Salam,
Why then do you believe in the Qur'an, it was passed on by the same people, no?

Salaam Alpha Dude,


I don't believe the Quran was word of mouth. I believe that it was always written down whenever a verse was revealed. I also believe that God has protected it. There is nothing to establish hadiths from Quran.

salaam

But it was passed on by these very same people that compiled the hadiths right?

I was talking about a social issue dealing with hadiths.

Well you could have clarified this inshAllah, it would have helped but either way hadith are based upon Quranic teachings and either way are benficial to us beings

Why do you going about and mocking? That's haraam.

Anyways...

Of course you think that they are from the MEssenger. But I do not believe so. I believe that they are lies.

It's really hard talking to you when you insist on mocking. It's hard to take you seriously because you seem to add nothing to this debate by meaningless questions. Your questions offer no proof that they really are from the Messenger. So "LOL" all that you like... you still have not provided any evidence besides "His sahaba loved him" that they are really sayings of the MEssenger, and that his Sahaba really said those things.

I am sorry if i appeared somewhat mocking, i did not mean to question your intelligence God forbid, I was simply making a point that to me it seems so vivid and kinda funny
Did you not read the QURANIC verse about the Prophet [Pbuh] being closer to his companions then his ownself??

But where did you get this faith from? Does the Quran tell you this? If so, where? Now you are using somehting besides the Quran to establish your faith!

Where in the Quran does it say that the Sahaba will do this??? Where does it demand them to do this? You have no source to back up your reason for having faith in them. The Quran definitly did not tell you this. You are putting your faith in the hands of man and calling their sayings "divine".

Do you not see how unexcusable your reasoning is?

I'm quite sure that even the scholars you look up to would take a double take on what you are saying. At least they would establish their position by using the Quran... Now you are completly setting up your faith without the need for Quran to tell you this. Wow.

Okey I need you to answer me sumin' den i will respond to those rehtorical questions
1) How doya fink the Quran was compiled?
2) Do you think the Sahabah existed?



So you follow weak hadiths aswell??
No i take opionions from renowned scholars who have studied the hadith in depth and i base my final verdict after having looked at a collection of hadeeth inshAllah

Gaber Ibn Abdullah said, " The messenger of God prohibited a man from crossing one leg over
the other while lying down on his back "


Ebada Ibn Tameem said , his father said that he saw the messenger of God lying down on his
back in the mosque while crossing his legs."

Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said, "Do not drink while standing up, if someone forgot and did it, he should vomit what he drank."


Post the sources and in what book of hadith they are found inshAllah
Peace x

Why do some people reject hadith? The answer is quite simple - ignorance. Hadith-rejectors are not scholars who have studied the sciences of Hadith and the meticulous system of classification behind them. They are laymen who have no education in Islamic sciences, come across some hadith that they don't understand or that seems problematic to them, and conseuqently they conclude "It doesn't make sense to me, therefore it can't be true!"

The problem is you do not understand what the hadith and the hadith compilations are. The Qur'an commands us to follow the way of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and accept his teachings. In fact it negates the faith of anyone who fails to do so:

4:65 But no, by your Lord (O Muhammad), they have no Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.
This is another one of your miscocneptions. We don't accept the hadith in Sahih Bukhari because they were compiled by Imaam Bukhari. We accept them because they have gone through the most rigorous process of authentication by the scholars, and the efforts of the Muslim scholars for over a millenia have confirmed their authenticity. You misunderstand the function of the compilers of hadith - they were collecting the hadith that had already been recorded and transmitted and after authenticating them included them in their collection. And the efforts of the hadith scholars were built on the efforts of those who preceded them and confirmed by the efforts of those who came after them. Why hasn't Sahih Ibn Hibban achieved the status of Sahih Bukhari? Was it because Imam Ibn Hibban was any less of a scholar? No, it is because the hadith in Sahih Ibn Hibban went through the authentication process and the scholars found some hadith to be inauthentic, so overall the compilation does not hold the same status as Sahih Bukhari which has unanimously been upheld to be completely authentic by the Muslim scholars.
Myth. The hadith were recorded during the Prophet's lifetime by the companions; see br. kadafi's post here:
ALL MYTHS ABOUT AHADEETH DEBUNKED HERE (Ahadeeth Myths)
He didn't leave it up to you - you don't understand the rigorous process behind the authentication of hadith because you have never studied that science. Yet for some reason you have the audacity to pass judgement on a subject you are ignorant of! Ahadith are not authenticated by some randomized process - the content as well as the chain of narration for each hadith is studied carefully to determine its authenticity, and this isn't done by just one scholar - this is the collective efforts of all the Muslim hadith scholars throughout Islamic history.

Another point - it is always amusing to note hadith rejectors says, "But some of these hadith contradict the Qur'an". They forget that one of the requirements for a hadith's authenticity is that it be in accordance with the Qur'an, so the scholars of hadith already checked that before passing their judgement on it. What a hadith rejector really means when they make such a comment is that the hadith contradicts their ill-informed and mistaken understanding of the Qur'an.

