Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

  1. #1
    Full Member Array whitemuslimah's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    64
    Threads
    22
    Reputation
    235
    Rep Power
    50

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    if father is a muslim, but has a non islamic surname (given by non muslim mum) does he have to give to his daughter his non islamic surname or any other muslim surname? please, quote some authentic sourses if possible.


    The more you give, the more you get.
    The more you laugh, the less you fret.
    The more you do unselfishly,
    The more you live abundantly.
    The more of everything you share,
    The more you'll always have to spare.

  2. #2
    Full Member Array Civilsed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dunia - But just passing through
    Posts
    290
    Threads
    111
    Reputation
    1115
    Rep Power
    35

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitemuslimah View Post
    if father is a muslim, but has a non islamic surname (given by non muslim mum) does he have to give to his daughter his non islamic surname or any other muslim surname? please, quote some authentic sourses if possible.


    You should always keep the family name, examples Yusuf Chambers, Abdul rahim Green etc... This is the Sunnah

  3. #3
    Array The Ruler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cadavers.
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,136
    Threads
    91
    Reputation
    38677
    Rep Power
    83

    Likes:
    Received
    5
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Civilsed View Post


    You should always keep the family name, examples Yusuf Chambers, Abdul rahim Green etc... This is the Sunnah
    Hmm? The people during the Prophet's (saw) time didn't keep any 'family names'. It was usually ____ bin ____ or ____ bint ______.

    So (the name of the child) bin/bint (the first name of the father). Isn't that how it was?




  4. #4
    Full Member Array Civilsed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dunia - But just passing through
    Posts
    290
    Threads
    111
    Reputation
    1115
    Rep Power
    35

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ruler View Post
    Hmm? The people during the Prophet's (saw) time didn't keep any 'family names'. It was usually ____ bin ____ or ____ bint ______.

    So (the name of the child) bin/bint (the first name of the father). Isn't that how it was?


    This is not just the prophet (PBUH) time, this is still practiced today as i do. The western system however is different and you follow you father by his surname, unlike us who are like fulan bin/bint fulan.

    It is reported in a Hadith that the Prophet -peace be upon him- said, "You will be called on the Day of Resurrection by your names and the names of your fathers, so have good names." (Sunan Abu Da'ud, Hadith 4297)

    During the time of the Prophet -peace be upon him- when people used to accept Islam, he would not require all people to change their names. He used to change only those names that carried wrong meanings or un-Islamic ideas and concepts. The Prophet's wife 'A'ishah -may Allah be pleased with her- said about the Prophet, "He used to change bad names." (Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Hadith no. 2765)
    'Umar had a daughter whose name was 'Asiyah (meaning Tough or Hard). The Prophet changed her name to Jamilah (the Beautiful, see Sunan Abu Da'ud, Hadith no. 4301)
    Abu Da'ud has mentioned many names of people and places that the Prophet -peace be upon him- changed because they had bad meanings. (see Hadith no. 4305)
    Imam Bukhari mentioned that Sa'id bin al-Musayyib said that his grandfather came to the Prophet -peace be upon him. The Prophet asked him his name. He said, "Hazn" (meaning Hard). The Prophet said, "You are Sahl." (meaning Soft, Easy). The man said, "I do not want to change the name that my father gave me." His grandson Sa'id used to regret and say afterwards that we still experience the hardness in our family. (see al-Bukhari, Hadith no. 5722).

    One can only change one's own name. One cannot change the family name or name of one's parents, unless they are alive and accept the change. So the new Muslims should change their first names, if they contain wrong or bad meanings. As far as their last names are concerned they should not change last names, because it is also forbidden in Islam to take the name of someone other than one's own biological father. Allah says in the Qur'an, "Proclaim their real parentage. That will be more equitable in the sight of Allah. And if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brothers in the faith…" (Al-Ahzab 33:5)

    Allah know best

  5. #5
    Array The Ruler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cadavers.
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,136
    Threads
    91
    Reputation
    38677
    Rep Power
    83

    Likes:
    Received
    5
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    ^I understand. Somewhat. But I don't think any of the above was referring to surnames specifically. The hadiths you provided seems to mention first names and not the surnames. Hmm?

