Moving index finger during Tashahhud

zena_a · **Moving index finger during Tashahhud -** 12-15-2007

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "It is more powerful against the Shaytaan than iron" (reported by Imaam Ahmad, 2/119, with a hasan isnaad, as stated in Sifat al-Salaah, p. 159), i.e., pointing with the forefinger during the Tashahhud is more painful to the Shaytaan than being beaten with a rod of iron, because it reminds the slave of the Unity of Allaah and to be sincere in his worship of Him alone, and this is what the Shaytaan hates most; we seek refuge with Allaah from him.(al-Fath al-Rabbani by al-Saa'idi, 4/15).

Sister-Ameena* · **Re: moving index finger during tashahuud -** 12-23-2007

In regards to moving one's hand during tashahuud, I've heard that you are supposed to move it in a circle direction (it represents tawheed - the oneness of Allaah). Can anyone shed some light on this, or provide a daeel, inshaa Allaah? Because during madrassa, the mucaliim taught us to either point the finger upwards without moving it, or repeatedly put it up and down. I have seen this occur a lot, especially during Salat-ul Jum'aa.

**Abdul Baari** · **Re: moving index finger during tashahuud -** 12-23-2007

Some Q&A > http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...20the%20finger

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...eng&txt=finger

Hope they help, Inha'Allah

Sister-Ameena* · **Re: moving index finger during tashahuud -** 12-23-2007

Barakallahu feek akhi, since there is no evidence that the prophet (SAW) used to move his finger in a circle direction, then I will not do so. I guess my sisters in Jam'aa were right.

Jazakallahu khair akhi, and may Allaah keep us on the righteous path and away from bi'dah, allahumma ameen.

Al-Zaara · **Re: moving index finger during tashahuud -** 12-23-2007

Selam aleykum we rahmetallahu,

There is a difference of opinions on this matter, so I also suggest you do not go and say "that's totally wrong" to someone who does this, or who doesn't do this. This is better adaab inshaAllah.

Read here:
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/fatwa/S...Option=FatwaId

I myself am Hanafi and follow the Hanafi opinion which is to raise it while saying "ashhadu al laa ilaha illallah" and lower it when saying "wa ash hadu anna muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu" and to keep the finger pointed steadily forward while raised, not moving, and to join the middle finger and thumb to make a ring while doing it.

I have heard the stronger opinion is that one is not to move but, I won't make any statements of that kind, always better to ask learned ones.

Allahu Aleem.

Sister-Ameena* · **Re: moving index finger during tashahuud -** 12-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al-Zaara

Selam aleykum we rahmetallahu,

There is a difference of opinions on this matter, so I also suggest you do not go and say "that's totally wrong" to someone who does this, or who doesn't do this. This is better adaab inshaAllah.

Read here:
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/fatwa/S...Option=FatwaId

I myself am Hanafi and follow the Hanafi opinion which is to raise it while saying "ashhadu al laa ilaha illallah" and lower it when saying "wa ash hadu anna muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu" and to keep the finger pointed steadily forward while raised, not moving, and to join the middle finger and thumb to make a ring while doing it.

I have heard the stronger opinion is that one is not to move but, I won't make any statements of that kind, always better to ask learned ones.

Allahu Aleem.

Yep sis, in the links brother 'Abdullah provided it said there was a difference of opinion between the scholars (RA) and that the strongest one was Imaam Ahmed ibn Hanbal (RA). But, it also provided links on the how the Prophet (SAWS) himself did it, so inshaa Allaah I will strive to follow his sunnah.

It's very important to make sure that your salaah is perfect, and even wudhu, because if it isn't then Allaah Ta'ala will not accept it. Subhan Allaah some people have been praying their wholes in an incorrect way, may Allaah keep us safe from that. I also remember reading somewhere that there was a scholar that perfected his salaah in 20 years, subhan Allaah what patience. It just goes to show.

