An extract from Tafsir Ibn Kathir of Surah 88 Al-Ghashiyah - Page 3

Muslim Knight · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

I understand what is meant by Eesa. If we read in seerah, the Prophet's own uncle whom he loved, Abu Talib, remained in his religion even to the last breath. This is remembered as the Year of Sadness.

You can imagine what Nabi feels when someone dear to him died in state of shirk. Sadness is allowed, but Allah reminded him that he's just a warner, and that faith is something that is entirely in Allah's control.

As a da'ie, I also feel sad when I couldn't get my non-Muslim friends convinced enough to convert to Islam. Some of them would make very good Muslims. But I understand that I cannot put faith in their hearts, I can only be a factor in multitudes of other factors. I must put trust in Allah's wisdom, and that He knows what I don't know. What has happened, must have happened for the best.

snakelegs · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by glo

Hi snakelegs
I think what's difficult for you as an agnostic to understand, is that for Christians (and Muslims for that matter) the afterlife is ultimately more important. Yes, this earthly life is wonderful and worth cherishing and being grateful for ... but ultimately it is the afterlife, the eternity in or out of God's presence, which matters more.
Peace

glo - you hit on it exactly. it is very difficult to grasp this concept and to really understand the enormous importance the afterlife has for those who believe in it.
probably people who don't believe in it are just as incomprehensible to those that do.

snakelegs · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaikah

I agree with Glo. Islamic history is full of Muslims who knew the risks but didn't give up because of it. People would actually announce themselves to be Muslims in public in the early days of Islam in a majority non-muslim society who hated the Muslims. As soon as they made the announcement, the non-Muslims around them would gang-up on them and bash them up to an inch from death, but to many of them it was worth it.

And then you have the companions who would go out to war wanting death, and someone of them would even return to their familes alive and their familes would be disappointed that they didnt die in the war, because they know that the reward for the martyr is great.

you and glo are right. i can not understand this.

snakelegs · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

eesa,
i'm sorry for de-railing your thread.
you are a very special person, very compassionate.
god bless you.

chris4336 · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Eesa I think it's extremely sad. I don't know if this will make much sense, but it seems like a big part of being a Muslim is the idea that those not on the straight path will be punished. Well maybe not a big part but you know what I mean. Because it's kind of like why bother even practicing the religion if you are not going to be punished/rewarded in the hereafter? So you kind of have to believe that your family is going to be punished. This is so sad it brings tears to my eyes.

I also believed for awhile that those who did not understand Islam and therefore did not accept it would be forgiven by God on the last day. I'm not so sure if that is truely a teaching of Islam, but surely a teaching of Islam is that God is the most perfect judge.

I know I should be worrying about my own salvation, but I guess we all are guilty of thinking about our families too much sometimes because we love them. I'm scared for me, but also really scared for them. So to answer your question yes its sad, I think its really really sad and hard, and something that I know I personally cannot stand to think about too much.

chris4336 · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Okay just want to add this that that saddest part of all is that those in my family are truly worshipping God the best way they know how. Do you know what I mean? They are honestly doing the best they can, and its so sad to think they might be punished for this.

Malaikah · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4336

I also believed for awhile that those who did not understand Islam and therefore did not accept it would be forgiven by God on the last day. I'm not so sure if that is truely a teaching of Islam, but surely a teaching of Islam is that God is the most perfect judge.

Hi Chris,

You can find some answers to this here: http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...onmuslims.html

**Al Habeshi** · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4336

I also believed for awhile that those who did not understand Islam and therefore did not accept it would be forgiven by God on the last day. I'm not so sure if that is truely a teaching of Islam, but surely a teaching of Islam is that God is the most perfect judge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4336

Okay just want to add this that that saddest part of all is that those in my family are truly worshipping God the best way they know how. Do you know what I mean? They are honestly doing the best they can, and its so sad to think they might be punished for this.

The main question I am understanding is, will Allah punish those who were sincere?

The answer from what I understand is that all that will be in hell will have had messengers and known about those messengers:

067.008
SHAKIR: Almost bursting for fury. Whenever a group is cast into it, its keeper shall ask them: Did there not come to you a warner?

067.009
SHAKIR: They shall say: Yea! indeed there came to us a warner, but we rejected (him) and said: Allah has not revealed anything, you are only in a great error.

035.037
SHAKIR: And they shall cry therein for succour: O our Lord ! take us out, we will do good deeds other than those which we used to do. Did We not preserve you alive long enough, so that he who would be mindful in it should mind? And there came to you the warner; therefore taste; because for the unjust, there is no helper.

