As-salaamu aleikum brothers and sisters,

I have philosophy classes in which I usually get asked about Islam and rulings, beliefs etc., since I'm the only one in the whole school who uses hijab.

We studied philoshophy theories; 1)determinism and 2)indeterminism

1. According to Determinism a person has no free will, meaning everything happens in life inevitably. This believes in fate.

2. Indeterminism mean that there are things that one has free will in, except in thigs such as birthday.

Now I was asked if we believe that Allah has already determined everything ,He is All-knowing Allwise?

I said that yes we do believe in fate, it is one of the things that we have to believe in including angels, day of Resurruction etc. But fate is determined by our free will.

What do you think? What would've you answered?

Originally Posted by _muslim_

As-salaamu aleikum brothers and sisters,

I have philosophy classes in which I usually get asked about Islam and rulings, beliefs etc., since I'm the only one in the whole school who uses hijab.

We studied philoshophy theories; 1)determinism and 2)indeterminism

1. According to Determinism a person has no free will, meaning everything happens in life inevitably. This believes in fate.

2. Indeterminism mean that there are things that one has free will in, except in thigs such as birthday.

Now I was asked if we believe that Allah has already determined everything ,He is All-knowing Allwise?

I said that yes we do believe in fate, it is one of the things that we have to believe in including angels, day of Resurruction etc. But fate is determined by our free will.

What do you think? What would've you answered?

I will be the first to advise you to stay away from philosophy and astrology. We do not have in-depth knowledge, and this will only corrupt our minds. We believe in Allah through His creations. End of story.

I also studied determinism/indeterminism/free will. If you'd like my essays on it from the college class, please PM me.

By the way, I think you got your definitions mixed up.

Determinism is, "Everything that happens is caused to happen. (Clifford Williams. “Free Will and Determinism”) An event is the cause or effect of another, and the chain of life continues thus. It’s much similar to the animal food chain, and how it circles around and around. Definitely, all people have free will and the ability to decide. The worldly dimension where we humans are known to live in is a planet of cause and effect, where everything we decide to do plays a role to what will happen in the future. Often, free will is confused with abilities and laws. In religious terms, those who believe in monotheism hold that each human is on his own accord and are fully responsible for his actions.

Indeterminism are actions performed based on complete randomness. We do not have any reason to understand why we performed what we did. As humans, we know the consequences and we know what we do has a result.

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Now, to conclude... In Islam, we believe Allah Ta'ala knows everything. Yet we live this life according to our own actions. Don't ask why. This is the circle of life. Or actually, pose this question to your local scholar. I'm sure he can give a better answer.

related links :

Between Destiny, Working and Free Will

You can also read:

Fate or Free Will, Nature or Nurture
Divine Predestination & Man's Free Will
Are Marriages Made in Heaven?

Allah Almighty knows best.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503543728

Same question was asked by a Jew from Ali KaramAllah Wajhu, he replied the questioner, can you lift your one leg, he said, yes and did the same. He further requested him to do the same with his other leg, he refused and said he could not.

Ali answered that is how we are determined have free will and rest is indertermined.

It is a very wise explaination of the subject, I beleive.

I like to think in matters of greyness as opposed to black and white on these types of issues. Let's say it's raining and you need to go out. There are several possible options: you go out now and you get wet; you take an umbrella with you and don't get wet; you stay inside and wait until it stops raining (but then you might be late).

Therefore, you have free-will to decide on how to deal with events that are determined by things out of your control i.e. fate (in this example, was illustrated by the weather). Both can and DO coexist.

Originally Posted by rafeeq

Same question was asked by a Jew from Ali KaramAllah Wajhu, he replied the questioner, can you lift your one leg, he said, yes and did the same. He further requested him to do the same with his other leg, he refused and said he could not.

Ali answered that is how we are determined have free will and rest is indertermined.

It is a very wise explaination of the subject, I beleive.

Very good story masha'Allah! Never heard that one before!

Just on the note, "undetermine" and "indetermine" are two different things.

Originally Posted by rafeeq

Same question was asked by a Jew from Ali KaramAllah Wajhu,

Never heard of this story . Do u have the details ?

very interesting thread


Rashad, jazakAllah khair for your input

As-salaamu aleikum brothers and sisters,

I have philosophy classes in which I usually get asked about Islam and rulings, beliefs etc., since I'm the only one in the whole school who uses hijab.

We studied philoshophy theories; 1)determinism and 2)indeterminism

1. According to Determinism a person has no free will, meaning everything happens in life inevitably. This believes in fate.

2. Indeterminism mean that there are things that one has free will in, except in thigs such as birthday.

Now I was asked if we believe that Allah has already determined everything ,He is All-knowing Allwise?

I said that yes we do believe in fate, it is one of the things that we have to believe in including angels, day of Resurruction etc. But fate is determined by our free will.

