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^ A person isn't born homosexual, they turn into one by influence of society!!

Was that post to me?

I don't know the origin of homosexuality, but if someone does have those urges, like any other haram urge (fornication, drinking alchohol, etc.), then it is a test for them. If they do not abstain from those things then the hadd punishment should be carried out.

Most people assume that if someone is homosexual, then there must have been some environmental factors, some childhood factors, or something in their life which made them the way they are. Such thoughts,again implies that they view homosexuality as something lesser than heterosexuality.

Being homosexual is not a choice. However, coming out, choosing that lifestyle is a choice. I think a lot of people do not get this and think that homosexuality is something that can be “cured” out of you.
As far as religion is concerned, if God is great, loving, the most merciful, I refuse to believe that that God punish you for a choice that you did not make, and most of all that God will not punish you for loving.

For all those people who oppose homosexuality on moral basis, I ask you, what is so bad about homosexuality? I think it is hard for us to accept homosexuality, only because we have been socialized in such a way from the beginning , where gender roles were defined for us and anything that moved away from such defined roles are seen as a “threat” and “deviant”.

Seriously, keeping religious scriptures aside, what is so ” natural” about marriage? What is so ” natural” about intercourse between heterosexuals? What is so ” natural” about girls playing with dolls and wearing make up, and boys being brave and not crying?

Again, aren’t we told all these by ” society”? …and at the end of the day, what is society? Isn’t it our own creation?

To really understand homosexuality means challenging all basis of society and being able to see how certain frameworks within our society are reinforced time over time to ensure the success of a certain group.

@ crayon- the other post was to Nerd

This is a question for everybody, and not just for you, crayon:

If you found out that your son or brother or husband or best friend was actively gay, would you really call for his execution???

no , i'd try to change em first , and probly end up killin them anyway, nah jus jokin but they'd definately get a good beating

Thanks for your reply, aadil.

Do you think it would change the way you feel about the person close to you, having found out that he is gay?
Would you still care for him? Trust him? Socialise with him? Be seen in public with him?

I know of no evidence for the claims that homosexuality should be punished with execution. Could people who make claims like this please support their claims with Ayaath or hadeeth?

To Nerd,
I think its a mixture of childhood factors + genetic inclination. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, in Islam people are never judged for what they are, but only judged for what they do!

I wouldn't use the term curing, but I do think that a person who has these urges can still live a happy, normal, natural heterosexual life if he'd choose so. Of course the requirement is that he chooses so out of will, not because he feels forced or bullied into that choice. and you said it yourself, you think that it is a matter of choice.

Yes completely true, you'll only be judged for your actions and choices, not for your nature or feelings.

Well that's a hard question. There's several things to say, and none are absolutely conclusive.
First let us consider sodomy, since that is one of the biggest issues here.
Sodomy is forbidden not only between males, but also between male and female. There have been studies that showed that sodomy has a much higher chance of getting STD's. Several STD's are only transmittable by blood. However as well in the vagina as well as the anus, tiny fractures can cause bleeding. The difference however is that this is a lot more common in the anus then in the vagina, since it's more tight. Several other smaller problems can occur more frequently like hammeroids for example.
Second of all there's the problem of biology. Man and female were created in that way so they could have offspring. Two men can't form a natural family (or they would have to adopt or resort to other methods).
Thirdly there's a social issue. In Islam there's a separation of gender. The idea behind it, is so people wouldn't be tempted all the time, or at least not that much. This strengthens the family relationships. The first step for a person to fall in love with someone else is to get to know someone else. Keeping separation between genders thus protects the family. However, this only works for hetero people. That's just of the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if there'd be other issues.

The most basic function of (an ideal) marriage is to provide both sides with security, guaranteed emotional support and protection. It also guarantees fathers looking out for their children.

