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Thread: 79:30 Quran

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    IB Senior Member Array azim's Avatar
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    Default 79:30 Quran

    Salamu alaykum.

    In this verse, I've heard it translated both as 'made the earth a wide expense' and 'made the earth egg-shaped'. Could an arab speaker please explain whether dahaahaa actually means egg?

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    Malikaat Falesteen Array *charisma*'s Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Assalamu Alaikum

    I think in that verse, it is supposed to be wide expanse, because it states

    079.030 وَالأرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا
    079.030 Wa al-arda baAAda thalika dahaha
    079.030 And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

    the word Ba3ada as i know it means apart, soo im guessing it means expanse not egg lol

    Inshallah someone more knowlegeable than I can answer this

    fi aman Allah
    w'salaam



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    IB Senior Member Array azim's Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    079.030 وَالأرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا
    079.030 Wa al-arda baAAda thalika dahaha
    079.030 And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse)
    Ba-ad-da means afterwards doesnt it? It's the word dahaha I'm confused about. Does it mean wide expense or egg? Jazakallah for the transliteration btw.

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    Jewel of LI Array Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by azim View Post
    Salamu alaykum.

    In this verse, I've heard it translated both as 'made the earth a wide expense' and 'made the earth egg-shaped'. Could an arab speaker please explain whether dahaahaa actually means egg?

    In his book, The Qur'n and the Orientalists, Dr. Muhammad Mohar Ali, former Professor of the History of Islam at the Islamic University of Madinah and Al-Imm University in Riyadh, provides an extensive and detailed discussion on the Qur'anic view of the earth. Here is a relevant excerpt:
    Now, the very first expression in the series, dahh, is noticeably distinctive and different in genre from the rest. Watt, following many other previous translators, renders it as "spread out". But the exact and correct meaning of the term, keeping in view its root, rather provides a very positive Qur'anic evidence in support of the spherical shape of the earth. For dah means to "shape like an egg", its noun being dahiyah, which the Arabs still use to mean an egg. [2]
    __________________________
    [2] M. FATH 'UTHMAN, "Al-'ard F al-Qur'n al-Karm", Proceedings of the First Islamic Geographical Conference", Riyadh, 1404/1984, Vol. IV, 127; A. M. SOLIMAN, Scientific Trends in teh Qur'n, London (Ta-Ha Publications), 1985, p. 16.
    (M. Mohar Ali, The Qur'n and the Orientalists, Jam'iyat 'Ihyaa' Minhaaj Al-Sunnah 2004, p.75)
    Nevertheless, even if we do take the interpretation of 'spread out' as many other commentators and translators do, there is still no conflict with science because, as Syed Qutb points out, the idea that the earth's crust was spread out after the formation of the atmosphere (which could refer either to continental drift or actual cooling of the crust) is a fact confirmed by modern scientific study. Please see this related article:
    http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal..._or_the_Earth/



    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mlik]


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    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Assalamu Alaikum

    Ba-ad-da means afterwards doesnt it? It's the word dahaha I'm confused about. Does it mean wide expense or egg? Jazakallah for the transliteration btw.
    wa iyak
    ah i dont know ekhi, im terrible with fusha subhanallah. and some words do have multiple meanings..
    now im curious lol

    fi aman Allah
    w'salaam



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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Assalamu Alaikum

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl View Post

    In his book, The Qur'n and the Orientalists, Dr. Muhammad Mohar Ali, former Professor of the History of Islam at the Islamic University of Madinah and Al-Imm University in Riyadh, provides an extensive and detailed discussion on the Qur'anic view of the earth. Here is a relevant excerpt:
    Now, the very first expression in the series, dahh, is noticeably distinctive and different in genre from the rest. Watt, following many other previous translators, renders it as "spread out". But the exact and correct meaning of the term, keeping in view its root, rather provides a very positive Qur'anic evidence in support of the spherical shape of the earth. For dah means to "shape like an egg", its noun being dahiyah, which the Arabs still use to mean an egg. [2]
    __________________________
    [2] M. FATH 'UTHMAN, "Al-'ard F al-Qur'n al-Karm", Proceedings of the First Islamic Geographical Conference", Riyadh, 1404/1984, Vol. IV, 127; A. M. SOLIMAN, Scientific Trends in teh Qur'n, London (Ta-Ha Publications), 1985, p. 16.
    (M. Mohar Ali, The Qur'n and the Orientalists, Jam'iyat 'Ihyaa' Minhaaj Al-Sunnah 2004, p.75)
    Nevertheless, even if we do take the interpretation of 'spread out' as many other commentators and translators do, there is still no conflict with science because, as Syed Qutb points out, the idea that the earth's crust was spread out after the formation of the atmosphere (which could refer either to continental drift or actual cooling of the crust) is a fact confirmed by modern scientific study. Please see this related article:
    http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal..._or_the_Earth/

    Jazak Allah khair, i will check out the article as well
    so then with this, it can go both ways??

    fi aman Allah
    w'salaam



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    IB Senior Member Array azim's Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Jazakallah for the reply Ansar-al-Adl.