**Muhammad** · **Re: moving index finger during tashahuud -** 01-01-2008

A good detailed book about mistakes made in prayer is: The Clarified Ruling of Mistakes done in Salaah - By the Jordanian Shaykh Mashhur Hasan Al Salman, who was a student of Imaam Al-Albaani (rahimahullaah). You can find an english translation online at:

http://abdurrahman.org/salah/qawl.pdf

It has a discussion on moving the index finger during tashahhud (starting on page 153), so I've pasted some relevant parts of it here, which I hope will help clarify some issues Insha'Allaah. The most relevant parts are highlighted in blue:

Quote:

[11/22] Abandoning moving one’s right index in Tashahhud:

Ahmad in his “Musnad” (vol. 4/ p. 318), An-Nasā’ī his “Mujtabā” (vol. 2/ pp. 126- 7), (vol. 3/ p. 371), Abū Dāwūd in his “Sunnan” (no. 713), Ibn Khuzaimah in his “Sahīh” (no. 480, 714), Ibn Al- Jārūd in “Al- Muntaqā” (no. 208), Ibn Hibban in his” Sahīh” (no. 1851), Al- Baihaqī in “As- Sunnan Al- Kubrā” (vol. 2/pp. 27, 28 and 132) and At- Tabarānī in “Al- Mu’jam Al- Kabīr”

(vol. 22/ p. 35) from Wā’il Ibn Hujr to have said: ‘Indeed, I will watch how the prophet () performs his Salāt. I watched him carefully; he () recited Takbīr, raising his hands,.. (till he said): ‘then raised his [right] index and I saw him moving it and calling into Allāh’.

This is an explicit authentic narration stating the movement of the index finger [in Salāt]. In another narration, the narrator Ibn Hujr used the simple present tense “Yarfa’”[moving] which implies the continuity of this act till the end of one’s Salāt not only when mentioning the word “Allāh” [in the Tashahhud] or when saying “lā Ilāhā Illā Allāh” in it as some Fuqahā’ held for this is based on no hard evidence.(1)

Shaikh Al-‘Athīm Al-‘Ābādī affirmed this point saying: ‘This hadīth indicates that it should be moved continuously [in Tashahhud]’.(2)

Then it discusses various ahadeeth about moving the index finger, and continues:

Quote:

Al-Qurtubi said: ‘The ‘Ulamah differed regarding moving the index finger [in Tashahhud]; some held that one should move it, others held the opposite opinion. Both groups based their rulings on evidences form the authentic Sunnah, so both acts could be performed [alternately]. AlHamdulillāh’.(4)
Al-‘Amīr As-San’ānī in his “Subul As-Salām” (vol. 1/ pp. 187-8) shared Al-Qurtubi his opinion and so did Ar-Rāfi’ī as reported by Al-Mubārakfūrī who supported both Ar-Rāfi’ī and As-San’ānī.(1)

Moving the [right] index is the soundest of opinions for according to the Fiqh principle” the narration with positive meaning has precedence over the one with a negative meaning. It is so strange that some of those who explained An-Nawawī’s “Al-Minhāj” after narrating Wā’il’s hadīth and having known the preponderance of other ‘Ulamah- reject it and say: ‘The narration that bears the negative has precedence over the one with positive meaning believing this to be the truth and the prophet (

) may have ordered them [i.e. his Sahābah] not to move it in the Salāt’.(2)

And it finishes with:

Quote:

The soundest of all opinions is to apply both narrations, pointing with and moving the [right] index finger as Imām Ahmad said in “Masā’il Ibn Hāni’” (vol. 1 / p. 80). Allāh knows the best.

Quote:

Finally, one must pay attention to the following points:

Quote:

It is of a great importance to attract the reader’s attention to a mistake done by many when moving the index finger which is moving it in a circular way believing that this is what is meant by Wā’il’s narration: ‘I saw the prophet () making a circle with his thumb and middle finger’.

This is indeed a misinterpretation of the hadīth. Some move the index in a manner that was never done by the prophet (

); that is they move it upwards and downwards. The proper manner is to raise the index and move it while it is raised whether upwards and downwards or to the left and right.

Quote:

I hope this has helped Insha'Allaah - for the full discussion, please see the book.