Are you serious? How about the reproductive system? I mean to me asking what is natural about straight intercourse sounds like: "what so natural about making coffee with a coffee machine when you could just as well make tea with it?" Yeah sure, technically you can make tea with a coffee machine, but that's not what it's built to do.

Girls have natural advantages that make them better fit for nursing, and boys have natural advantages that make them better fit for protecting/hunting. Many of those advantages are obvious, others not. An example: woman's pupils are further from each other compared to men. Due to this they have a different field of vision. Men have a better three dimensional view, which allows them for example to make a spear hit a deer at 10m distance much better. Woman on the other hand have a more panoramic viewpoint allowing them to multitask better, or for example to keep an eye on 3 kids at the same time. And make no mistake, this aren't just cliché's, this is actually scientifically tested!

Our own creation, perhaps partially, but it was created like that based on the experience of all the generations who lived before you. They lived life, and "society" learned these things trough trial and error. And sure society will also teach wrong things. afterall humans are fallible, but there are logically sound reasons behind many of these social upheld regulations.

In all fairness, I do understand your argument, and see that there's a bigger picture behind it. For my part it's not a matter of not seeing the picture, but rather a matter of disagreeing with that particular picture. I guess that makes me a conservative, but to some extend I don't really object to that label.

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and no mate we do get it, we're certain that no-one is born to be naturally attracted to the same sex, because thats how God created us to be, we're attracted to the opposite sex not the same! If that wasn't the case then why can't two women or men reproduce? ? Or even have sexual relations the proper way?
And you're implying that God has made some of us gay, and that we can't help it. Thats just a massive lie against God!
No - one is naturally attracted to the same sex - a simple test could prove that , if you get what I mean
What ever makes people want to practice this ---- is clearly from there own urges and queer desires, they just want to go a step further, try new stuff etc
Don't try and sympathise them and make it sound as if its perfectly normal, because clearly its not
It has EVERYTHING to with environmental factors , yes a boy playing with dolls will make him a girly girl, then when he grows up he'll feel that he can't fit in with the boys, then he'll start playin with girls, eventually start dressin up like em, and thats when he supposedly discovers that hes gays

Its just society creating this category, which some start to feel that fit into

btw sorry for the abrupt manner , I have thing for queer folks, eg. theres a 'lad' in college who recenlty had hair extensions and's planning on surgery, everyones like --- when he/she goes by

hell yes it would, no I wouldn't care for them to a certain extent, no I would definately not choose to socialise with them and no I would not want to be seen in public with them even if it is accepted in that society

Bro have you read in the Quran about the People of Sodom and Prophet Saleh?
They basically carried on their inhumane acts even after the prophet Saleh(peace be upon him) offered his daughters to them, they carried on, they were sent a warning, then They were all destroyed

And Someone provide him with some evidence

As salaam Alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

The 82nd verse of Surah Hud clearly stated the kind of disaster that befell the people of lut. “When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay, spread, layer on layer”

The statement of “turning (the cities) upside down” implies that the region was totally destroyed by a violent earthquake.

Accordingly, The Lake of Lut, where the destruction took place, bears “obvious” evidence of such a disaster.

Greetings,

I think the answer to your question lies in the natural disposition that God has created mankind upon. This is what makes things seem "natural" and others not. And we can clearly see the differences in men and women, hence their different roles in society. These have not been defined by people's choice, but rather by how they have been created.

So our view towards homosexuality is not derived from how we have been socialised, rather it is the sense of morality that God has instilled in human beings. In the same way that we perceive murder as wrong, so is homosexuality. Even a homosexual himself can see the deviation in his desire from that which is natural. Hence we can understand where the test comes into it - a person's sense of right and wrong must control their actions, not their desire for sinful acts.

Also - For previous discussions on homosexuality, where many of the points discussed in this thread have already been addressed before, please see:
http://www.islamicboard.com/547956-post9.html (Cases for Execution)

For the punishment of homosexuality, one can refer to this article:
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=38622&ln=eng&