious people.. the only atheists I encountered were two philosophy and one English professor... the philosophy folks just enjoyed going into endless mazes.. it bewilders me how they can prove their own existence with some of their theories.. be that as it may..

Scientests come in all shapes colors and sizes, they are hindu, they are Muslim, they are Jews, they are Jainist, they are atheists, some of them religious, some of them not, no different than the rest of the population... They are not demi Gods.. they are people who studied a bit more.. it has no bearing on ones ability to reason.. just perhaps think in more abstract terms without needing to cite their convictions from wikipedia all the time..

peace

It's not a matter of my personal opinion, doctors of medicine are not trained to be scientists, they're trained to practice medicine. Obviously there's a spectrum and there are multidisciplinary skills involved but doctors are not trained to be fully fledged researchers.I'll admit I'm relying on Nature's good reputation in this matter.
I wasn't sure where the 39% came from in your post. As it stands physicians don't need any doctored statistics (sorry) about religion, 3/4 isn't a bad turn out.

It is not my own personal claim of these figures, it is the work of people more competent in organising a survey and has been published in one of the world's foremost scientific journals.
I'm sure if you have some desire to prove that this work is flawed then you could write to the author at the address provided and question his methods yourself.

Firstly, this is a crap thread only trying to convert the converted.

Secondly, on the debate of scientists and belief in God. The truth of the matter with two large scale surveys within the US (One dated 1916 & 1997) found 40% of American Scientists said they believe in God.

Reality does not bend to the phsycology of belief, millions of people believe in Ghosts, ESP, Astrology and angels along with a whole host of paranormal phenomana, that does not make them real.

If you think a few comments from bought scientific opinions from the 70s counts as a serious thread. some infidels here are seriously deluded.......

like i said, sigh... and 8-l

I don't know, where in the world doctors aren't trained to be scientists perhaps 13th century waikiki?.. that is what they are by defintion most if not all doctors have papers published that means 'research'!... here in the united states, you need an undergraduate in one or more of the sciences in order to be accepted into medical school... mine is a BS/MS in molecular biology... I am sorry, that, docs don't conform to your idea of what a 'scientist' is, but, that is more your problem than theirs.

that is 84% and 83% of 61%-- those who have responded of an already statistically negligible pool!

I have no need to do that.. I personally didn't see this piece of work in any foremost scientific journal 'Nature' magazine doesn't constitute a scientific journal! besides that, this doesn't affect me in any which way, least of which the inflated number you rounded up to make a case for yourself...

I have stated in practically every post relating to this matter, that an appeal to authority is an incorrect way to reason through ones existence

cheers

Greetings,
Don't you think that moving from uncritica