So legalising prostitution , the consent age, nightclubbing, drinking, drugs - thats all helping establish islam?

Dont forget the manifesto is what they show just to get you to vote so that their side can win! Once they are in power its a whole different story - everyone was witness to this with the labour party.

They will only show you one side of their policy.

So the fact that democracy clearly states that no one is above the one whom crates laws in the houses of parliament isnt haram? When we clearly know that Allaah is above us?

The fact that you are going by man made laws and not by Allaahs law is not haraam?

BUMP - everyone here needs to read this inshaAllaah

i heard that in some cases it's premissible to vote, but this is a very controversial issue.

^^ i read umar bakris name and i ran from that site <_< he and his people say WACKO things


regarding voting..im not sure..dont concern me just yet so not obthered.
on one side you could say `we vote for the less of the evils`
on other side we day that this `less of evils` are the same evils that are destroyign the muslims quietly
personally i think my labour mp is fab he supports the muslims loads and was eve n called a traitor by other labour mps..standing against iraq
against those terrorism laws
stood for muslims in the gujarat massacres
all sorts..hes cool

Im sure you mean "less of the two evils"

or at least that is what I have been told

yup i think thats what my dad told me

i ask
do these people know the severity of calling others infidels? is that what they do? mcb may be a bit yh but calling them munafiqs? i want a good answer on these people please

and number two

who is behind this site?

Again, I will repeat that the majority of scholars agree that the Muslims should vote to bring about Islamic values.


This did not seem like a very authorative website. I am not sure what you consider "evidences".

Actually, that burden of proof rests on you. You have to prove that voting is haraam, because in islam, everything is halal unless otherwise stated.

Actually you've just proven my point. These are all things which are against Islam, so we should vote against them! If we don't vote, then we are allowing this evil to become established, and we are sinning.

That's hardly a reason not to vote! This kind of treachery only occurs because muslims don't vote so they care very little about our views. If all muslims began to vote, then we would have a huge influence on politics, and no party would dare to betray us. If they did, they wouldn't be able to get back in office.

Anyways, you asked for evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah, so I'll give it to you.

EVIDENCE THAT VOTING IS AN ISLAMIC DUTY

3:104 Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.

Muslims are commanded to enjoin what is good and forbid what is bad. If we see an evil thing taking root in our country, then we must forbid it and take action against it. We must vote for the good and against what is bad. We cannot be silent and allow evil to become established, that is against the Qur'an.

For example, if a party is known to be hateful to muslims, we should vote against them, and vote for those who are loyal to Muslims.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action]; and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out]; and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong] _ and that is the weakest of faith." (Narrated by Muslim, 49)

In non-muslim countries, we see many things that are being done wrong. Why is it that we do not take action? What prevents us from actiing upon this hadith? We should stop the evil with our hands, by using our hands to cast the vote- a vote against kufr, and a vote for Islam.

I assure you I have never intentionally taken a hadith or ayat out of context. I have quoted the entire matn as it appears in the Islamic texts. If you could show me ottherwise, I would appreciate it.

I assure you, that if there was a vote as to whether we should have a "hufr system" or an Islamic system, we muslims would vote for the Islamic system. We are NOT voting for a kufr system when wer cast our vote in non-muslim countries. We are voting for Islamic values to be implemented gradually to replace the "Kufr system". Our duty as Muslims is to spread the light of Islam. We can't accomplish that by hiding in our homes. We need to vote so that we have an Islamic influence in these countries.

Please elaborate. I fail to see how voting for Islamic values constitutes voting against what Allah swt has revealed.

As a matter of fact, I have supported my position with what Allah swt has revealed, while it is interesting to note that the opponenets of voting have not supported their side with any islamic evidence.

Again, I ask you to demonstrate to me what remains of the hadeeth that I have left out.

The analogy is flawed in itself because of a number of reasons:
-Muslims were sent by the Prophet Muhammad saws to live oin non-muslim lands, hence it is permissable to live in a non-muslim country. Meanwhile, It is not permissable to join a gang.
-Intoxicants are prohibited, while voicing Islamic values is an obligation

You would first have to prove that voting is haraam, before we can accept such a notion.

On this issue, Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Saalih Al-Munajjid says:
Hence, you're condemnation of voting is against the Ijmaa of the scholars.

Lots of scholars also disagree so it cant be Ijmaa.

The site is still under construction, but still has articles on the kufr of voting referenced with verses from Quraan etc. - maybe thats not enough evidence for some.

With regards to voting and in particular legislating one of Allah (SWT)’s attributes is AL HAKIM meaning the only law-giver. So if anyone who legislates laws that are that are not from qur’an and sunnah, then this person becomes a taghoot (a falsr god/deity) as only Allah is AL HAKIM the One who legislates Law. There are many verses of the qur’an to prove that Allah (swt) is the only law giver “The hukm (legislation) is for none but Allah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him, that is the straight religion, but most men know not” (Yoosuf 12:40) and “And He makes none share in His decision and rule (hukm)” (Al-Kahf 18:26)

These verses of the qur’an prove without doubt that only Allah has the right of making laws that should be followed by man. And we as muslims can not obey any Laws that have been legislated by other than ALLAH. “Or do they have partners with Allah to legislate for them in the deen what Allah does not allow” (ash Shoora 42:21) and “And eat not of that on which the name of Allah is not pronounced, for surely that is fisq (an act of disobedience). And verily the Shayaateen inspire their friends (from mankind) to argue with you. And if you obey them then you would indeed be mushrikoon” (Al-An’am 6:121)

All these verses prove that if we take someone as a law giver besides Allah (SWT), then we would be guilty of committing major shirk with Allah. Now if a person is voting to elect a certain political party into power, which will implement kufr laws. Then not only is he recognising the taghoot, but he/she is giving the party the power to become the taghoot and to implement kufr.