I have heard other hadeeth too, but this kind of shows that noone will go into the fire unless a Prophet or Messenger is given to them and they rejected him, Islam should also have been presented properly.

**Al Habeshi** · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakelegs

eesa,
i'm sorry for de-railing your thread.

Ameen to your dua and no worries its producing nice discussion so am happy.

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Some more verses to contemplate....

قُلْ يَا عِبَادِيَ الَّذِينَ أَسْرَفُوا عَلَى أَنفُسِهِمْ لَا تَقْنَطُوا مِن رَّحْمَةِ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ جَمِيعاً إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ
وَأَنِيبُوا إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ وَأَسْلِمُوا لَهُ مِن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ الْعَذَابُ ثُمَّ لَا تُنصَرُونَ
وَاتَّبِعُوا أَحْسَنَ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُم مِّن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ العَذَابُ بَغْتَةً وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَشْعُرُونَ
أَن تَقُولَ نَفْسٌ يَا حَسْرَتَى علَى مَا فَرَّطتُ فِي جَنبِ اللَّهِ وَإِن كُنتُ لَمِنَ السَّاخِرِينَ
أَوْ تَقُولَ لَوْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ هَدَانِي لَكُنتُ مِنَ الْمُتَّقِينَ
أَوْ تَقُولَ حِينَ تَرَى الْعَذَابَ لَوْ أَنَّ لِي كَرَّةً فَأَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ
بَلَى قَدْ جَاءتْكَ آيَاتِي فَكَذَّبْتَ بِهَا وَاسْتَكْبَرْتَ وَكُنتَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ

{ Say: O My servants who have sinned against themselves, never despair of God's mercy. Behold, God forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful. And turn in repentance to your Lord and submit to Him before there comes upon you a punishment, for then there will be none to help you. And follow the best of God's revelations to you (the Qur'an) before there comes upon you a sudden punishment while you percieve it not.

Lest any soul should say, "Alas! I neglected my duty towards God and I was of those who scoffed at the revelations." Or lest he should say, "If only God had granted me guidance, I would surely have been amongst the righteous." Or lest he might say upon seeing the punishment, "If only I had just one more chance so that I could be among those who do good!"

But certainly, there came to you my revelations, but you denied them and were arrogant, and became amongst the disbelievers. }

(Qur'ân 39:53-59)

O Allah, do not make us amongst those who turn away from your revelations and are overwhelmed with regret on the Day of Judgement!

north_malaysian · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaikah

Hi Glo,

This is how the Prophet Muhammad pbuh explained it. He meant, compared to the believers home in paradise, this world is like hell (EDIT- he might have said a prison rather then hell, but same concept) , becasue they will love paradise soooo much more. However for the non-believer, this world is a paradise for him compared to the torment of the hell-fire.

This is what I meant...

**Al Habeshi** · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by north_malaysian

This is what I meant...

Yes, I think it is prison.

I don't see how this earth could be like hell, and never seen that hadeth.

glo · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Given that life is a God-given gift to us all, and he has provided us with physical bodies and five senses to experience this world, how much allowance does Islam make for 'physical enjoyment'?

Having to view life as a prison or even hell doesn't seem to do justice to God's precious gift!
I would say that life is wonderful - and it even gets better in the afterlife!

Peace

- Qatada - · **Re: Crying At Christians -** 12-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by glo

Given that life is a God-given gift to us all, and he has provided us with physical bodies and five senses to experience this world, how much allowance does Islam make for 'physical enjoyment'?

Having to view life as a prison or even hell doesn't seem to do justice to God's precious gift!
I would say that life is wonderful - and it even gets better in the afterlife!

Peace

Allaah has allowed us to dwell in this life and has created for us many things to enjoy, such as wealth, spouses, children etc. He has created all of this so we can reflect upon them, and also so we can enjoy them for a temporary amount of time. He has forbidden us from certain things which will be harmful to us, and/or also harmful to others.

We have a right to enjoy these blessings, but one shouldn't get too attatched to them because the person may prefer these over the life of the hereafter, which may lead them to give up their faith/salvation in order to get the temporary joys of this world.