DAWUD_adnan · **Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud -** 01-01-2008

I've learned that one should move it up wards and downwards, but only in such small movements, that if someone was away from you they couldn't see it. Only people who are close to you should be able to see it.

.:abs:. · **Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud -** 01-01-2008

Thanks for the book Muhammed, very useful.

Abdul-Raouf · **Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud -** 01-02-2008

Thank You Sister..for starting this thread.

This thread is useful... Alhamdulillah

adeeb · **Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud -** 01-02-2008

moving the index finger is the part of the sunnah, leave it steady also the part of sunnah... so can choose which one do you want...

about the move, upward-downward, or circle, there is no hadeeth about it, but many scholar believe that it's upward-downward...

Samiu · **Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud -** 04-15-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibn Umayr

Some Q&A > http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...20the%20finger

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...eng&txt=finger

JazakhAllahu khairan bro for posting the links. I have seen them before, but I still do not understand some points regarding the matter.

Quote:

The Sunnah indicates that he should point with it when making du’aa’, because the wording of the hadeeth is “moving it, making du’aa’ with it”. So every time you make du’aa’, move your finger thus indicating the exalted nature of the One to Whom you are addressing your du’aa’s.

Now it is Sunnah to point the right index finger throughout the tashahhud. And to point it towards the Qiblah is also Sunnah.

So how do we move it then? The finger is already pointed or raised towards the Qiblah, so does moving it means moving further up? Or am I missing something? Does pointing means only pointing it towards the Qiblah but still being level with the knuckles (that is pointed but horizontal)?

(That would make sense to move the finger further up while making du'a.) Could someone clarify in accordance with the way of the Salaf?

Quote:

“Al-salaamu ‘alayka ayyuha’l-Nabiyyu (peace be upon you, O Prophet)” – you should point your finger because this salaam is a kind of du’aa’. “Al-salaamu ‘alayna (peace be upon us)” – you should point your finger. “Allaahumma salli ‘ala Muhammad (O Allaah, send blessings upon Muhammad)” – you should point your finger. “Allaahumma baarik ‘ala Muhammad) O Allaah, send blessings upon Muhammad)” – you should point your finger. ‘A’oodhu Billaahi min ‘adhaab jahannam (I seek refuge with Allaah from the torment of Hell)” – you should point your finger. “Wa min ‘adhaab al-qabr (and from the torment of the grave)” – you should point your finger. “Wa min fitnat il-mahya wa’l-mamaat (and from the trials of life and death)” – you should point your finger. “Wa min fitnat il-maseeh il-dajjaal (and from the tribulation of the Dajjaal) – you should point your finger. Every time you make du’aa’ you should point your finger, indicating the greatness of the One to Whom you are making du’aa’. This is closer to the Sunnah.

The above quote is confusing, because the finger is already pointed (since Sunnah is to point throughout). Was the Shaykh referring to raising when he meant pointed?
I feel that we need to move the finger further up while making du'a instead of making circles with it (Right?). But then, is it a one-way movement? That is, we move the finger further up and keep it in that position until Du'a ends? Or do we keep moving up and down till the du'a ends?

Also, if we are moving up and down, does that mean we move the finger down to the original pointed position of the finger?

Again, do we move it at a slow pace or rapidly?

May Allah 'Azzawajal reward you brothers and sisters for your time and help.

E'jaazi · 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al-Zaara

Selam aleykum we rahmetallahu,

There is a difference of opinions on this matter, so I also suggest you do not go and say "that's totally wrong" to someone who does this, or who doesn't do this. This is better adaab inshaAllah.

Read here:
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/fatwa/S...Option=FatwaId

I myself am Hanafi and follow the Hanafi opinion which is to raise it while saying "ashhadu al laa ilaha illallah" and lower it when saying "wa ash hadu anna muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu" and to keep the finger pointed steadily forward while raised, not moving, and to join the middle finger and thumb to make a ring while doing it.

I have heard the stronger opinion is that one is not to move but, I won't make any statements of that kind, always better to ask learned ones.

Allahu Aleem.