    I was considering using that quote in a little booklet I'm producing for dawah purposes. I was confused as to whether it would be honest to use it since almost all translators list it as 'spreading out' rather than 'egg like'. I think, with many things in the Quran, its a double meaning possibly.

    Salaam.

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    Limited Member Array freshwayz's Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Actually, its quite simple, but you have two look at the previous ayah as well in order to understand it, which you understand in context using the ayah before, and so on until you get to the start of the Surah.
    So the meaning is that Allah has set the Night of darkness and Day of light (one coming after the other). So now you understand that the earth is revolving in this pattern (spherical), we can move on.
    And the Earth after that, he caused it to spread. So now you have the sphere, only that it is no longer a "perfect" sphere shape as such, as it has been pushed outwards at the equator; the polar points coming more inwards, you have a shape which looks like an O to start with and then it is stretched at the equator points as so: <O> to give a shorter and fatter O shape. This is the shape of the earth. Modern science has come to understand this in the past century only.

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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl View Post

    In his book, The Qur'n and the Orientalists, Dr. Muhammad Mohar Ali, former Professor of the History of Islam at the Islamic University of Madinah and Al-Imm University in Riyadh, provides an extensive and detailed discussion on the Qur'anic view of the earth. Here is a relevant excerpt:
    Now, the very first expression in the series, dahh, is noticeably distinctive and different in genre from the rest. Watt, following many other previous translators, renders it as "spread out". But the exact and correct meaning of the term, keeping in view its root, rather provides a very positive Qur'anic evidence in support of the spherical shape of the earth. For dah means to "shape like an egg", its noun being dahiyah, which the Arabs still use to mean an egg. [2]
    __________________________
    [2] M. FATH 'UTHMAN, "Al-'ard F al-Qur'n al-Karm", Proceedings of the First Islamic Geographical Conference", Riyadh, 1404/1984, Vol. IV, 127; A. M. SOLIMAN, Scientific Trends in teh Qur'n, London (Ta-Ha Publications), 1985, p. 16.
    (M. Mohar Ali, The Qur'n and the Orientalists, Jam'iyat 'Ihyaa' Minhaaj Al-Sunnah 2004, p.75)
    Nevertheless, even if we do take the interpretation of 'spread out' as many other commentators and translators do, there is still no conflict with science because, as Syed Qutb points out, the idea that the earth's crust was spread out after the formation of the atmosphere (which could refer either to continental drift or actual cooling of the crust) is a fact confirmed by modern scientific study. Please see this related article:
    http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal..._or_the_Earth/

    "دحا" from "دحو" means to flatten out; it is from the old bread-making system, which is still in use by many people who live in the east or come from there. The flour is doughed up and made into a spherical shape (a ball), it is then pressed together lightly with both hands (1st press), the shape does not change into a flat paperish shape, it is just a slightly squashed sphere, so the height is about 20% less than the width. Anyway, this is where this flattening word comes from. The other description some mufassireen prefer is egg.

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    Limited Member Array freshwayz's Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by freshwayz View Post
    "دحا" from "دحو" means to flatten out; it is from the old bread-making system, which is still in use by many people who live in the east or come from there. The flour is doughed up and made into a spherical shape (a ball), it is then pressed together lightly with both hands (1st press), the shape does not change into a flat paperish shape, it is just a slightly squashed sphere, so the height is about 20% less than the width. Anyway, this is where this flattening word comes from. The other description some mufassireen prefer is egg.
    By the way, I'm not talking of the today's soft dough bread (well-ground flour), which is much easier to compress.

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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    I have seen that all these internet based muslim sites are dangerously low on Islamic knowledge, they lack even the most basic knowledge of Islam, including Quranic grammar-based knowledge and understanding, I have seen much lies against Islam including on this site. Young muslims should be extra careful; do not take what you read on these sites as knowledge. Study, and learn for yourselves. The net is full of curruption.

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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by freshwayz View Post
    I have seen that all these internet based muslim sites are dangerously low on Islamic knowledge, they lack even the most basic knowledge of Islam, including Quranic grammar-based knowledge and understanding, I have seen much lies against Islam including on this site. Young muslims should be extra careful; do not take what you read on these sites as knowledge. Study, and learn for yourselves. The net is full of curruption.
    thats true a lot of shoitan and kafirs around, trying to taky away iman! these people have tried it on me! But only Allah can protect you, No one else! I was once confused about the bee, on how it is female, i felt so confused, asked my friends, came onto this forum, where people were telling me it is not, made dua to Allah, and found the answer in a random tafsir, normally when i go to a mosque i will open a book from any page and start reading, i opened a book and found the answer! it talked about butuniha, that it is attached with a femanine!
    Allahamdullilah! Only trust in Allah! No one else, he is our protector.

