Abrogations

Aziz · **Abrogations -** 07-03-2005

Discuss about them and when and why they took place.

al faqeer · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-03-2005

Abrogation of what exactly akhi ??

Osman · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-03-2005

I think he is referring to the theory of abrogation whereby certain earlier verses of the Qur'an were abrogated by later ones.

aleefwaw · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-03-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osman

I think he is referring to the theory of abrogation whereby certain earlier verses of the Qur'an were abrogated by later ones.

It is true, and those verses still give great deal of meaning especially when trying to understand true Islamic History . . . And some other issues . . .

Aziz · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-03-2005

yes I was talking about them in the Quran.Can you people please help?

Osman · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-03-2005

Some people are of the view that the Qur'an contradicts itself but this is not true.

First of all though, here is a verse from the holy Qur'an:

مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللّهَ عَلَىَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

(002:106)
Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?

If we consider the word آيَةٍ in this verse to refer to the verses of the Qur'an (rather than previous revelations) then this signifies that certain earlier verses of the Qur'an were exchanged for ones that were revealed later.

This does not mean that the earlier verses of the Qur'an become void. That is not true.

Examples of 'abrogation' are the challenges to reproduce the likes of the Qur'an and the prohibition of intoxicants.

Despite the abrogations none of the verses of the Qur'an contradict each other.

أَفَلاَ يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفاً كَثِيراً

(004:082)
Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.

Quote:

Some pagan Arabs alleged that the Qur’an was forged by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Allah (swt) challenges these Arabs in the following verse of Surah Al-Isra: "Say: If the whole of Mankind and Jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur’an they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support."
[Al-Qur’an 17:88]

Later the challenge was made easy in the following verse of Surah Al-Hud:

"Or they may say, "He forged it." Say, "Bring ye then ten Surahs forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsover ye can, other than Allah, if ye speak the truth!’."
[Al-Qur’an 11:13]

It was made easier in the following verse of Surah Yunus:

"Or do they say, "He forged it"? Say: "Bring then a Surah like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can, besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!’."
[Al-Qur’an 10:38]

Finally in Surah Al-Baqarah, Allah (swt) further simplied the challenge:

And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true.

But if ye cannot – and of a surety ye cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – which is prepared for those who reject faith".
[Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]

Thus Allah (swt) made the challenges progressively easier. The progressively revealed verses of the Qur’an first challenged the pagans to produce a book like the Qur’an, then challenged them to produce ten Surahs (chapters) like those in the Qur’an, then one Surah and finally it challenges them to produce one Surah somewhat similar (mim mislihi) to the Qur’anic Surahs. This does not mean that the later verses that were revealed i.e. of Surah Baqarah chapter 2 verses 23 and 24 contradict the earlier three verses. Contradiction implies mentioning two things that cannot be possible simultaneously, or cannot take place simultaneously.

The earlier verses of the Qur’an i.e. the abrogated verses are still the word of God and the information contained in it is true to this day. For instance the challenge to produce a recital like the Qur’an stands to this day. Similarly the challenge to produce ten Surahs and one Surah exactly like the Qur’an also holds true and the last challenge of producing one surah somewhat similar to the Qur’an also holds true. It does not contradict the earlier challenges, but this is the easiest of all the challenges posed by the Qur’an. If the last challenge cannot be fulfilled, the question of anyone fulfilling the other three more difficult challenges does not arise.

Suppose I speak about a person that he is so dumb, that he would not be able to pass the 10th standard in school. Later I say that he would not be able to pass the 5th standard, and further say that he would not be able to pass even the 1st standard. Finally I say that he is so dull that he would not even be able to pass K.G. i.e. kindergarten. One has to pass kindergarten before one can be admitted to school. What I am stating is that the person is so dull as to be unable to pass even kindergarten. My four statements do not contradict each other, but my last statement i.e. the person would not be able to pass the kindergarten is sufficient to indicate the intelligence of that person. If a person cannot even pass kindergarten, the question of him passing the first standard or 5th or 10th, does not arise.

Quote:

Another example of such verses is that related to gradual prohibition of intoxicants. The first revelation of the Qur’an to deal with intoxicants was the following verse from Surah Baqarah:

"They ask thee concerning wine and gambling say: ‘In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit’."
[Al-Qur’an 2:219]

The next verse to be revealed regarding intoxicants is the following verse from Surah Nisa:

"O ye who believe! approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say" [Al-Qur’an 4:43]

The last verse to be revealed regarding intoxicants was the following verse from Surah Al-Maidah:

"O ye who believe! intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination of Satan’s handiwork; eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper."
[Al-Qur’an 5:90]

The Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years. Many reforms that were brought about in the society were gradual. This was to facilitate the adoption of new laws by the people. An abrupt change in society always leads to rebellion and anarchy.