Nowhere in the Sunnah does it say to only raise your finger at that point. If you go and read the Hadiths for yourself, you will find this out:

Moving the Finger in Tashahhud

"He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) would spread his left palm on his left knee, clench all the fingers of his right hand, point with the finger adjacent to the thumb towards the qiblah, and fix his sight on it (i.e. the finger)."185

Also, "when he pointed with his finger, he would put his thumb on his middle finger"186, and sometimes "he would make a circle with these two."187

"When he raised his finger, he would move it, supplicating with it"188, and he used to say, "It is surely more powerful against the devil than iron, meaning the forefinger."189

Also, "the Companions of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) used to remind each other, that is, about pointing with the finger when supplicating."190

Once, "he saw a man supplicating with two fingers, so he said, "Make it one, [make it one,]" and indicated with his forefinger."191

"He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) would do this in both tashahhuds."192

So you see, the time for pointing the finger starts when you sit in Sujood. If Imam Abu Hanifa has another authentic hadith that supports your position, I would like to read it.

Samiu · **Re: moving index finger during tashahuud -** 04-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by E'jaazi

Nowhere in the Sunnah does it say to only raise your finger at that point. If you go and read the Hadiths for yourself, you will find this out:

Moving the Finger in Tashahhud

"He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) would spread his left palm on his left knee, clench all the fingers of his right hand, point with the finger adjacent to the thumb towards the qiblah, and fix his sight on it (i.e. the finger)."185

Also, "when he pointed with his finger, he would put his thumb on his middle finger"186, and sometimes "he would make a circle with these two."187

"When he raised his finger, he would move it, supplicating with it"188, and he used to say, "It is surely more powerful against the devil than iron, meaning the forefinger."189

Also, "the Companions of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) used to remind each other, that is, about pointing with the finger when supplicating."190

Once, "he saw a man supplicating with two fingers, so he said, "Make it one, [make it one,]" and indicated with his forefinger."191

"He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) would do this in both tashahhuds."192

So you see, the time for pointing the finger starts when you sit in Sujood. If Imam Abu Hanifa has another authentic hadith that supports your position, I would like to read it.

The Hanafi scholars say that the ruling regarding raising the index finger is from the Hadith as follows:

It is narrated that when Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) used to sit down to supplicate, (to recite tashahhud) he used to place his right hand on his right thigh and his left hand on his left thigh. He would indicate at the time of reciting the shahadah by raising his index finger. He would also join the ends of his thumb and middle finger (thereby forming a circle). [Sahih Muslim, chapter on the description of sitting-Hadith no.579]

Fayrouz · **Re: moving index finger during tashahuud -** 05-11-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samiu

The Hanafi scholars say that the ruling regarding raising the index finger is from the Hadith as follows:

It is narrated that when Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) used to sit down to supplicate, (to recite tashahhud) he used to place his right hand on his right thigh and his left hand on his left thigh. He would indicate at the time of reciting the shahadah by raising his index finger. He would also join the ends of his thumb and middle finger (thereby forming a circle). [Sahih Muslim, chapter on the description of sitting-Hadith no.579]

Someone told me this hadith doesnt exist

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

	(#1 (permalink))
zena_a Limited Member Status: Offline Posts: 25 Reputation: 21 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Dec 2007 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Moving index finger during Tashahhud - 12-15-2007 The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "It is more powerful against the Shaytaan than iron" (reported by Imaam Ahmad, 2/119, with a hasan isnaad, as stated in Sifat al-Salaah, p. 159), i.e., pointing with the forefinger during the Tashahhud is more painful to the Shaytaan than being beaten with a rod of iron, because it reminds the slave of the Unity of Allaah and to be sincere in his worship of Him alone, and this is what the Shaytaan hates most; we seek refuge with Allaah from him.(al-Fath al-Rabbani by al-Saa'idi, 4/15).