See the following thread where three hadith rejectors' arguments were utterly devastated:
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ith-women.html
They made the claim that some authentic hadith contradicted the Qur'an, but they failed to provide even a single example to support their claim.

You're asking the wrong question. If we agree that God mandated for us to follow the Prophet pbuh, then the question should be whether these hadith are authentic in what they ascribe to the Prophet. By mandating obedience to the Prophet, God has mandated for us to follow all of the sayings and teachings of the Prophet which have been authentically transmitted to us.

If you think this verse is saying that there is no need for information beyond the Qur'an, then you haven't read the entire Qur'an:

Qur'an 16:44 And We have also sent down unto you the reminder, that you may tubayyina (EXPLAIN CLEARLY) to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.

If al that we need was the verses of the Qur'an, then why would Allah swt ordain for the Prophet pbuh to explain what had been revealed? This clearly means that the explanations are themselves divinely ordained by Allah.

For more information, please refer to br. kadafi's post which concisely debunks the prevalent myths amongst hadith rejectors:
http://www.islamicboard.com/212874-post5.html (Ahadeeth Myths)

Braaap Braaaaaap Braaaaaap Respect blessed Akhi!...Well said MashAllah Peace x

>rule17

Sister Boistop!

My advice to you would be pray to Allah sincerely to give you Guidance. I'm sure if you ask for it sincerely, inshAllah it will help you a lot.

Well wisher

When i first read the Qur'an i understoond much of it perfectly fine except for a few things here and there, it was when i read the hadith was when confusion set it. Moral of the story, reverts do not always understand it as easily opposed to people who were a Muslim from birth. I do not think its true that a person cannot understand one without the other, that was not my experience anyway.

Salam,
I think that if one were to reject the hadith and make their own interpretations on what the Qur'an says, then no doubt there will end up being large differences in terms of what is being practiced. These differences would, IMHO adversely affect the progress towards unity...

I agree to an extent , but just as you say without the hadith there will be large differences in terms of what is being practiced by muslims?
Doesnt this happen regardless just from simple interpretation differences by people everyday. Also how about cultural differences in how some muslims practice, for example some muslim countries still have barbaric practices that have nothing to do with Islam, but claim it does for their own agendas.
To put simply there will always be differences in how peopple understand something.

------ There is only one Islam and that is the Islam that there Prophet and his Companions were on, people who reject hadiths are far from the Islam of Prophet Muhammad. There are 73 sects and only one is saved, the People of the Sunnah.

------

Actually it is my place and job to tell you what you are saying is taking you out of the fold of Islam. As Muslims we check our ideas with other Muslims to make the sure the Shaytan is not perverting our Islam. Muslims have rights over other Muslims to make sure they are on the Islam of the Prophet and if that means I have to be blunt about it I'll do it. Although I will admit that it is better for a scholar to do since he has studied over 16 years to become a schlar but if I see something that is wrong like rejecting hadith I have a duty to make you aware of your innovation in religion.

You see the Prophet Muhammad came to fulfill the Prophet of Deutaronamy where every word and action would be written down. The Prphet is an example in word and deed. You need the hadith to implement Islam in your life and if you reject hadith then you have innovated your faith.

There is a science to the hadith Boistop which has been touched on by others through the character, his actions and past and so on. I cant remember this off by heart but I think it is narrated that Abu Hurayra came to get hadith from a man and by the way he treated his camel he refused to believe him. There are very sound methodolgies to understanding the compiliation of hadith and to reject them is to reject Islam as a whole. You cannot accept one aspect of Islam then refuse another, it is everything or nothing. Islam is a whole package. If a person were to refuse to believe in the Prophet hood of Jesus (AS) then he refuses to believe in the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), it is the same logic with the hadith.

The other Brothers and sisters have given you good verses where it is proven that you must obey the messenger ------. You must take the Quran and Sunnah to implement Islam thats plain and simple. We as Muslims do not have to read all the hadith to determine which ones are authentic or not the Prophets Companions have done it for us. Next your probably going to tell us that because Abu Bakr compiled the ayah of Quran into one Book the Quran is to be rejected too. The Prophet Muhammad didnt make the recitations into a book, it was Abu Bakr with the help of the head scrib, and later through Umar. So will you reject the Quran now?

------

Islam is a complete way of life, please stop trying to reform or change Islam because you cant and wont, Allah SWT has done it for mankind Himself.

Salam,

Can't argue with what you have stated... but the fact remains that if everyone was to make their own interpretations, there would be an exponental increase in discrepencies as opposed to the set number that are in existance as of this precise moment in time.

Reminder - Please lay off the sectarian discussion. If it continues, this thread must be closed.

13. No sectarian issues allowed. We are promoting the unity of Islam. Allah (Exalted is He) said in Surah Al-An'âm, verse 159:

Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad -- Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allâh, Who then will tell them what they used to do.

How could the prophet's companions determine which of the Hadiths were fake or fabricated when the stories were written about two hundreds years after the death of the prophet and when none of his companions was alive? Take reason in showing scholarship !