The prohibition of intoxicants was revealed in three stages. The first revelation only mentioned that in the intoxicants there is great sin and some profit but the sin is greater than the profit. The next revelation prohibited praying in an intoxicated state, indicating that one should not consume intoxicants during the day, since a Muslim has to pray five times a day. This verse does state that when one is not praying at night one is allowed to consume intoxicants. It means one may have or one may not have. The Qur’an does not comment on it. If this verse had mentioned that one is allowed to have intoxicants while not praying then there would have been a contradiction. Allah (swt) chose words appropriately. Finally the total prohibition of intoxicants at all times was revealed in Surah Maidah chapter 5 verse 90.

This clearly indicates that the three verses do not contradict each other. Had they been contradicting, it would not have been possible to follow all the three verses simultaneously. Since a Muslim is expected to follow each and every verse of the Qur’an, only by following the last verse i.e. of Surah Maidah (5:90), he simultaneously agrees and follows the previous two verses.

Suppose I say that I do not live in Los Angeles. Later I say that I do not live in California. Finally I say, I do not live in the United States of America. This does not imply that these three statements contradict each other. Each statement gives more information than the previous statement. The third statement includes the information contained in the first two statements. Thus, only by saying that I do not live in the United States of America, it is obvious, that I also do not live in California nor New York. Similarly since consuming alcohol is totally prohibited, it is obvious that praying in an intoxicated state is also prohibited and the information that in intoxicants is "great sin and some profit for men; but the sin is greater than profit" also holds true.

**Re: Abrogations -** 07-03-2005

There are three types of al-Naskh in the Glorious Qur'an:

- Abrogation of the Ruling and the verse - (for example, Naskh al-Hukm wa at-Tilaawah It was among the recitation of the Qur'an: ten known times of suckling. This was about ruling of a child's suckling" [Reported by Imams al-Bukhari and Muslim ]).
- The abrogation of the ruling without the verse - Naskh al-Hukm doona at-Tilaawah (Such as: the verse of the will on behalf relatives [2: 180], Surah al-Baqarah: 240, and the verse of easing the task of fighting [8: 65].
- Abrogation of the verse without the ruling - Naskh at-Tilaawah doona al-Hukm (such as the verse concerning stoning the married one who commits Zina)

khal_75 · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-04-2005

mashalla a gr8 reply frm :brother: osman :applaud:

Aziz · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-04-2005

thanks brothers.....

Osman · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadafi

There are three types of al-Naskh in the Glorious Qur'an:

- Abrogation of the Ruling and the verse - (for example, Naskh al-Hukm wa at-Tilaawah It was among the recitation of the Qur'an: ten known times of suckling. This was about ruling of a child's suckling" [Reported by Imams al-Bukhari and Muslim ]).
- The abrogation of the ruling without the verse - Naskh al-Hukm doona at-Tilaawah (Such as: the verse of the will on behalf relatives [2: 180], Surah al-Baqarah: 240, and the verse of easing the task of fighting [8: 65].
- Abrogation of the verse without the ruling - Naskh at-Tilaawah doona al-Hukm (such as the verse concerning stoning the married one who commits Zina)

Does Al-Naskh mean abrogation(s)?

**Re: Abrogations -** 07-05-2005

Nask

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osman

Does Al-Naskh mean abrogation(s)?

Yes

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-05-2005

Also, Abrogation occurs when the previous ruling is completely revoked. This is different from Takhsees, where the ruling is just specified for certain conditions. Some Early scholars used the word 'naskh' to refer to both, but now scholars make a distinction between takhsees and naskh.

The example of alcohol is one of takhsees, because all the previous verses still apply. i.e. we are still not allowed to pray when drunk. but the ruling of not drinking intoxicants at all, has been added on top, rather than revoking the original command.

You can read Shaykh Yasir Qadhi's book for more info.

Hope that's not too confusing.

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-05-2005

I also found what Ahmad von Denffer wrote about the issue:

Abrogation and Specification
There is of course a difference between abrogation and specification. By the latter is meant that one revelation explains in more detail or according to specific circumstances how another revelation should be understood.

