What would you say to people who may ask a question "Is Islam peaceful religion at all?"

Here is something that I have learned about Islam.

Telling a lie is accebtable in Islam, if it protects person himself, keeps peace among family or ecpecially protects Islam. A muslim can tell a lie to another muslim too and a muslim man can tell a lie to his wife ("A tagiya"). Even Mohammed himself order to lie in Quran.

When Islam meets with defeat, they can make a a peace ("hudna"). If Islam is winning, there is no place for "hudna". You can find these two cases from Quran. It sounds peculiar, isn't it?

When you read Quran (a bundle of orders), it is said clearly: If it is necessary, Islam must be brought to everywhere on earth with outrage. People who defends Islam being a peaceful religion always talks about writings that talk about time of Mecca. In Mecca Mohammed was weak and was gathering others. Mohammed hadn't a chance to take the risk of being violent. He needed a lot of supporters. Who would have supported a violent religion? Well, Islam is not only religion it's also way to rule.

Time of Mecca was peaceful, but when Mohammed became a leader, laws of Medina became above all! If there is possibility for interpretation in Quran, law of Medina is above the other law. Peaceful verses were overruled by laws of Medina. ("mansukh")

Are there any moral laws in Islam at all?

If other than muslim doesn't approve of Islamic rules (Quran), you have to fight against them. There are no place for friends ("auliya") If you take other than muslim for your "auliya", you become also similar.

Muslims have to fight to get Islam in power. If there are muslims who tend to be peaceful and moderate, they have to deny Quran and they become like others (than muslims). Only way to act like this is to leave Islam. Otherwise you need to obey Quran, words of Mohammed (or Allah).

"In west, facade of muslim fundamendalism is religion of peace, because they are waiting more muslim immigrants: increasing number and increasing political strenght. When this happens, be aware!" (Walid Shoevat, former muslim, present christian)

How peaceful is Islam? Are you only being polite for non-muslims and waiting to get enough strenght to start "Holy War"? Or do you think that Islam is one among other religion and everybody can believe in what ever - you don't mind it?

If someone would give an order "start Holy War" now, what would you do? Watching beside and seeing what happens? Taking a part of war helping muslim to win a war or non-muslim to end the war?

It is actually very interesting. Every laws, rules and orders, that Mohammed said on Medina, are very violent and those laws are above others. When Islam was born it was tied into goverment and it is not kept only as religion but it is also being part of community. Some groups in Islam keep jihad as physical jihad, some keep it only as mental jihad - battle inside person itself.

I saw a sad document where only 12yo kid was prepared to be a martyr. The kid was brainwashed totally, he said he remember Quran entirely. When kid asked a question will he get every toys on paradise, father said "Of course, what ever you want!" I only wonder if the kid was even realizing the whole situation.

The whole text above sounds quite negative, but this is often the case, when you talk about Islam with non-muslim. But on the other hand media and politicians are making a picture of peaceful Islam stepping into modern world. This is the correct way to introduce it. But how tolerant and modern is Islam? They are lots of muslims who have left Islam, because they kept it as a violent religion that doesn't fit nowadays world.

I haven't lived among muslims so I have no subjective experiences of Islam. Only knowledge I have learned from several books and so on (including Quran). I haven't study Islam for years like I was studying bible from perspective of Jehovah's witness or studying Christianity from perspective being an christian and so on.

So, I would like to hear what nowadays muslims think about Islam. Of course this will be a view of modern muslim, who is capable of using internet and so on...

LMAO!
You think Muslims are still riding around the desert on camels wrapped in flowing robes?
Oooohh deary me!

Anyway, i'll just grab my popcorn, Im watching this one from the sides.

LOL

times of mecca were peaceful?

yeah burying daughters etc was really peaceful eh? oh and the flags inviting men to have orgies? very peaceful!

and as for the lying, ever heard of a white-lie? so if someone wants to unjustly torture you i should just give your name away? yeah thats so righteous right *rolls eyes*



*joins barney at the side and steals his popcorn*

Well, there are lots of muslim living areas where are not internet connections, no possibilities to use internet and if there are, internet might be prohibited. Of course, every answers will be only from people living modern home/schools/...

Yes, I don't think that people who live in desert are answering on this message ;)

Ehm, you don't see the difference between laws, rules and orders when Mohammed started Islam and when Mohammed were a leader? Take your popcorn and read the history. You should see the grat difference these all laws etc. Im quite sad, you are only making jokes.

I probably need to change a forum another where people take question more seriously. It seems to be, that it's not possible here.

Taqiya is a Shi'a concept which isn't a part of mainstream Sunni Islam, and it is prohibited by Allah in the Qur'an and by the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) in the Sunnah.


"O You who believe! Have taqwa (God Consciousness) with Allah, and be among the truthful." (Qur'an Surat al- Tawbah 9:119)

http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=430


No, he never. You'll have to bring proof for that.



Muslims are permitted to make peace treaties with other nations.


Please prove that by quoting from the Qur'an, thanks.




He was told by God to remain patient, and when he entered Medinah for safety for him and his followers - the polytheists continued to pursue them to eradicate them from the face of the earth. So permission was given to fight back.

If you feel that innocent people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves, then i think that's unjust of you.