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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Anyway, I hope the misconception on دحا is cleared. If not, do ask, as I don't see the use of translations doing any good in matters involving the Quran.

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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran



    Im repeating my reply with some more details as brother muhammed deleted my last one which read that most mufasireen say that it means expanse...
    brother Muhammad: Reason: It's better to provide a source for this if possible

    i hope this is ok:

    Tafseer tabri:
    لأن الدحوّ إنما هو البسط في كلام العرب، والمدّ يقال منه: دحا يدحو دَحْوا، ودَحيْتُ أدْحي دَحْيا، لغتان؛ ومنه قول أُميَّة بن أبي الصلت:
    دَارٌ دَحاها ثُمَّ أعْمَرَنا بِها... وَأقامَ بالأخْرَى الَّتِي هي أمجدُ (2) وقول أوس بن حجر في نعت غيث:
    يَنْفِي الحصَى عن جديد الأرْضِ مُبْتَرِكٌ... كأنَّه فاحِصٌ أو لاعِبٌ داحِي (1)
    وبنحو الذي قلنا في ذلك قال أهل التأويل.
    * ذكر من قال ذلك:
    حدثنا بشر، قال: ثنا يزيد، قال: ثنا سعيد، عن قتادة( وَالأرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا ) : أي بسطها .
    حدثني محمد بن خلف، قال: ثنا رَوّاد، عن أبي حمزة، عن السدي( دَحَاها ) قال: بسطها .
    حدثنا ابن بشار، قال: ثنا عبد الرحمن، قال: ثنا سفيان دَحَاها ) بسطها .

    Aysar tafaseer ( aljazairi ):
    {
    والأرض بعد ذلك دحاها } : أي بعد أن خلق الرض خلق السماء ثم دحا الأرض أي بسطها .


    Al Kashaaf ( azamakhshari) the only reason im mentioning his tafseer is that hes an imam in the arabic language even if he is mu'tazili in aqeedah:
    {
    دحاها } بسطها ومهدها للسكنى ، ثم فسر التمهيد بما لا بدّ منه في تأتي سكناها ، من تسوية أمر المأكل والمشرب؛ وإمكان القرار عليها ، والسكون بإخراج الماء والمرعى ، وإرساء الجبال وإثباتها أوتادا لها حتى تستقر ويستقر عليها


    Fath alqadeer ( ashowkani) :
    وإنما قوله : { دحاها } : بسطها .



    Zaad almaseer :

    { دحاها } أي : بسطها


    Tafseer Al Raazi ( Hes explanation is the most detailed) :
    دحاها بسطها ، قال زيد بن عمرو بن نفيل :
    دحاها فلما رآها استوت ... على الماء أرسى عليها الجبالا
    وقال أمية بن أبي الصلت :
    دحوت البلاد فسويتها ... وأنت على طيها قادر
    قال أهل اللغة في هذه اللفظة لغتان دحوت أدحو ، ودحيت أدحى ، ومثله صفوت وصفيت ولحوت العود ولحيته وسأوت الرجل وسأيته وبأوت عليه وبأيت ، وفي حديث علي عليه السلام " اللهم داحي المدحيات " أي باسط الأرضين السبع وهو المدحوات أيضاً ، وقيل : أصل الدحو الإزالة للشيء من مكان إلى مكان ، ومنه يقال : إن الصبي يدحو بالكرة أي يقذفها على وجه الأرض ، وأدحى النعامة موضعه الذي يكون فيه أي بسطته وأزلت ما فيه من حصى ، حتى يتمهد له ، وهذا يدل على أن معنى الدحو يرجع إلى الإزالة والتمهيد .


    Tafseer Al baydawi :
    { والأرض بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دحاها } بسطها ومهدها للسكنى .


    Tafseer Abu sauwd:
    { والأرض بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دحاها } أي بسطَها ومهَّدها لسكْنى أهلِها وتقلبِهم في أقطارِها وانتصابُ الأرضَ بمضمرٍ يفسرُه دحاهَا


    And finally the best detail and explanation of the word 'Daha' by the late Shaykh Ashanqeeti r.h.:
    وقال القرطبي : دحاها أي بسطها .
    والعرب تقول : دحا الشيء إذا بسطه .
    وقال أبو حيان : دحاها بسطها ومهدها للسكنى والاستقرار عليها : ثمَّ فسر ذلك التمهيد بما لا بد منه من غخراج الماء والمرعى ، وإرسائها بالجبال .
    ومما ذكر يتأتَّى السكنى والمعيشة حتى الملح والمأكل والمشرب ، وهذا هو كلام الزمخشري بعينه .
    وقال الفخر الرازي : دحاها بسطها ، فترى أن جميع المفسرين تقريباً متفقون على أن دحاها بمعنى بسطها .
    وقول ابن جرير وابن كثير : إن دحاها فسر بما بعده لا يتعارض مع البسط والتمهيد ، كما قال ابو حيان : إنه ذكر لوازم التسكن إلى المعيشة عليها من إخراج مائها ومرعاها لان بهما قوام الحياة .
    ومما يستأنس به أن الدحو معروف بمعنى البسط ، قول ابن الرومي :
    ما أنس لا أنس خبازاً مررت به ... يدحو الرقَاقة وشك اللمح بالبصر
    ما بين رُؤيتها في كفه كرة ... وبين رؤيتها قوراء كالقمر
    إلا بمقدار ما تنداح دَائرة ... في صفحة المَاء ترمي فيه بالحجر
    وقد أثير حول هذه الآية مبحث شكل الأرض أمبسوطة هي أم كروية مستديرة؟
    وإذا رجعنا إلى أمهات كتب اللغة نجد الآتي :
    أولاً : في مفردات الراغب : قال دحاها ، أزالها من موضعها ومقرها .
    ومنه قولهم : دحا المطر الحصى من وجه الأرض أي جرفها ، ومر الفرس يدحو دحواً : إذا جر يده على وجه الأرض فيدحوا ترابها .
    ومنه أدحى النعام ، وقال : الطحو كالدحو ، وهو بسط الشيء والذهاب به والأرض ما طحاها ، وأنشد قول الشاعر :
    طحا بك قلب في الحسان طروب
    أي ذهب بك .
    وفي معجم مقاييس اللغة ، مادة دحو : الدال والحاء والواو أصل واحد يدل على بسط وتمهيد .
    يقال : دحى الله الأرض يدحوها دحواً إذا بسطها .
    ويقال : دحا المطر : الحصا عن وجه الأرض ، وهذا لأنه إذا كان كذلك فقد مهد الأرض .
    ويقال للفرس ، إذا رمى بيده رمياً لا يرفع سنبكه عن الأرض كثيراً : مر يدحو دحواً ، ومن الباب أدحى النعام الموضع الذي يفرخ فيه أفعول من دحوت ، لأنه يدحوه برجله ثم يبيض فيه ، وليس للنعامة عش .
    وفي لسان العرب مادة دحا ، والدحو : البسط ، دحى الارض يدحوها دحواً : بسطها .
    وقال الفراء في قوله عز وجل : { والأرض بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا } ، قال بسطها ، وذكر الأدحى مبيض النعام في الرمل ، لأنَّ النعامة تدحوه برجلها ، ثم تبيض فيه . وذكر حديث ابن عمر : فدحا السيل فيه بالبطحاء ، أي رمى وألقى .
    قال : وسئل ابن المسيب عن الدحو بالحجارة ، فقالك لا بأس به ، أي المراماة بها والمسابقة .
    وعن ابن الأعرابي : هو يدحو بالحجر ، أي يرمي به ويدفعه ، والداحي : الذي يدحو الحجر بيده ، وأنشد لأوس بن حجر بمعنى ينزع قوله :
    ينْزع جلد الحصا أحسين مبترك ... كأنه فاحص أو لاعب دَاح؟
    وفي حديث أبي رافع : كنت ألاعب الحسن والحسين رضوان الله عليهما بالمداحي ، هي أحجار أمثال القرصة ، كانوا يحفرون حفرة يدحون فيها بتلك الحجارة ، فإذا وقع الحجر فيها غلب صاحبها ، وإن لم يقع غلب .
    والدحو : هو رمي اللاعب بالحجر والجوز وغيره اه .
    وما ذكره صاحب اللسان عن أبي رافع لا زال موجوداً حتى الآن بالمدينة ، ويسمى الدحل باللام ، كما وصف تماماً .
    وبعد إيراد أقوال أصول مراجع اللغة ، وما قدم من أقوال المفسرين . فإنَّنا نواجه الجدل القائم بين بعض علماء الهيئة ، وبعض العلماء الآخرين ، في موضوع شكل الأرض ، ولعلّنا نوفق بفضل من الله إلى بيان الحقيقة في ذلك ، حتى لا يظن ظانّ تعارض القرآن ، وما يثبت من علوم الهيئة أو يغتر جاهل بما يقال في الإسلام .
    وبتأمل قول المفسرين نجدها متفقة في مجموعها : بأن دحاها مهدها وسهل الحياة عليها ، وذكر لوازم التمكين من الحياة عليها من إخراج الماء ، والمرعى ، ووضع الجبال ، وهو المتفق مع نصوص القرآن في قوله : { أَلَمْ نَجْعَلِ الأرض مِهَاداً والجبال أَوْتَاداً } [ النبأ : 6 - 7 ] .