Example:
Sura 2:183 says 'O you who believe, fasting is prescribed to you ...'
Narrated 'Ata' that he heard Ibn 'Abbas reciting the Divine verse 'for those who can do it is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent' (2:184).
Ibn 'Abbas said 'This verse is not abrogated but it is meant for old men and old women who have no strength to fast, so they should feed one poor person for each day of fasting (instead of fasting). [Bukhari, VI, No. 32.]
It is quite clear that the second verse (2:184) does not abrogate the rule of fasting from the first verse (2:183) but explains that in a specific case, that of feeble old people, there is a way of making up for the loss of fast.
In the same way the verses concerning intoxicating drinks can be understood as specifications rather than abrogations (see 4:43;2:219;5:93-4).

Summary
The Qur'an, in 2:106, refers to the concept of naskh. However, there is a difference of opinion about the extent to which al-nasikh wa-al mansukh does in fact occur in the text of the Qur'an. The information concerning al-nasikh wa-al mansukh must be treated with great caution as, for all reports concerning the text of the Qur'an, two independent witnesses are required. Many of the examples which the scholars have drawn upon to illustrate this question (and I have quoted them for the same purpose) are based on one witness only. 'A'isha alone reported that 10 or 5 sucklings had been part of the Qur'anic recitation, and only 'Umar reported that the 'verse of stoning' had been included in the Qur'anic text. These legal rulings are not included in the Qur'an precisely because they were not considered reliable, being based on one witness only. Similarly, other examples about naskh, based on the words of Ibn 'Abbas or Mujahid alone, are to be judged by the same measure.
However, as mentioned there remain a small number of verses which, as far as can be ascertained from the internal evidence of the Qur'an, have been superseded by other verses in the Qur'an.

**Re: Abrogations -** 07-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

Also, Abrogation occurs when the previous ruling is completely revoked. This is different from Takhsees, where the ruling is just specified for certain conditions. Some Early scholars used the word 'naskh' to refer to both, but now scholars make a distinction between takhsees and naskh.

The example of alcohol is one of takhsees, because all the previous verses still apply. i.e. we are still not allowed to pray when drunk. but the ruling of not drinking intoxicants at all, has been added on top, rather than revoking the original command.

You can read Shaykh Yasir Qadhi's book for more info.

Hope that's not too confusing.

I definitely did not know about this. So if I understand it correctly, takhsees is about narrowing the same rule untill it is finally abrogated? For instance, the intoxicants prohibition?

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: Abrogations -** 07-05-2005

Quote:

I definitely did not know about this. So if I understand it correctly, takhsees is about narrowing the same rule untill it is finally abrogated? For instance, the intoxicants prohibition?

Takhsees is basically the answer to why there is no contradiction between the verses in the Qur'anb saying "fight the disbelievers" and "there is no compulsion in religion". Each specifies a different case.

I also encountered it recently while doing research for the my recent article. See here:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#10

A verse can only be considered nasikh when it abrogates the other verse, completely. Alcohol prohibition is a case where the ruling is simply added to, not abrogated.

Here's an excerpt from Shaykh Qadhi's book:

The Difference between Naskh and Takhsees

The phenomenon of takhsees (specification) was mentioned at the beginning of this chapter. It is essential that the concept of naskh not be confused with that of takhsees and for this reason many scholars of uloom al-qur'an included in theirt works the difference between naskh and takhsees.

Takhsees is defined to be the specification of a general ruling ('aam), such that what seems to be a general ruling only applies in certain cases. For example the Qur'aan sayus about the amputation of the hand of the thief:
And the thief-male orr female- cut off their hands 5:38

This verse is general ('aam) and implies that the hand of every thief must be cut. The Prophet saws however qualified that the thief in this case must steal above a certain monetary value. if he stole below this value, this ruling will not apply to him. This then, is an example of takhsees: the hand of every thief will not be cut, only those who styeal above a certain monetary value are punished.

Naskh differs from takhsees in the following manners:
1. Naskh may only occur with regards to laws and rulings (ahkaam). Takhsees, on the other hand may occur with respect to other matters...

2. Naskh implies a total abandonment of the previous ruling, no matter what the case. takhsees on the other hand, is defined to be the implementation of a previous ruling only in some of the original cases . In other words, after a takhsees occurs, the ruling is not totally invalid, but rather valid in a narrower frame.

There is some more, insha'Allah I'll post the rest later.

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	(#1 (permalink))
Aziz For the Emperor! Status: Offline Posts: 1,658 Reputation: 998 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: City of Mosques,Bangladesh Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Abrogations - 07-03-2005 Discuss about them and when and why they took place.