    As far as their last names are concerned they should not change last names, because it is also forbidden in Islam to take the name of someone other than one's own biological father. Allah says in the Qur'an, "Proclaim their real parentage. That will be more equitable in the sight of Allah. And if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brothers in the faith…" (Al-Ahzab 33:5)
    Proclaiming parentage isn't necessarily done by keeping the same surname as one's father, right?

    I'm asking questions, not to contradict you, but to understand and know. If it just so happens that one really needs to keep their father's surname( and that it's forbidden to change it), I'll be in trouble. And I'm not too keen to change my surname either. Tch.




  6. #6
    Full Member Array Civilsed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dunia - But just passing through
    Posts
    290
    Threads
    111
    Reputation
    1115
    Rep Power
    35

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ruler View Post
    ^I understand. Somewhat. But I don't think any of the above was referring to surnames specifically. The hadiths you provided seems to mention first names and not the surnames. Hmm?
    Proclaiming parentage isn't necessarily done by keeping the same surname as one's father, right?
    I'm asking questions, not to contradict you, but to understand and know. If it just so happens that one really needs to keep their father's surname( and that it's forbidden to change it), I'll be in trouble. And I'm not too keen to change my surname either. Tch.

    I know where you are coming from, but its the same system as marriage i.e. a woman keep her surname and does not take her husband surname. like in the west.

    http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198574
    http://www.muslimtents.com/aminahswo...ands_wife.html

    Proclaiming parentage - how else would you achieve this? i suppose if your fathers name was Steve the (yusuf steve) is acceptable but As in the west the surname is taken to show the family/father then this would be the only way of keeping the parentage.

    Allah know best

  7. #7
    Array The Ruler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cadavers.
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,136
    Threads
    91
    Reputation
    38677
    Rep Power
    83

    Likes:
    Received
    5
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    ^Nope, there are birth certificates; I think it even says in my passport (unsure).

    But, we can't deem having a different surname to your father as forbidden though, neh? Especially in a case where the different surname was given by the father himself.




  8. #8
    Full Member Array Civilsed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dunia - But just passing through
    Posts
    290
    Threads
    111
    Reputation
    1115
    Rep Power
    35

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ruler View Post
    ^Nope, there are birth certificates; I think it even says in my passport (unsure).

    But, we can't deem having a different surname to your father as forbidden though, neh? Especially in a case where the different surname was given by the father himself.



    This is the general rule, however i cannot / will not / unable to pass any fatwa. Your case i would say is different if not sure contact your local Masjid they may be able to advise. This is just to be on the safe side. Please note it is an important issue.

    But like i say i dont know you situation therefore unable to comment.

  9. #9
    Full Member Array whitemuslimah's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    64
    Threads
    22
    Reputation
    235
    Rep Power
    50

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    is anyone of the view that islamic identity is important and should not be distorted, and the society must be able to clearly make out whether someone is a muslim by just hearing their name? i also thought a child will get more blessings from Allah if they have islamic name (when i say name i mean full name - forename - middle name if present - surname).


    The more you give, the more you get.
    The more you laugh, the less you fret.
    The more you do unselfishly,
    The more you live abundantly.
    The more of everything you share,
    The more you'll always have to spare.

  10. #10
    El Habanero picante Array Woodrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Marion, North Dakota
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    17,017
    Threads
    246
    Reputation
    160455
    Rep Power
    147

    Likes:
    Received
    500
    Given
    127

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Surnames are a fairly recent development. As populations grow and areas became congested surnames came about as a further means of identifying families and individuals. At a time when there might only be one Ahmad in a village, Ahmad was sufficient.

    Now the question that needs to be answered is in reference to changing sur names. the Ahadith mentioned above seem to point out that we must keep our connection with our family lines. In todays world the surname seems to be the only means of doing so.