    وقوله : { هُوَ الذي جَعَلَ لَكُمُ الأرض ذَلُولاً فامشوا فِي مَنَاكِبِهَا وَكُلُواْ مِن رِّزْقِهِ } [ الملك : 15 ] .
    وكل ذلك من باب واحد ، وهو تمهيدها والتَّمكين للعيش عليها ، وليس فيه معنى التَّكوير والاستدارة .
    وإذا جئنا إلى كتب اللغة نجدها كلها ، تنص على أن الدحو : البسط ، والرمي ، والأزالة ، والتمهيد ، فالبسط والتمهيد والرمي بالحجر المستدير في الحفرة الصغيرة معانٍ مشتركة؟ وكلَّها تفسر دحاها ، بمعنى بسطها ومهدها . وأن الأدحية مبيض النعام لا بيضه ، كما يقولون وسمي بذلك لأنها تدحوه بيدها لتبيض فيه ، إذ لا عش لها .
    وعليه ، فلا دليل من كتب اللغة على ان الدحو هو التكوير ، ولكن ما قول العلماء في شكل الأرض ، بصرف النظر عن كون القرآن تعرض له أو لم يتعرض؟
    إذا رجعنا غلى كلام من نظر في علم الهيئة من المسلمين ، فإنا نجدهم متفقين على أن شكل الأرض مستدير .
    وقيل إيراد شيء من أقوالهم ننبه على أنه لا علاقة لهذا البحث بموضوع الحركة ، سواء للأرض أو غيرها ، فذاك بحث مستقل ، ليس هذا محله ، وإنما البحث في الشكل .
    أما أقوال العلماء في شكل الأرض ، فإن أجمع ما وقفت عليه ، وأصرح وأبين ، هو كلام شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية رحمه الله في رسالة الهلال ، جاء فيها : قال في موضع منها قوله ، وقد ثبت بالكتاب والسنة والإجماع من علماء الأمة ، أن الأفلاك مستديرة ، قال تعالى :{ وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ الليل والنهار والشمس والقمر } [ فصلت : 37 ] وقال : { وَهُوَ الذي خَلَقَ الليل والنهار والشمس والقمر كُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ } [ الأنبياء : 33 ] وقال تعالى : { لاَ الشمس يَنبَغِي لَهَآ أَن تدْرِكَ القمر وَلاَ الليل سَابِقُ النهار وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ } [ يس : 40 ] .
    قال ابن عباس : في فلكة مثل فلكة المغزل . وهكذا هو في لسان العرب : الفلك الشيء المستدير . ومنه يقال : تفلك ثدي الجارية إذا استدار . قال تعالى : { يُكَوِّرُ الليل عَلَى النهار وَيُكَوِّرُ النهار عَلَى الليل } [ الزمر : 5 ] ، والتَّكوير هو التدوير . ومنه قيل : كار العمامة وكورها ، ولهذا يقال للأفلاك : كروية الشكل . لأن أصل الكرة كورة تحركة الواو وانفتح ما قبلها فقلبت ألفاً .
    وقال : { الشمس والقمر بِحُسْبَانٍ } [ الرحمن : 5 ] مثل حسبان الرحى ، وقال : { مَّا ترى فِي خَلْقِ الرحمن مِن تَفَاوُتِ } [ الملك : 3 ] وهذا إنما يكون فيما يستدير من أشكال الأجسام دون المضلعات من المثلث أو المربع أو غيرهما ، فإنه يتفاوت لأأن زواياه مخالفة لقوائمه .
    والجسم المستدير متشابه الجوانب والنواحي ، ليس بعضه مخالفاً لبعض .
    وجاء فيه قوله أيضاً : وقال الإمام او بالحسين أحمد بن جعفر بن المنادي ، من أعيان العلماء المشهورين بمعرفة الآثار والتصانيف الكبار ، في متون العلوم الدينية من البطقة الثانية من أصحاب أحمد : لا خلاف بين العلماء أن السماء على مثال الكرة ، وأنها تدور بجميع ما فيها من الكواكب ، كدورة الكرة على قطبين ثابتين غير متحركين ، أحدهما في الشمال ، والآخر في ناحية الجنوب .
    قال : ويدل على ذلك أن الكاوكب جميعها تدور من المشرق تقع قليلاً على ترتيب واحد في حركتها ومقادير أجزائها ، إلى أن تتوسط السماء ، ثم تنحدر على ذلك الترتيب ، فكأنها ثابتة في كرة تديرها جميعها دوراً واحداً .
    هذه نبذة من أقوال علماء المسلمين في شكل الأفلاك ، ثم قال : وهذا محل القصد بالذات ، وكذلك أجمعوا على أن الأرض بجميع حركاتها من البر والبحر مثل الكرة .
    قال : ويدل عليه أن الشمس والقمر والكواكب ، لا يوجد طلوعها وغروبها على جميع من في نواحي الأرض في وقت واحد ، بل على المشرق قبل المغرب .