	(#2 (permalink))
al faqeer الله اكبر Status: Offline Posts: 60 Reputation: 139 Rep Power: 21 Join Date: May 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Abrogations - 07-03-2005 Abrogation of what exactly akhi ?? __________________ من تواضع لله رفعه

	(#3 (permalink))
Osman LI Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 3,507 Reputation: 15591 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Warrington, England Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Abrogations - 07-03-2005 I think he is referring to the theory of abrogation whereby certain earlier verses of the Qur'an were abrogated by later ones. __________________ Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter? They are to forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you. ~ Prophet Muhammad (May Allah bless him and grant him peace)

	(#5 (permalink))
Aziz For the Emperor! Status: Offline Posts: 1,658 Reputation: 998 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: City of Mosques,Bangladesh Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Abrogations - 07-03-2005 yes I was talking about them in the Quran.Can you people please help?

	(#7 (permalink))
kadafi Guest Status: Posts: n/a Reputation: Gender:	Re: Abrogations - 07-03-2005 There are three types of al-Naskh in the Glorious Qur'an: - Abrogation of the Ruling and the verse - (for example, Naskh al-Hukm wa at-Tilaawah It was among the recitation of the Qur'an: ten known times of suckling. This was about ruling of a child's suckling" [Reported by Imams al-Bukhari and Muslim ]). - The abrogation of the ruling without the verse - Naskh al-Hukm doona at-Tilaawah (Such as: the verse of the will on behalf relatives [2: 180], Surah al-Baqarah: 240, and the verse of easing the task of fighting [8: 65]. - Abrogation of the verse without the ruling - Naskh at-Tilaawah doona al-Hukm (such as the verse concerning stoning the married one who commits Zina)

	(#8 (permalink))
khal_75 LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 111 Reputation: 281 Rep Power: 22 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: @home Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Abrogations - 07-04-2005 mashalla a gr8 reply frm :brother: osman :applaud:

	(#9 (permalink))
Aziz For the Emperor! Status: Offline Posts: 1,658 Reputation: 998 Rep Power: 23 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: City of Mosques,Bangladesh Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Abrogations - 07-04-2005 thanks brothers.....

	(#12 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,165 Reputation: 12833 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Abrogations - 07-05-2005 Also, Abrogation occurs when the previous ruling is completely revoked. This is different from Takhsees, where the ruling is just specified for certain conditions. Some Early scholars used the word 'naskh' to refer to both, but now scholars make a distinction between takhsees and naskh. The example of alcohol is one of takhsees, because all the previous verses still apply. i.e. we are still not allowed to pray when drunk. but the ruling of not drinking intoxicants at all, has been added on top, rather than revoking the original command. You can read Shaykh Yasir Qadhi's book for more info. Hope that's not too confusing. __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

	(#13 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,165 Reputation: 12833 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Abrogations - 07-05-2005 I also found what Ahmad von Denffer wrote about the issue: Abrogation and Specification There is of course a difference between abrogation and specification. By the latter is meant that one revelation explains in more detail or according to specific circumstances how another revelation should be understood. Example: Sura 2:183 says 'O you who believe, fasting is prescribed to you ...' Narrated 'Ata' that he heard Ibn 'Abbas reciting the Divine verse 'for those who can do it is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent' (2:184). Ibn 'Abbas said 'This verse is not abrogated but it is meant for old men and old women who have no strength to fast, so they should feed one poor person for each day of fasting (instead of fasting). [Bukhari, VI, No. 32.] It is quite clear that the second verse (2:184) does not abrogate the rule of fasting from the first verse (2:183) but explains that in a specific case, that of feeble old people, there is a way of making up for the loss of fast. In the same way the verses concerning intoxicating drinks can be understood as specifications rather than abrogations (see 4:43;2:219;5:93-4). Summary The Qur'an, in 2:106, refers to the concept of naskh. However, there is a difference of opinion about the extent to which al-nasikh wa-al mansukh does in fact occur in the text of the Qur'an. The information concerning al-nasikh wa-al mansukh must be treated with great caution as, for all reports concerning the text of the Qur'an, two independent witnesses are required. Many of the examples which the scholars have drawn upon to illustrate this question (and I have quoted them for the same purpose) are based on one witness only. 'A'isha alone reported that 10 or 5 sucklings had been part of the Qur'anic recitation, and only 'Umar reported that the 'verse of stoning' had been included in the Qur'anic text. These legal rulings are not included in the Qur'an precisely because they were not considered reliable, being based on one witness only. Similarly, other examples about naskh, based on the words of Ibn 'Abbas or Mujahid alone, are to be judged by the same measure. However, as mentioned there remain a small number of verses which, as far as can be ascertained from the internal evidence of the Qur'an, have been superseded by other verses in the Qur'an. __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.