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| a.k.a. steve Status: Offline Posts: 1,758 Reputation: 8039 Rep Power: 34 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Belgium, Gent Gender: Way of Life: Muslim | Quote:
(source) What we know of biology, is that people carry both dominant and regressive genes. When the man produces sperm, or the woman produces egg cells. Each DNA is split into two, so for each two egg cells or sperm cells made, there will be one carrying the regressive traits and one carrying the dominant. It seems unlikely that whether the egg cell carrying the dominant or the regressive traits is released from the ovaries, is determined by the timing of sexual discharge, simply because the egg cell could have been already released prior to it. However, which sperm cell makes it to the egg cell is still la big mystery to science. Certainly the better swimmer will get there first; but the egg cell doesn't always open up. So is it possible for the dominant/regressive-trait sperm cell to be affected by it? Maybe, maybe not, we really can't say at this point, but what we can't say is that science doesn't deny it. So now for the second part, what decides whether it is a boy or girl? The sex is decided by which sperm cell makes it. Woman have an XX gene whereas men have XY. So the woman's egg cell always caries one X-gene whereas the man's sperm cells come with either an X-gene or with a Y-gene. If a Y-gene makes it, then the fusion XY will make a male embryo; whereas if a sperm cell carrying an X-gene makes it, the XX fusion will make a female embryo. Important here is that the sex is thus always decided by the sperm, and not by the egg cells. Now, I'll leave it to that, since it shows that there is still room within science for this hadeeth to be truthful. There's a lot to say still, like how the moment of discharge could alter the pH of the woman's womb, or we could talk about how some dominant and regressive traits could be mixed on the same gene, or about what really qualifies as "resembling". But I think that all that that would result to is speculation. So unless someone does some serious scientific research on this, we'll have to conclude science does not contradict this hadeeth. | |
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| a.k.a. steve Status: Offline Posts: 1,758 Reputation: 8039 Rep Power: 34 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Belgium, Gent Gender: Way of Life: Muslim | The reason why the correction makes a difference is because the hadeeth is clearly revering to boys. That doesn't mean that girls cannot resemble their father, or boys resemble their mother. That only means, that the explanation is only referring to the case of a boy either resembling his father or his maternal uncle. As I said in my previous post we need to consider which characteristics they meant. Not all traits are simply dominant/regressive like the color of eyes. Some are co-optive and even other traits are dependent on two or even more separate genes. Like some might rely on the presence of high levels of testosterone in order to work. Meaning that a woman carrying these genes will not show the specific traits. Other then that, yeah, you're right, I forgot about the uncle having to have it to, that does seem to pose a problem at first time. I need to think this trough a bit longer.
__________________Anyway, this still doesn't exclude the possibility that the hadeeth refers to characteristics that aren't necessarily DNA-dependent. Like a person's character for example. |
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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 331 Reputation: 238 Rep Power: 5 Join Date: Feb 2008 Way of Life: Undisclosed | You seem to have neglected the fact that the answer the Prophet pbuh gave is "the child will resemble her" even if the question doesn't say that. |
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| a.k.a. steve Status: Offline Posts: 1,758 Reputation: 8039 Rep Power: 34 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Belgium, Gent Gender: Way of Life: Muslim | Oh wait, yes well noticed, so the hadeeth isn't contradicted by science afterall. Although the jew asked why does he resemble the maternals uncle, the prophet (peace be upon him) answered he will resemble her. So the hadeeth doesn't contradict genetics afterall ^_^
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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 453 Reputation: 2038 Rep Power: 9 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New York Gender: Way of Life: Muslim | brother, this hadith seems to be very open to interpretation. Here is a scholarly article written on the subject of this hadith. http://www.rcpe.ac.uk/publications/a...n_genetics.pdf This makes alot of sense now. |
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| Bring Back Islam Status: Offline Posts: 554 Reputation: 383 Rep Power: 18 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangladesh Gender: Way of Life: Muslim | Quote:
The article contains Simple n Honest analisys.. Here i am, God! i'm at your service | |
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| LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 331 Reputation: 238 Rep Power: 5 Join Date: Feb 2008 Way of Life: Undisclosed | I did put this one to a geneticist. Result here. Also I'm still curious about how Abdullah bin Salam could verify the Prophet's (pbuh) answers. I would also be interested to hear what you think of this hadith, a few on from the one you were discussing: Quote:
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