Mecca wasn't peaceful, the polytheist pagans tortured, rape and killed many muslims. Yet the muslims remained patient upon their faith until they found a way to practise their religion freely in Medinah. However, like explained before - the polytheists continued to wage war against them.




to mention just a few:


Equality
The Prophet said: 'There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab, nor for a fair-skinned person over a person with dark skin, nor for a dark-skinned person over a person with fair skin. Whoever is more pious and God-fearing is more deserving of honour.' (Musnad Ahmad)


Sincerity
The Prophet said: 'Actions will be judged according to their intentions.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim)

Mercy
The Prophet said: 'Show mercy to those on earth so that He who is in heaven will have mercy on you.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

Gentleness
The Prophet said: 'Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good.' (Sahîh Muslim)

Forgiveness
The Prophet said: 'Whoever suffers an injury done to him and forgives (the person responsible), Allah will raise his status to a higher degree and remove one of his sins.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

Virtue
The Prophet said: 'Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

Justice
The Prophet said: 'The most virtuous jihâd is when one speaks a word of truth before an unjust ruler.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd, Sunan At-Tirmidhî, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)

Civility
The Prophet said: 'The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely, or speak rudely.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)


more:
http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...-muhammad.html (The Profound Teachings of Prophet Muhammad)




In the Qur'an, God mentions;

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

[Qur'an 60:8-9]

Doesn't the US have to fight to get in power? Doesn't any nation need to fight a force which is opposing them?

Muslims who are more peaceful are more peaceful because of Qur'an, yet they stand up for their rights when need be - that's how the muslim should be.




No, muslims just want to live in certain lands because they want to practise their religion freely, while being law abiding citizens.



No, we're not. We believe that people have the right to follow the religion they choose to;

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. [Qur'an 2:256]

Living in a non muslim state while having a visa means that we are to live at peace with the people. Killing innocent people is not permitted in Islam, therefore how could people have a 'holy war' within a nation where there is no war zone or leader?




Ji had is real, but it is done in the right circumstances. Not what you see of innocents being killed, that isn't a part of Islam.



That's because they never properly understood the religion in the first place, or they followed their desires instead of the true guidance.




I'm glad you're still open minded and willing to read more about Islam from Muslims

here's a good link to start from;

http://islamreligion.com




Thanks for asking.




Peace.

and just what have you read?

3 Circumstances in which you can Lie

Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a kind form in order to bring reconciliation between them).

(Sahih Muslim, Hadith number 6303-05)

I think brother Qatada has done a good job at answering all of the questions.

Bravo….

Next bus to zagraba now boarding..
step write up and tie your camel in the designated area..
All technologies strictly prohibited, that goes for your nail clippers, your seamless panties, any toiletry applied to the skin in order to mask unpleasant odors..
proceed to the next car where you'll take a quick refresher course in bugaboos in order to send afright unsuspecting civilized westerners.. 5 minutes for gesticulating, another five in loud yammering.. learning how to burn flags optional but recommended..

next car, where a small frontal lobotomy will be preformed to strip you of any proper recorded knowledge of Islamic history, so that you are not having a gelastic seizures everytime you meet with an enlightened foreigner (see above) who seems to know more about Islam both in theology, history and jurisprudence ..

next car another quick refresher on how to oppress your women folk..once graduated, please grab your caps and gowns and foot flip flops on the way off, you are now ready for jihad 101 as defined by the OP...

cheerio

LOL @ "optional but recommended"

Yup, and that's been explained;


It was reported that lying was legitimatized to benefit (someone or something), not to impair (the same). The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “A person who reconciles between two people and says good things, even if it is not true, is not a liar” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim). Umm Kulthum bint `Uqbah also said, in an addition to the hadith, “I never heard the Prophet permitting lying except in three cases: during war, to reconcile between two belligerent parties, the usual talk between the spouses.” What is meant by this talk is love talk to relieve the sufferings of life.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar


And in regard to war, deception can be used in circumstances since war is deception by both sides anyway - since both sides are trying to harm the other.

In regard to using words to make his wife happy such as if she asks "do i look fat" - he can say 'no' - even if he thinks she does look fat, so that he doesn't hurt her feelings.



And Allah knows best.

And for jyry, here's more evidences that lying is prohibited

Telling lies is bad conduct. It is not proper for righteous people and true believers; rather, it is a sign of hypocrisy, as the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The hypocrite has three characteristics: he tells lies, breaks his promise, and breaches the trust” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim).

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) warned against lying for the purpose of entertaining people. He said, “Woe on anyone who speaks to entertain the people by lying, woe on him, woe on him…” (Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, and An-Nasa’i).


The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) also said, “One is not considered a true believer till he abandons lying for fun and arguing even if he was telling the truth” (Ahmad and At-Tabarani). Several Prophetic hadiths warned the Muslims against frightening others seriously or jokingly. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, “It is not permissible for anyone to frighten a Muslim” (Abu Dawud).


http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar

Peace.

Thank you for a good reply

Didn't found it.. But this happens when Mohammed give an order to kill a man, but murderer's weren't able to do that. Mohammed ask them to lie. If I find this, I will add the quote here.

Permitted to make a peace when muslims are on weaker position? From Quran
9:29 "Fight against those who believe not into Allah.. until they feel themselves subdueded."

2:256 "The