    قال : فكرة الأرض مثبتة في وسط كرة السماء ، كالنقطة في الدائرة ، يدل على ذلك أن جرم كل كوكب يرى في جميع نواحي السماء ، على قدر واحد ، فيدل ذلك على بعد ما بين السماء والأرض من جميع الجهات بقدر واحد ، فاضطرار أن تكون الأرض وسط السماء اه . بلفظه .
    فهذا نقل لإجماع الأمة ، من إمام جليل في علمي المعقول والمنقول ، على أن الأرض على شكل الكرة ، وقد ساق الأدلة الاضطرارية من حركة الأفلاك على ذلك .
    ومن جهة العقل أيضاً يقال : إن أكمل الأجرام هو المستدير كما قال في قوله : { مَّا ترى فِي خَلْقِ الرحمن مِن تَفَاوُتِ } [ الملك : 3 ] .
    وعليه ، فلو قدر لسائر على وجه الأرض ، وافترضنا الأرض مسطحة كسطح البيت أو القرطاس مثلاً ، لكان لهذا السائر من نهاية ينتهي إليها ، وهي منتهى التسطيح أو يسقط في هاوية ، وباعتبارها كرة ، فإنه يكمل دورته ، ويكررها ولو سار طيلة عمره لما كان لمسيره منتهى ، لأنه يدور على سطحها من جميع جهاتها . والعلم عند الله تعالى .
    تنبيه
    كان من الممكن أن نقدم هذه النتيجة من أول الأمر ما دامت متفقة في النهاية مع قول علماء الهيئة . ولا نطيل النقول من هنا وهناك ، ولكن قد سقنا ذلك كله لغرض أعم من هذا كله ، وقضية أشمل وهي من جهتين :
    أولاهما : أن علماء المسلمين مدركون ما قال به علماء الهيئة ، ولكن لا من طريق النقل أو دلالة خاصة على هذه الجزئية من القرآن ، ولكن عن طريق النظر ، والاستدلال ، إذ علماء المسلمين لم يجهلوا هذه النظرية ، ولم تخف عليهم هذه الحقيقة .
    ثانيتهما : مع علمهم بهذه الحقيقة وإدراكهم لهذه النظرية ، لم يعز واحد منهم دلالتها لنصوص الكتاب أو السنة .
    وبناء عليه نقول : إذا لم تكن النصوص صريحة في نظرية من النظريات الحديثة ، لا ينبغي أن نقحمها في مباحثها نفياً أو إثباتاً ، وإنما نتطلب العلم من طريقه ، فعلوم الهيئة من النظر الاستدلال ، وعلوم الطب من التجارب والاستقراء ، وهكذا يبقى القرآن مصاناً عن مجال الجدل في نظرية قابلة للثبوت والنفي ، أو التغيير والتبديل ، كما لا ينبغي لمن لم يعلم حقيقة أمر في فنه أن يبادر بإنكارها ما لم تكن مصادمة لنص صريح .
    وعليه أن يثبت أولاً وقد نبهنا سابقاً على ذلك في مثل ذلك في قصة نبي الله سليمان مع بلقيس والهدهد حينما جاءه ، فقال : { أَحَطتُ بِمَا لَمْ تُحِطْ بِهِ وَجِئْتُكَ مِن سَبَإٍ بِنَبَإٍ يَقِينٍ } [ النمل : 22 ] وقصَّ عليه خبرها مع قومها ، فلم يبادر عليه السلام بالإنكار . لكون الآتي بالخبر هدهداً ، ولم يكن عنده علم به ولم يسارع أيضاً بتصديقه ، لأنه ليس لديه مستند عليه ، بل أخذ في طريق التثبت بواسطة الطريق الذي جاء الخبر به قال : { سَنَنظُرُ أَصَدَقْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الكاذبين } [ النمل : 27 ] ، وأرسله بالكتاب إليهم ، فإذا كان هذا من نبي الله سليمان ولديه وسائل وإمكانيات كما تعلم . فغيره من باب أولى .
    تنبيه آخر
    إذا كان علماء الإسلام يثبتون كروية الأرض ، فماذا يقولون في قوله تعالى : { أَفَلاَ يَنظُرُونَ إِلَى الإبل كَيْفَ خُلِقَتْ } [ الغاشية : 17 ] - إلى قوله - { وَإِلَى الأرض كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ } [ الغاشية : 20 ] . وجوابهم كجوابهم على قوله تعالى : { حتى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشمس وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ } [ الكهف : 86 ] ، أي في نظر العين ، لأن الشمس تغرب عن أمة ، وتستمر في الأفق على أمة أخرى ، حتى تأتي مطعلها من الشرق في صبحة اليوم الثاني ، ويكون بسط الأرض وتمهيدها ، نظراً لكل إقليم وجزء منها لسعتها وعظيم جرمها .
    وهذا لا يتنافى مع حقيقة شكلها ، فقد نرى الجبل الشاهق ، وإذا تسلقناه ووصلنا قمته وجدنا سطحاً مستوياً ، ووجدنا أمة بكامل لوازمها ، وقد لا يعلم بعض من فيه عن بقية العالم ، وهكذا ، والله تعالى أعلم .


