[url="http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/082.sbt.html#008.082.810"]Salam,
I'm a 25 year old male, and have been a devout muslim for most of my life. Like everyone, I've made my fair share of mistakes, and asked for forgiveness afterwards. I've lived in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan for several years, and I've never questioned what I've been taught and what I've read in the Islamic texts that I've had access to over the years. Until now.
Recently, I was sent a link to a video of a young girl being stoned to death in a public square in northern Iraq, and this had a profound effect on me. It was almost too difficult to watch, but I felt like it was my duty to do so since the people engaging in the brutal killing chanted cries of "Allahu Akbar" and thus proclaiming themselves to be representatives of Islam. Essentially they beat this poor 17 year old girl to death with stones and then finished her off with a cinder block to the head, because she had committed zina with a non-Muslim man. I felt dirty and wrong from just watching it.
I spent many hours researching the views of Islam on stoning to death as capital punishment, hoping that I was misinformed about it being allowed in Islam. Unfortunately, this was not the case. My suspicions were confirmed that while it isn't mentioned in the Quran, several aHadith related by Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim give us quotes from the Prophet (PBUH) recommending stoning to death as punishment for such offenders.
(For example, here: USC link)

Now, I am not sure what to do as this is causing many conflicting views within my mind and heart about what I've believed and followed all along. I can post the video of the unfortunate young soul who was stoned to death on video, but I refrain from doing so since there might be younger children on the forums. I will gladly send you the link if you send me a private message.

If there are any learned Islamic scholars on this forum, I would love to hear your thoughts on my dilemma, as well as the thoughts of my fellow brothers and sisters. This is not something, in my opinion, that I can easily reconcile. We are supposed to be bringers of peace, and murdering young women in this fashion seems wrong to me regardless of what she did or planned to do.

Wasalam,
nydweller

^ Regarding that video: Wasn't her uncles and family not Muslim or something? They were some ol' skool religion type people...not Muslim right? There was a thread on this...and the video had nothing to do with Islaam.

Allaahu A'lam.

That does not explain the chants of "Allah-u-Akbar" and nor does it explain the many many aHadith related in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim about the Prophet's recommendation of stoning to death as capital punishment for crimes of adultery.

Asalaamu 'alykum (peace be upon you.) brother nydweller


First of all, to clarify the position about that girl being stoned to death - i think you may have misunderstood. The article was on a non muslim girl becoming muslim, and she wanted to marry a muslim guy, and because her family were against it - they stoned her to death. These people followed an ancient religion of the Iraqi's. And Allaah knows best.



http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...-internet.html (Iraqi girl's stoning shown on Internet)




This is a response to the issue of stoning however (by brother Ansar), since we know that the ruling is authentic. The issue of stoning the face/head etc. isn't permitted either. Anyway, heres the article:

The punishment of stoning is the hadd punishment for the married adulterer, which essentially entails that it functions exclusively as a deterrent. Here's why. To apply this punishment you need four witnesses to the actual act of penetration who observed it from four different angles and if there is even the slightest contradiction in the most minute details of their testimony, they are punished with eighty lashes for false accusation of adultery. Thus, the implementation of the hadd punishment for zina is a practical impossibility. As the fatwâ committee under the supervision of Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahâb At-Turaryrî notes:

It is not enough for four people to show up at court and give testimony. The witnesses and their backgrounds have to be carefully scrutinized by the courts to determine their trustworthiness and honesty. They have to be able to demonstrate that they saw the crime. It is not easy to explain how one was able to witness such an act without being guilty of any wrongdoing oneself. The witnesses have to see actual sexual penetration. This is not an easy thing to explain.

If the condition of four witnesses of determined trustworthiness is not fulfilled, each of those who accused the person of adultery is given 80 lashes with a whip as the punishment for bearing false witness.

Allah says: “And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.” [Sûrah al-Nûr: 4]

The punishments for fornication and adultery are designed more to protect society from the open practice of licentious sexual behavior than they are designed to punish people.

It is nearly impossible to get a conviction for adultery except in a case where it is carried out in public for all eyes to see. With this threat of severe punishment, people will keep their evil deeds concealed and society as a whole will be protected.

