Originally Posted by ranma1/2

I am not denying that with flies we can make antibiotics.
I am saying that you are reading much more into the passage than is actuallly there.

It does not say that you can culture the bacteria and other things on flies and make an antidote. It says just dip the flies in the food and bamb any disease or venom it lay there is now cured.

you are reading into it to much i thinks....

Originally Posted by Philosopher

You have failed to provide a concrete objection.

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

Yes I have.
I have shown that you have read things into the passages that are not there.

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

I am not denying that with flies we can make antibiotics.
I am saying that you are reading much more into the passage than is actuallly there.

It does not say that you can culture the bacteria and other things on flies and make an antidote. It says just dip the flies in the food and bamb any disease or venom it lay there is now cured.

you are reading into it to much i thinks....

Originally Posted by NoName55

Are you some kinda dumb schmuck or is it a hobby to twist statements and put words into people's speech?

There will be no discussion until you read the thread again then post a question minus the lies

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

please be polite. I am not twisting statements, rather i am pointing out the twisting of statements.

Now please be civil. I have not been rude to you and i expect the same.

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

Prophet Mohummed says "If a fly falls into one of your containers [of food or drink], immerse it completely (falyaghmis-hu kullahu) before removing it, for under one of its wings there is venom and under another there is its antidote. "


now how am i reading or twisting these words?

The prophet is said to have said that if a fly falls into a food or drink you should immerse it completely.

and he then says that under onewing is venom and one the antidote.

Is this true? No it is not.
Scientific prediction? No.

If you care to explain how I am twisting the words please do. But I am not lying as you have accused me of doing. I am just pointing out the flaws in your arguments and logic.

Originally Posted by ranma1/2

Prophet Mohummed says "If a fly falls into one of your containers [of food or drink], immerse it completely (falyaghmis-hu kullahu) before removing it, for under one of its wings there is venom and under another there is its antidote. "


now how am i reading or twisting these words?

The prophet is said to have said that if a fly falls into a food or drink you should immerse it completely.

and he then says that under onewing is venom and one the antidote.

Is this true? No it is not.
Scientific prediction? No.

If you care to explain how I am twisting the words please do. But I am not lying as you have accused me of doing. I am just pointing out the flaws in your arguments and logic.

Originally Posted by lyesh

Recently experiments have been done under supervision which indicate that a fly carries the disease (pathagens) plus the antidote for those organ-isms. Ordinarily when a fly touches a liquid food it infects the liquid with its pathogens, so it must be dipped in order to release also the antidote for those pathogens to act as a counter balance to the pathogens.

its been proven true by science now... that's what this whole thread is about..

Originally Posted by Philosopher

You havent pointed anything noteworthy. You are indeed twisting the facts stated and have posted nothing but intellectually unethical and deceptive waffles.

Originally Posted by lyesh

Ordinarily when a fly touches a liquid food it infects the liquid with its pathogens, so it must be dipped in order to release also the antidote for those pathogens to act as a counter balance to the pathogens.

its been proven true by science now...

Originally Posted by Trumble

Without twisting anything he has merely pointed out that, as is the usual with such 'miracles', far more is being read into a passage than is actually there. Not to mention that what doesn't happen to fit it is totally ignored. Were this advice



followed literally, the consequence would be increased typhoid and cholera; more disease not less of it. The interesting new research doesn't change that.



No, it has not. Please re-read the articles, if only for the sake of your kids. Nobody, anywhere, is saying anything today about dipping flies. The antibiotics are extracted from flies using scientific processes; there is no benefit from just dunking the fly which is just as much a health hazard as it has always been.

Or in other words, while using scientific techniques to extract antibiotics from flies may be smart, dunking them in your food or drink is not. The saying is therefore likely to be either a metaphor, or an old-wives tale from the Prophet's time, not a "miracle".

The fly is now trumpeted but nobody mentions the numerous "medical" references in hadith that are absurd, such as claiming no disease is contagious, that drinking camel urine for medicinal purposes is a good idea or that black cumin seeds can cure anything. It is that selectivity which is "intellectually unethical and deceptive"... or at least it would be if it were a purely scientific matter. It isn't, of course, it's a faith-based matter with a dollop of science that with insufficient care can be confused with the real thing. Seeking agreement is therefore pretty futile, those who 'believe' will see this as a 'proof' just like those equally tenuous 'proofs' related to embryos, the shape of the earth etc, etc, while anybody else will see it as an interesting coincidence at most.

Originally Posted by Trumble

such as claiming no disease is contagious,