    I hope u can understand arabic!!!
    Now i think those who say that Dahaha is evidence for the earth being round.
    ( by the way i dont mean to be rude but i think other people say things which shouldnt be posted but still are and remain there )
    remember me in ur duas

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    Limited Member Array corner's Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by azim View Post
    Salamu alaykum.

    In this verse, I've heard it translated both as 'made the earth a wide expense' and 'made the earth egg-shaped'. Could an arab speaker please explain whether dahaahaa actually means egg?
    It doesnt mean egg my brother, neither does it mean flat..

    Lane's classical Arabic dictionary (Which is one of the BEST on the earth) doesnt say that it means egg shaped, nor does any other dictionary, as far as I know!

    Lane's dictionary gives a couple of explanaions and those are:

    "To hurl, spread forth, expand, stretch out, cast away, extend, drive along. "

    Now, these are the basic meanings, but if you want to go much into detail, then you will even find the word "Round like a toy the kids played with" and so on, but this is to go too far!

    Visit: http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexico...3/00000023.pdf
    For a total explanation if you will!

    The word Daha is when the bird makes the ground spread to make it comfortable for its baby, the same as Allah did with our ground, he made it comfortable for us, it does not mean that he made it flat because this verse is talking about the GROUND (Ard) can mean Ground / or earth!

    Allah was clearly talking about the ground (Wa Allahu Alam) and how he spread it for us, I.e. made it comfortable and spread the continents and made the earth bigger (I.e. expanded it to a larger size)... The word "Flat" in Arabic is not Dahaha nor any other word in the Qur'an is "Flat" like the missionLIARS want to make it look like!

    See this video for an AWESOME explanation for this verse:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Tyb...e=channel_page

    May Allah bless you, ameen!

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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    edit
    Last edited by doorster; 02-22-2009 at 12:38 AM. Reason: fear

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    Limited Member Array salamfromrom's Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Salam a leikum


    A brother explained this verse to me in the following way:


    "The Quran is employing imagery OF A TENT in this verse. The earth is described as being spread out like a carpet, i.e. made comfortable for living. Entering into a beduoin tent, one would come across beautiful carpets that covered the ground and made sitting comfortable. The heavens being 'raised above the earth' is another imagery employed, i.e. the heavens are the roof of the tent that provide shade from the harsh environment. The Quran in other verses, also speak about the mountains as pegs providing stability to the arth. The mountains are also playing off the imagery of the pegs of a tent which stabilize the foundation of the tent. The Holy Book is playing off the psychology of the Arabs and their concept of chivalry. Welcoming guests and providing them comfort as well as a place of rest for their journey was something looked highly upon. The tent he is currently staying in, God is the owner of it and God is the best at being chivalrous. Men have been provided, and are being provided with what the best the earth has to offer. God has spread out the carpets for men to rest, and has provided them with delicious fruits to eat. God has provided them shelter from the harsh sun, as well as given them a comfortable place to sleep and regain their energy.

    This imagery takes us conceptually to the concept of temporality of the world. Man is on a journey in this life. Just as a tent is one day folded up and men leave their temporary home, the heavens and earth will be folded up and man will proceed on the next journery of their life. The Quran often speaks about the heavens and earth folding up as well.

    One of the interesting aspects of these type of verses, as Neal Robinson points out, is the sound of the recitation. The building of this tent sounds like the banging of a hammer when reciting it.

    The Quran is NOT a scientific textbook. And interpreting verses in light of science distorts the message, as well as the literary master-piece that is the Quran. Grand literature often eploys styles which are totally in an opposite world from the styles of a technical book."

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    Limited Member Array corner's Avatar
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    Default Re: 79:30 Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by salamfromrom View Post
    Salam a leikum


    A brother explained this verse to me in the following way:





    "The Quran is employing imagery OF A TENT in this verse. The earth is described as being spread out like a carpet, i.e. made comfortable for living. Entering into a beduoin tent, one would come across beautiful carpets that covered the ground and made sitting comfortable.

    Yes, the heaven is like a roof, it protects us from Sun rays and all kinds of stuff!

    And yes, the earth (GROUND) is like a capet,

    And like a couch:
    [Yusuf Ali 002:022] Who has made the earth your couch,
    And like a Bed:
    [Sher Ali 002:022] WHO made the earth a bed for you,
    Like a Craddle:
    [Munir Munshey 078:006] Have We not laid out the earth as a cradle?