The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said:

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Muslim Knight Protect the Muslims Status: Offline Posts: 1,940 Reputation: 8791 Rep Power: 30 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Crying At Christians - 12-08-2006 I understand what is meant by Eesa. If we read in seerah, the Prophet's own uncle whom he loved, Abu Talib, remained in his religion even to the last breath. This is remembered as the Year of Sadness. You can imagine what Nabi feels when someone dear to him died in state of shirk. Sadness is allowed, but Allah reminded him that he's just a warner, and that faith is something that is entirely in Allah's control. As a da'ie, I also feel sad when I couldn't get my non-Muslim friends convinced enough to convert to Islam. Some of them would make very good Muslims. But I understand that I cannot put faith in their hearts, I can only be a factor in multitudes of other factors. I must put trust in Allah's wisdom, and that He knows what I don't know. What has happened, must have happened for the best. __________________ -------------------------------------------------- If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal and if they can't stop you, you become something else entirely; A Legend

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snakelegs nusrat fanatic Status: Offline Posts: 6,243 Reputation: 28381 Rep Power: 59 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: California Way of Life: Agnostic	Re: Crying At Christians - 12-08-2006 eesa, i'm sorry for de-railing your thread. you are a very special person, very compassionate. god bless you. __________________ each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles question authority

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chris4336 LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 192 Reputation: 653 Rep Power: 13 Join Date: Nov 2006 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Crying At Christians - 12-08-2006 Eesa I think it's extremely sad. I don't know if this will make much sense, but it seems like a big part of being a Muslim is the idea that those not on the straight path will be punished. Well maybe not a big part but you know what I mean. Because it's kind of like why bother even practicing the religion if you are not going to be punished/rewarded in the hereafter? So you kind of have to believe that your family is going to be punished. This is so sad it brings tears to my eyes. I also believed for awhile that those who did not understand Islam and therefore did not accept it would be forgiven by God on the last day. I'm not so sure if that is truely a teaching of Islam, but surely a teaching of Islam is that God is the most perfect judge. I know I should be worrying about my own salvation, but I guess we all are guilty of thinking about our families too much sometimes because we love them. I'm scared for me, but also really scared for them. So to answer your question yes its sad, I think its really really sad and hard, and something that I know I personally cannot stand to think about too much.

	(#36 (permalink))
chris4336 LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 192 Reputation: 653 Rep Power: 13 Join Date: Nov 2006 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Crying At Christians - 12-08-2006 Okay just want to add this that that saddest part of all is that those in my family are truly worshipping God the best way they know how. Do you know what I mean? They are honestly doing the best they can, and its so sad to think they might be punished for this.

	(#40 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Crying At Christians - 12-08-2006 Some more verses to contemplate.... قُلْ يَا عِبَادِيَ الَّذِينَ أَسْرَفُوا عَلَى أَنفُسِهِمْ لَا تَقْنَطُوا مِن رَّحْمَةِ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ جَمِيعاً إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ وَأَنِيبُوا إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ وَأَسْلِمُوا لَهُ مِن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ الْعَذَابُ ثُمَّ لَا تُنصَرُونَ وَاتَّبِعُوا أَحْسَنَ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُم مِّن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ العَذَابُ بَغْتَةً وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَشْعُرُونَ أَن تَقُولَ نَفْسٌ يَا حَسْرَتَى علَى مَا فَرَّطتُ فِي جَنبِ اللَّهِ وَإِن كُنتُ لَمِنَ السَّاخِرِينَ أَوْ تَقُولَ لَوْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ هَدَانِي لَكُنتُ مِنَ الْمُتَّقِينَ أَوْ تَقُولَ حِينَ تَرَى الْعَذَابَ لَوْ أَنَّ لِي كَرَّةً فَأَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ بَلَى قَدْ جَاءتْكَ آيَاتِي فَكَذَّبْتَ بِهَا وَاسْتَكْبَرْتَ وَكُنتَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ { Say: O My servants who have sinned against themselves, never despair of God's mercy. Behold, God forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful. And turn in repentance to your Lord and submit to Him before there comes upon you a punishment, for then there will be none to help you. And follow the best of God's revelations to you (the Qur'an) before there comes upon you a sudden punishment while you percieve it not. Lest any soul should say, "Alas! I neglected my duty towards God and I was of those who scoffed at the revelations." Or lest he should say, "If only God had granted me guidance, I would surely have been amongst the righteous." Or lest he might say upon seeing the punishment, "If only I had just one more chance so that I could be among those who do good!" But certainly, there came to you my revelations, but you denied them and were arrogant, and became amongst the disbelievers. } (Qur'ân 39:53-59) O Allah, do not make us amongst those who turn away from your revelations and are overwhelmed with regret on the Day of Judgement! __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

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glo Hier stehe ich. Status: Offline Posts: 3,993 Reputation: 17172 Rep Power: 40 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Gender: Way of Life: Christian	Re: Crying At Christians - 12-08-2006 Given that life is a God-given gift to us all, and he has provided us with physical bodies and five senses to experience this world, how much allowance does Islam make for 'physical enjoyment'? Having to view life as a prison or even hell doesn't seem to do justice to God's precious gift! I would say that life is wonderful - and it even gets better in the afterlife! Peace __________________ glo "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference."