I was simply agreeing with you (atleast thats what I thought I was doing), since you asked me "Are we supposed to then be loving (in the special way) to people who Allah hates and have earned His anger? "

But I suppose you meant something else, would you care to enlighten me on this matter brother?

As for the Comment, you have made about banning Cat's as pets:

“O ye who believe! Forbid not the good thing which Allah hath made ‘lawful’ for you, and transgress not. Lo Allah loveth not transgressors. Eat of that which Allah hath bestowed on you as food ‘lawful’ and good, and keep your duty to Allah in Whom ye are believers.” (Surah: Al-Ma'idha: Verse: 87-88)

Which verse in the Quran, or a Hadith specifies that Cat's are Haram as Household pets?

Nerd, my problem here is that you have no real understanding of WHY they forbade them as pets. You approach is shockingly simplistic. By the same logic you should be arguing against laws that forbid speeding on roads because there is nothing in the Quran that says we can't drive a car as fast as we want.

First go read the fatwa itself [no, a bias news article does not count] then come back and tell us why they are wrong to forbid the pets.

Anyway, it seems clear that they did not forbid is on the basis that there is something wrong with cats themselves, but the ban was based on something indirect - but we con't know that unless we read the fatwa itself.

Assalaam Alaikum All.

Interesting topic of discussion, good points raised by both sides has me a bit mixed on the whole thing. I mean, doesn't the Qur'an say:

There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.(2:256)

So there we have it, right there in our Holy Book disallowing forcing anyone to do anything in religious matters. If they are grabbing people by the collar and pushing them down to pray,threatening them with prison time,beatdowns or something of the sort it defeats the whole purpose of a Muslims duty as "just a plain warner". I don't really know if they are doing that or not, but any type of coercion with threats and gun and nightstick wielding should be unacceptable.

I think it is sort of good to have a police for things like shutting down places where alcohol is being sold or if someones out on the street selling porn or some un-Islamic act like that, but it shouldn't be abused to the point where Police walk into someones house to check if they are praying on time. That should just be encouraged, not forced.

If someone is committing sins of that kind (choosing not to fast etc.), it would be best to encourage them and talk to them. If they continue let them be punished by God personally on the Day of Judgment for his/her neglect.That's the way I see it.

As far as I know, this refers to people entering a religion, not to fulfilling the commands of the religion.

But did not the Messenger of Allah say something along the lines of commanding children to pray when they reach the age of 7 and by the age of ten, if they don't pray then hit them [lightly]?

In the privacy of their own homes, perhaps. But what right do they have to eat in public during Ramadhan when they should be fasting?

Wouldnt "No Compulsion in Religion" cover it?

It seems hard to reconcile the Verse that says this with the behaviour of the MFPOV&POV in Iran and under the Taliban, where showing an ankle brings on beatings and torture.

As I already mentioned no compulsion in religion refers to entering Islam, not practising Islam.

And claims of torture for showing ankles is pure exaggeration.

AFP, March 2, 1999


KABUL, March 2 (AFP) - Taliban soldiers here Tuesday forced some two dozen youths to get a haircut, while the religious police beat women for showing their ankles, witnesses said.

The soldiers herded 25 young men into a center near the Ministry of Justice where barbers went to work on their heads, they said.

"They took me inside and gave me a haircut without any explanation," Ahmad Jawid told AFP.

Rubbing his freshly mowed head, Jawid said each was made to pay 3,000 Afghanis (around eight cents) to barbers employed by the center.

Cobblers at a nearby pavement said the haircut operation had been going on for several days now and people avoided passing through the area.

A stick-wielding policeman was seen jumping off a van and lashing two passing women on their backs with a one-meter (yard) tree branch, while pointing toward their ankles.

The officer then entered garment shops and beat two other women in the same fashion before chasing them out of the market.

The women did not say a word as other shoppers and shopkeepers looked on.

The Islamic militia has banned western fashion and barred women from jobs and education, besides making it compulsory for them to cover themselves from head to toe outside the home.

The religious police of the Ministry for Promoting Virtue and Preventing Vice keeps a constant vigil to ensure compliance with the regulations by the citizens in Kabul, which was once a liberal city.

I'm not going to get into this discussion, because if I do I'll never come out.

I just wanted to say that it is not haram to keep cats as pets, but it is haram to sell or buy them. I actually only just found this out a while ago.

"It is permissible to keep cats but it is not permissible to buy or sell them; they may be given as gifts or given away. That is because of the hadeeth of Abu’l-Zubayr who said: “I asked Jaabir about the price of dogs and cats. He said, ‘The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade that.’” (Narrated by Muslim, 1569). "

islamq&a

There is nothing cool about innocent girls being killed in a fire because they wern't wearing the Hajib when they tried to get out and the poloice forceing them to go back.

I'm not a Muslim, but I do have great respect for Islam and it's beauty, such a beautifull religion should not be represented by the Saudi family and their police, not to cast judgement on the entire family, but many of them do horrid things.

"True piety is thid:
to beleive in God, and the last day,
the angels, the Book, and the Prophets,
to give of one's substance, however cherished,
to kinsmen and orphans,
the needy, the traveller, beggars,
and to ransom the slave,
to perform the prayer, and to pay the alms."