    But what you have to realise is that these verses do NOT speak about the shape of the earth, this is obvious since the earth does not look like a couch, if it would, it would be visible even from the earth! These verses speak about the FUNCTION, the earth is LIKE a bed for us, LIKE a couch, LIKE a cradle, it is comfortable, YOU are just like a child on it (I.e the child on the cradle) and you do not have to make your own food, contrary Allah grows it for you, and so on... (See what early scholars said about these verses, they agree with me, see Ibn KAthir Tafseer, Al Qurtubi, Ibn Abbas, Al Jalalayn, and so on)

    "The heavens being 'raised above the earth' is another imagery employed, i.e. the heavens are the roof of the tent that provide shade from the harsh environment."

    Very nice :-)

    "The Quran in other verses, also speak about the mountains as pegs providing stability to the arth. The mountains are also playing off the imagery of the pegs of a tent which stabilize the foundation of the tent."

    See these links for scientific explanations for this, its actually amazing how accurate the Qur'an is regarding this!:

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/reason_4.wmv
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/mountains.htm

    "The Holy Book is playing off the psychology of the Arabs and their concept of chivalry. Welcoming guests and providing them comfort as well as a place of rest for their journey was something looked highly upon."

    Im not sure what the brother is talking about :S

    "The tent he is currently staying in, God is the owner of it and God is the best at being chivalrous. Men have been provided, and are being provided with what the best the earth has to offer. God has spread out the carpets for men to rest, and has provided them with delicious fruits to eat. God has provided them shelter from the harsh sun, as well as given them a comfortable place to sleep and regain their energy."

    Exactly, its talking about the function of the heaven and earth, not the actual shapes, and the word "Tent" is not used in the Qur'an for the heaven, the word "Roof"(Another meaning would be "Canopy") To explain how it functions, not how it looks like, its a protection!

    "This imagery takes us conceptually to the concept of temporality of the world. Man is on a journey in this life. Just as a tent is one day folded up and men leave their temporary home, the heavens and earth will be folded up and man will proceed on the next journery of their life. The Quran often speaks about the heavens and earth folding up as well."

    [039:067] They can never fathom the greatness of GOD. The whole earth is within His fist on the Day of Resurrection. In fact, the universes are folded within His right hand.

    The Qur'an doesnt say that the earth will be folded! But the heaven will be, this is also called "The Big crunch"!

    As for the earth being folded, this is found in a Authentic Hadith, this doesnt mean that the earth is flat at the present time because Allah said that he will first make the earth flat:

    [084:003] "And when the earth is flattened out (On the judgement day).."

    so Allah will first make it FLAT, and THEN folded up!!!!

    I see no problems :-)

    "One of the interesting aspects of these type of verses, as Neal Robinson points out, is the sound of the recitation. The building of this tent sounds like the banging of a hammer when reciting it."

    Yeah the recitation is beautiful indeed, but the Arabic text is a miracle!

    "The Quran is NOT a scientific textbook. And interpreting verses in light of science distorts the message, as well as the literary master-piece that is the Quran."

    Yeah some people may take the Qur'an TOOOO Scientifically, thats not good because Allah also said that he gave us many metaphors:

    [Holy Qur'an 3:007] He it is who hath sent down to thee the Book. Some of its verses are of themselves perspicuous; - these are the basis of the Book - and others are figurative. But they whose hearts are given to err, follow its figures, craving discord, craving an interpretation; yet none knoweth its interpretation but God. And the stable in knowledge say, "We believe in it: it is all from our Lord." But none will bear this in mind, save men endued with understanding.

    So the brother is right, we should not take the entire Qur'an as a science book, there are verses that are figurative, metaphorical, open for interpretation! For example the metaphores I gave you:

    And like a couch:
    [Yusuf Ali 002:022] Who has made the earth your couch,
    And like a Bed:
    [Sher Ali 002:022] WHO made the earth a bed for you,
    Like a Craddle:
    [Munir Munshey 078:006] Have We not laid out the earth as a cradle?


    "Grand literature often eploys styles which are totally in an opposite world from the styles of a technical book."

    Actually, not the Qur'an, the Qur'an explains science very good, but you have to know which verses are to be taken Literally and which are not, and those whom you should take as metaphors are actually clear, only those who look for errors will stop and say "HEY, THE QUR'AN SAYS THE EARTH LOOKS LIKE A COUCH" while it is pretty clear that Allah is giving us a metaphor since even a bedouin Arab can figure out that the earth doesnt LOOK like a couch since it doesnt have a chair back (Or Couch back) where you rest your back!

    For Qur'anic science in depth please visit www.55a.net/ and click "English"

    I hope I helped, anything good is from ALlah, the bad is from Shaytan!

    Salamu Alaikum my dear brother in Islam

    P.S Please stay away from Anti Islamic sites (Even if you're not visiting them, its simply Haram to visit if you dont have good knowledge about Islam)

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