  11. #11
    save $ 4 hajj Array syilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    malaysia
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    6,190
    Threads
    334
    Reputation
    37757
    Rep Power
    75

    Likes:
    Received
    93
    Given
    236

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ruler View Post
    Hmm? The people during the Prophet's (saw) time didn't keep any 'family names'. It was usually ____ bin ____ or ____ bint ______.

    So (the name of the child) bin/bint (the first name of the father). Isn't that how it was?
    In Malaysia...the malays doesn't have any surname.

    everyone in my family there is bin or binti.




    25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

  12. #12
    IB Oldskool Array north_malaysian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Penang Island, Malaysia
    Posts
    8,196
    Threads
    219
    Reputation
    23969
    Rep Power
    71

    Likes:
    Received
    4
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by syilla View Post
    In Malaysia...the malays doesn't have any surname.

    everyone in my family there is bin or binti.
    Some Malaysian Arabs still have their surname ie. Albar, Alattas, Badjenid etc, if I want to have a surname I'll be having the word "Feringghi" as both of my parents are from Batu Feringghi...


    Assalamualaykum... I am back!!

  13. #13
    IB Oldskool Array ardianto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Indonesia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    5,864
    Threads
    80
    Reputation
    33000
    Rep Power
    55

    Likes:
    Received
    2106
    Given
    1049

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    If a father has non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name ?

    Why not ?. I think Abdul Malik Brown or Hasan Yunus Taylor (for European) or Abdullah Syaiful Chen (for Chinese Muslim) are good names.

    And about me ?. I am Indonesian and majority of ethnics in Indonesia doesn't have family name. Except few ethnic such as Batak and Maluku.
    I'm from Java Island, and Javanese doesn't have family name, doesn't have Middle name or even have only fore name. Do you remember former president of Indonesia, Soekarno and Soeharto ? Their names just Soekarno and Soeharto.
    I have two sons, and I gave them fore name, middle name and last name. Their last name are Adnan. That is my father fore name. And as muslims their fore name are Muhammad.

  14. #14
    Extremophile Array Malaikah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Swimming with thermus aquaticus in Yellowstone National Park
    Posts
    6,275
    Threads
    141
    Reputation
    27867
    Rep Power
    74

    Likes:
    Received
    4
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    What do you mean by non-Islamic? Like a surname that was Christian or Christopher?



  15. #15
    Full Member Array Silver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    406
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    2093
    Rep Power
    52

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    So a revert can change his first name but not his last name?
    There is a christian family name common here In Lebanon: Abdul Massih (Slave of Jesus). Suppose someone with that last name reverts to islam, shouldn't he change his last name?

  16. #16
    Full Member Array Civilsed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dunia - But just passing through
    Posts
    290
    Threads
    111
    Reputation
    1115
    Rep Power
    35

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lara View Post
    So a revert can change his first name but not his last name?
    There is a christian family name common here In Lebanon: Abdul Massih (Slave of Jesus). Suppose someone with that last name reverts to islam, shouldn't he change his last name?

    Yes as this name is Haraam then the surname would need to be changed in this case i would say taking the fathers and not surname. Allah know best

  17. #17
    o p t i m i s t i c Array Gia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine
    Posts
    171
    Threads
    1
    Reputation
    677
    Rep Power
    35

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    I believe that a name, any name, doesn't have to be changed as long as its meaning doesn't conflict with Islam whether it's a first, a middle or a last name.



  18. #18
    Full Member Array Civilsed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Dunia - But just passing through
    Posts
    290
    Threads
    111
    Reputation
    1115
    Rep Power
    35

    Likes:
    Received
    0
    Given
    0

    Default Re: Father is a muslim with non-islamic last name, can a child take on his name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia View Post
    I believe that a name, any name, doesn't have to be changed as long as its meaning doesn't conflict with Islam whether it's a first, a middle or a last name.


    Quite right as long as the meaning of the name is not Haraam.

+ Register now to reply

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
BACK TO TOP