	(#2 (permalink))
Sister-Ameena* Obama'08 Status: Online Posts: 1,154 Reputation: 5593 Rep Power: 15 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dunya Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: moving index finger during tashahuud - 12-23-2007 In regards to moving one's hand during tashahuud, I've heard that you are supposed to move it in a circle direction (it represents tawheed - the oneness of Allaah). Can anyone shed some light on this, or provide a daeel, inshaa Allaah? Because during madrassa, the mucaliim taught us to either point the finger upwards without moving it, or repeatedly put it up and down. I have seen this occur a lot, especially during Salat-ul Jum'aa. __________________ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اصْبِرُوا وَصَابِرُوا وَرَابِطُوا وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ O ye who believe! Persevere in patience and constancy; vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah; that ye may prosper. [Surah Aali Imraan 3:200]

	(#3 (permalink))
Abdul Baari LI Lil' Mod Status: Offline Posts: 4,510 Reputation: 27180 Rep Power: 50 Join Date: Aug 2006 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: moving index finger during tashahuud - 12-23-2007 Some Q&A > http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...20the%20finger http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...eng&txt=finger Hope they help, Inha'Allah __________________ شَہۡرُ رَمَضَانَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ ٱلۡقُرۡءَانُ

	(#4 (permalink))
Sister-Ameena* Obama'08 Status: Online Posts: 1,154 Reputation: 5593 Rep Power: 15 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dunya Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: moving index finger during tashahuud - 12-23-2007 Barakallahu feek akhi, since there is no evidence that the prophet (SAW) used to move his finger in a circle direction, then I will not do so. I guess my sisters in Jam'aa were right. Jazakallahu khair akhi, and may Allaah keep us on the righteous path and away from bi'dah, allahumma ameen. __________________ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اصْبِرُوا وَصَابِرُوا وَرَابِطُوا وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ O ye who believe! Persevere in patience and constancy; vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah; that ye may prosper. [Surah Aali Imraan 3:200]

	(#5 (permalink))
Al-Zaara LI's Hanafi Status: Offline Posts: 3,360 Reputation: 31190 Rep Power: 57 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Finland Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: moving index finger during tashahuud - 12-23-2007 Selam aleykum we rahmetallahu, There is a difference of opinions on this matter, so I also suggest you do not go and say "that's totally wrong" to someone who does this, or who doesn't do this. This is better adaab inshaAllah. Read here: http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/fatwa/S...Option=FatwaId I myself am Hanafi and follow the Hanafi opinion which is to raise it while saying "ashhadu al laa ilaha illallah" and lower it when saying "wa ash hadu anna muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu" and to keep the finger pointed steadily forward while raised, not moving, and to join the middle finger and thumb to make a ring while doing it. I have heard the stronger opinion is that one is not to move but, I won't make any statements of that kind, always better to ask learned ones. Allahu Aleem. __________________ 'PEPSI' MEANS 'PRAY EVERY PRAYER, SAVE ISLAM' I'd call you a genius but I'm also here.

	(#8 (permalink))
DAWUD_adnan Striving for Allah Status: Offline Posts: 555 Reputation: 1403 Rep Power: 15 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: penitentiary Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud - 01-01-2008 I've learned that one should move it up wards and downwards, but only in such small movements, that if someone was away from you they couldn't see it. Only people who are close to you should be able to see it. __________________

	(#9 (permalink))
.:abs:. Limited Member Status: Offline Posts: 18 Reputation: 61 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: London, UK Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud - 01-01-2008 Thanks for the book Muhammed, very useful.

	(#10 (permalink))
Abdul-Raouf Status: Offline Posts: 1,756 Reputation: 5583 Rep Power: 21 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chennai, India Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud - 01-02-2008 Thank You Sister..for starting this thread. This thread is useful... Alhamdulillah __________________ VISIT http://www.islamic-avatars.blogspot.com/ http://www.sahaba.net/

	(#11 (permalink))
adeeb Way to paradise Status: Offline Posts: 442 Reputation: 925 Rep Power: 15 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indonesia Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Moving index finger during Tashahhud - 01-02-2008 moving the index finger is the part of the sunnah, leave it steady also the part of sunnah... so can choose which one do you want... about the move, upward-downward, or circle, there is no hadeeth about it, but many scholar believe that it's upward-downward...