Even scratching the surface and not going into too much detail on the topic of Allahs Names and Attributes prove the misguidance of voting for man made law - Shirk in the Names and Attributes of Allah. (Shirkul Asmaa was Sifaat) Allah is Al Haakim, Al Hakeem, Al A’leem (The All Knowing), Al Khabeer (The All Aware), Al Wakeel (The Disposer of Affairs), Al A’dil (The Just), Al Kaafi (The Sufficient), Al Malik (The King), An Naasir (The Helper), Al Waali (The Governor and Ally) So the one who turned to man in order to legislate for him and to guide him in lifes affairs in contradiction to tawheed has rejected many of the Names and Attributes of Allah and by this he entered into shirk with regards to these attributes so that he considered man made law more just than the law of Allah and did not consider the shari’ah as sufficient for legislation and guidance. Allah (swt) said “Most of them do not believe in Allah except that they join partners with Him” (Yoosuf 12:106) and “That He may punish the hypocrites men and women and the mushrik men and women those who have an evil opinion of Allah…” (al Fath 48:6) and “Surely Allah will not forgive the association of partners with Him, but He forgives less than that of whomever He wishes.” (an Nisaa’ 4:48)

Also if we look at the methodology adopted by the Prophet (saw), the Nabi (saw) united the Muslims under tawheed and fought against shirk verbally and physically and always governed by shari’ah, he never sought judgement from kuffaar in contradiction to the revelation. Allah (swt) says “And whoever contradicts and opposes the messenger after the right path has been shown clearly to him and follows a way other than that of the believers, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen and land him in Hell, what an evil destination.” (an Nisaa’ 4:115). The Nabi (saw) also never compromised, When the mushrikoon of the Quraysh sought Nabi (saw) to compromise the exclusive call to tawheed Nabi (saw) rejected their call and sooratul kaafiroon was revealed which gave the clear answer “Say: O you disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way and to me mine” (al Kaafiroon 109:1-6)and “And whoever seeks a deen other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers.” (aali I’mraan 3:85) and “So obey not the deniers. They wish that you should compromise with them so they would compromise with you.” (al Qalam 68:8-9)

Also the prohibition of obeying anybody accept in good throws the argument that we can stop some evil out of the window, so even if the man-made laws had agreed outwardly with the shari’ah this still would have been munkar as its motivation and intention was not to please Allah and not to obey Allah but only to arrange affairs to please people, business groups, political parties and to receive a salary. However, the laws contradicted Islam in its belief and details, they contradicted the belief by declaring that man should legislate and decide his own way of life and to separate all religion from education, politics and society. In the details they made halaal alcohol, riba, pornography, abortion, fornication, adultery, homosexuality, public indecency etc. Nawaas bin Sama’aan that Nabi (saw) said “There is no obedience to the creation in disobedience to the Creator.” (BAGHAWI in ‘Sharhus Sunnah’ [10/44] AHMAD, AL HAAKIM) and A’li reported that Nabi (saw) said “…There is no obedience in disobedience to Allah. Obedience is in Ma’roof.” (MUSLIM kitaabul Imaarah [no.4536], BUKHAARI [Eng vers. Vol. 9 no.259])

Hence the following fall within the aspects of Shirk -

1 Voting for man made legislation
2 Standing for election to legislate
3 Membership of a party that is established to legislate
4 Calling on people to support and vote for man-made legislation

Whoever has performed any of these acts then they should repent to Allah and try to inform others who they have previously called to these errors.

If we were to accept the points of this article, we would have to accept that it is haraam to live in a non-muslim country. But as we know, the Prophet saws sent Muslims to luve under non-muslim rule, and the practice occured with the salaf as well.

And, I pointed out that no one is voting for the system itself, so based on that point, your entire argument collapses. We are voting for Islamic values to be established.

And lastly, I even showed you the quote from Shaykh Saalih Al-Munajjid. Your ijtihad cannot supercede the Ijmaa of the scholars. If he says that no one can call muslim voters committing kufr or shirk, then that's it. Unless you are saying that he is misguided in his fatwa. If you are not saying that he is misguided, then you must cease this campaign against voting.

salaam

i would to mention one thing to you brother and that is: we are allowed to move to a kufr country, HOWEVER under one condition and that is that we spread that religion of Allah. under no other circumtances can we move to a kufr country.

Yes, and on this topic, Shaykh Khalid Al-Maajid says

There should be a legitimate need for settling in their country, which cannot be met in the Muslim lands, such as trade, da’wah, officially representing a Muslim country, or seeking knowledge that is not available in a Muslim country either because it does not exist there, or what is available is not of good quality. Or there should be fear of death, prison or torture, not mere harassment, for oneself or for one’s family and children, or fear for one’s wealth.

And doubtlessly, if one is going to stay there, then they should have the intention to establish Islamic values and bring about change in the system, which is accomplished by voting.

What I don't understand is why someone would live in a non-muslim country if they don't want to vote? The claims that it is submitting to kufr rule means that these Muslims who hate voting should not be living in western countries, because they are "submitting to kufr rule" themselves! If they don't want to vote, they should go to a muslim majority country.