What do you think? What would've you answered?

thanks for your perfect question.
do not forget that Islam is religion of Think.
the allah ta`ala is the creator of wisdom and we should think and ask and then choose the right way. if a person do not be like this he never can`t find the islam

وَالَّذِينَ اجْتَنَبُوا الطَّاغُوتَ أَن يَعْبُدُوهَا وَأَنَابُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ لَهُمُ الْبُشْرَى فَبَشِّرْ عِبَادِ ﴿۱۷﴾
QARIB: those who shun the worship of idols and turn in repentance to allah for them glad tidings. therefore give good tidings to my worshipers,
SHAKIR: and (as for) those who keep off from the worship of the idols and turn to allah, they shall have good news, therefore give good news to my servants,
PICKTHAL: and those who put away false gods lest they should worship them and turn to allah in repentance, for them there are glad tidings. therefor give good tidings (o muhammad) to my bondmen
YUSUFALI: those who eschew evil,- and fall not into its worship,- and turn to allah (in repentance),- for them is good news: so announce the good news to my servants,-

الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ أُوْلَئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَاهُمُ اللَّهُ وَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمْ أُوْلُوا الْأَلْبَابِ ﴿۱۸﴾
QARIB: who listen to the words and follow what is finest of it. these are they whom allah has guided. they are those of understanding.
SHAKIR: those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding
PICKTHAL: who hear advice and follow the best thereof. such are those whom allah guideth, and such are men of understanding.
YUSUFALI: those who listen to the word, and follow the best (meaning) in it: those are the ones whom allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.



but about your question
if you look towards the holy quran may you will confused!!
but when you refer to the sonnah your question will solve
you can read :
Man and His Destiny
An Improper Interpretation of Fate and Destiny

in fact in the world there is no determinism and also indeterminism !!
but there is somethings between them.
if it was determinism hell and paradise would have no mean! and it was INJUSTICE! sobhanahu va ta`ala
and otherwise it can`t be indeterminism!
because as you know anything is under the god power and nothing happen except god want it.

وَعِندَهُ مَفَاتِحُ الْغَيْبِ لاَ يَعْلَمُهَا إِلاَّ هُوَ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ وَمَا تَسْقُطُ مِن وَرَقَةٍ إِلاَّ يَعْلَمُهَا وَلاَ حَبَّةٍ فِي ظُلُمَاتِ الأَرْضِ وَلاَ رَطْبٍ وَلاَ يَابِسٍ إِلاَّ فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ ﴿۵۹﴾
QARIB: with him are the keys of the unseen, none knows them but he. he knows that which is in the land and sea. no leaf falls except he knows it, and there is no grain in the darkness of the earth, fresh or withered, but is recorded in a clear book.
SHAKIR: and with him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but he; and he knows what is in the land and the sea, and there falls not a leaf but he knows it, nor a grain in the darkness of the earth, nor anything green nor dry but (it is all) in a clear book
PICKTHAL: and with him are the keys of the invisible. none but he knoweth them. and he knoweth what is in the land and the sea. not a leaf falleth but he knoweth it, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, naught of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a clear record.
YUSUFALI: with him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knoweth but he. he knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. not a leaf doth fall but with his knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness (or depths) of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered), but is (inscribed) in a record clear (to those who can read).

as-salaammu aleykum,

Bro Rashad:
I wrote this thread quickly, I apologize to everyone for not explaining in detail what determinism and indeterminism was. Jazakallahu khairan bro Rashad for explaining them. About studying philosophy it is compulsory for us to study one course. About some matters it is beneficial and yes it is sometimes bothersome.

Jazakallahu khairan for the other answers and your clever examples.

I think now I undrestand the answer to them. I think the reason why I got confused was because the first one of them believed in fate. We do have our free will. We decide to believe or disbelieve, to obey or disobey. The things that we don't have control on (eye colour etc.) we won't be taken responsible for them. Like the prophet
(SAAS) said deeds are recorded according to intentions.

Maybe you would like to read this thread (Philosophy).

Or maybe you wouldn't.

Is it true that every human being that existed, has his fate written for them, so is it unchangeable.:Wa:

Originally Posted by AlHoda

Is it true that every human being that existed, has his fate written for them, so is it unchangeable.:Wa:

Sister, this life is like a bridge we build for ourselves whether it'd be to Paradise or Hell. It depends on what you mean by your question, please elaborate. If you mean about faith and deeds, those are things that we choose. Such as like I said to believe or disbelieve, forbit evil/not to...

Originally Posted by Uthmān

Maybe you would like to read this thread (Philosophy).

Or maybe you wouldn't.

JazakalLahu khairan . I would love to, maybe at school on breaks.

Originally Posted by _muslim_

Sister, this life is like a bridge we build for ourselves whether it'd be to Paradise or Hell. It depends on what you mean by your question, please elaborate. If you mean about faith and deeds, those are things that we choose. Such as like I said to believe or disbelieve, forbit evil/not to...

Yes I mean that, like faith and deeds and destiny of Hell and Paradise.