It is worth noting that in the 1400 years of Islamic history, these stringent conditions have never been met even once. And due to the deterrent effect, sexual immorality is suffocated and eradicated in an Islamic society.

In spite of all this, if the impossibility became reality and the punishment were to be carried out, then how would it be done? For the person who is convicted of such a heinous licentious act they would be placed in a pit and pelted to death while covered by a cloth so that their 'awrah is not exposed. If it is by confession and not conviction, they would have the opportunity to retract their confession at any point in time and so they would not be placed in a pit. No one is allowed to curse the person who undergoes this or express pleasure.

For the reasons outlined above, it is evident that whatever movie you have seen could by no stretch of the imagination be construed as Islamic, as this punishment is a practical impossibility and even then would never occur in the manner described.



http://www.islamicboard.com/591159-post9.html (Stoning)

thank you brother for that detailed answer to my somewhat troublesome dilemma. do you think you could post links or actual text of aHadith backing up the need for four witnesses for four angles, and all the other details which you have mentioned?

In my humble opinion, we cannot know that a religion is "right" or "wrong" until we are faced with whatever it is that waits for us in the afterlife. But it is up to us to use the intelligence and awareness we have been given to ask these questions and learn through such inquisitions. Moral standards are one thing, but brutal murder is another. I don't have the right to say what is right and wrong, but the best I can do is figure out for myself what I want to relate with.

The verse about the 4 witnesses is mentioned in the article:


Allah says: “And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.” [Sûrah al-Nûr: 4]


And the amazing part is that according to Islamic law, only the adulterer who is married should get the punishment. Therefore - what happened to them youth, if they weren't ever married before - then the ruling would be more relaxed. And Allaah knows best.


Also, brother Ansar (who writ that article) said the following:


http://www.islamicboard.com/592099-post28.html (Stoning)

but where can i read about four witnesses and four angles and all the minute details having to match up?

I'd also like to ask what then, is the meaning of the verses from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim in which the Prophet recommends the stoning of a person to death, and the once that I posted a link to in which the relater of the Hadith actually claims to have participated in the stoning of a person to death?

The 4 witnesses have to actually see the act of intercourse take place:

The fuqaha’ (may Allaah have mercy on them) stated that the basic act of zinaa which carries the punishment is illegal sexual intercourse, whereby the two “circumcised parts” [i.e. genitals] come together and there is penetration of the tip of the penis, because this is actual penetration (which carries the prescribed hadd or punishment).

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=3013&ln=eng&txt=

Do you really think that these people in the video saw that occur? Infact, did it even occur?

Even if we were to forget the actual video, do you really think that there would be 4 witnesses in the same room when this action is occuring? And they see it clearly with their own eyes? (penetration of the tip of the penis, because this is actual penetration)


If they never saw any of this occur, even if it was 3 witnesses and there wasn't a 4th, they would be lashed 80 lashes each for accusing them of zina. Even if they see the couple in the same bed, but they don't see the actual penetration occur - they can't testify.


The only way this could truelly have 4 witnesses is if the people who commited that act did so publically out of showing off. We as muslims know that the act of fornication occurs, it even occured in peoples homes at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.) However, Islaam tries to stop the evil from becoming public and widespread. This way there is less corruption and less people incline towards it - out of fear of punishment, aswell as fear of being exposed.



And Allaah knows best.

Thank you. Also, just to clarify the video and the people in it are not the issue here for me. It is simply what got me to thinking and questioning, which is when I came here and posted.

Again, the way a person can be stoned is;


1) If there are 4 trustworthy witnesses who testify to the fact that they saw the actual penetration occur.

2) The person him/herself testifies to their ownself. However, if there aren't 4 witnesses, and the person repents while keeping it between him/herself and Allaah, then Allaah is still willing to forgive them. That's why, if you read the hadith which you quoted - it was the same man which Allaah's Messenger turned away from 3 or 4 times. Then when he persisted and made his claim public, then he was stoned for that, and Allaah forgave him insha Allaah.

If someone repents or recieves the hadd prescribed punishment - they are forgiven for that crime in the hereafter. And Allaah knows best.

Thank you to everyone who replied.

Certainly some food for thought that I'll need to have my mind chew on for a while.


Wasalam.

Alhamdulillah if you ever have anymore questions, please do ask. Since the cure to ignorance is asking.