Explanation on Some verses

Abdullah · 04:54 AM

Can someone give me a tafsir on this hadith

Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 709:
Narrated Abu Bakra:

During the days (of the battle) of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a word I had heard from Allah's Apostle after I had been about to join the Companions of Al-Jamal (i.e. the camel) and fight along with them. When Allah's Apostle was informed that the Persians had crowned the daughter of Khosrau as their ruler, he said, "Such people as ruled by a lady will never be successful."

Does this show women will never be good leaders?

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: Explanation on Some verses -** 03-19-2005

Then if you have any other verses you'd like explained please post them, otherwise we can close this discussion.

yoshiyahu · **Re: Explanation on Some verses -** 03-20-2005

Why should the thread be closed? Wasn't his question legitimate?

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: Explanation on Some verses -** 03-20-2005

No, he first posted some verses then said never mind. I never saw his new question.

Quote:

Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 709:
Narrated Abu Bakra:

During the days (of the battle) of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a word I had heard from Allah's Apostle after I had been about to join the Companions of Al-Jamal (i.e. the camel) and fight along with them. When Allah's Apostle was informed that the Persians had crowned the daughter of Khosrau as their ruler, he said, "Such people as ruled by a lady will never be successful."

Does this show women will never be good leaders?

Very good question. First of all some points:

1. The only source that muslims use to say that women cannot be leaders is this one saying ot the Prophet Muhammad saws about the Queen of Persia.

2. This saying is not enough evidence, and it was not necessarily understood by the companions to mean that women cannot be leaders. Many companions understood it to refer specifically to the persian empire, and that they would not be sucessful

3. The strongest evidence that women can be leaders is that Zubair and Talha, two companions promised paradise, allowed Aisha rd to be their leader, and not just any leader but a MILITARY LEADER

4. This was seen by all companions as a position of leadership, which is demonstrated by this companion(abu Bakra, not to be confused with the 1st caliph Abu Bakr) remembering this hadith at the battle of the camel

5. To say that talha nad Zubair were uninformed on this subject is ridiculous, because they were amongst the ten promised paradise, and they were the foremost of companions in terms of knowledge

So in conclusion, it was not agreed upon by the salaf, and it is not agreed upon today. It is an issue open for discussion. many scholars feel that women can occupy certain positions of leadership in society.

Abdullah · **Re: Explanation on Some verses -** 03-20-2005

Quote:

Ah yes, Aisha did lead a military campaign...

But was she successful?

Her military campaign was against Ali who would become the fourth caliph!

And after this campaign she was confined to her house for the rest of her life.

Aisha's example only proves the point that was made in the above quoted Hadith.

I know that the Hadith does not forbid women to rule, but it does suggest that women have a short-coming when it comes to rulership doesn't it ?

I do agree with your point that this solitary Hadith isn't enough eveidence though.

This was the response i got, did she fail and why was she going against ali?

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: Explanation on Some verses -** 03-20-2005

She did not fail, they decided to end the conflict. The conflict was also initiated by accident. She decided that it was not a wise decision, but that does not mean that she failed. Also, she was a leader in many other fields and was successful. She was a scholar of Ahadith and has narrated to us thousands of ahadith. Wouldn't you say that is success?

You can read about the conflict here:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/sahabah/khalifa_ali.htm

When i find a better article I'll give it to you.

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: Explanation on Some verses -** 03-21-2005

The supreme ruler of the muslims i.e. khalifa will always be a male, and there is no dispute on that. Just like the Imaam of the prayers must always be a male.

Besides, western countries don't have women rulers themselves.

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	(#1 (permalink))
Abdullah Limited Member Status: Offline Posts: 36 Reputation: 25 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Mar 2005 Gender:	Explanation on Some verses - 03-18-2005 Can someone give me a tafsir on this hadith Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 709: Narrated Abu Bakra: During the days (of the battle) of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a word I had heard from Allah's Apostle after I had been about to join the Companions of Al-Jamal (i.e. the camel) and fight along with them. When Allah's Apostle was informed that the Persians had crowned the daughter of Khosrau as their ruler, he said, "Such people as ruled by a lady will never be successful." Does this show women will never be good leaders? Last edited by Abdullah; 03-19-2005 at 04:54 AM..

	(#2 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Explanation on Some verses - 03-19-2005 Then if you have any other verses you'd like explained please post them, otherwise we can close this discussion. __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

	(#3 (permalink))
yoshiyahu LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 338 Reputation: 126 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Mar 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Agnostic	Re: Explanation on Some verses - 03-20-2005 Why should the thread be closed? Wasn't his question legitimate? __________________ سلام - שלום

	(#6 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Explanation on Some verses - 03-20-2005 She did not fail, they decided to end the conflict. The conflict was also initiated by accident. She decided that it was not a wise decision, but that does not mean that she failed. Also, she was a leader in many other fields and was successful. She was a scholar of Ahadith and has narrated to us thousands of ahadith. Wouldn't you say that is success? You can read about the conflict here: http://www.allaahuakbar.net/sahabah/khalifa_ali.htm When i find a better article I'll give it to you. __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

	(#7 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Explanation on Some verses - 03-21-2005 The supreme ruler of the muslims i.e. khalifa will always be a male, and there is no dispute on that. Just like the Imaam of the prayers must always be a male. Besides, western countries don't have women rulers themselves. __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.