Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply

- Qatada - · 04:43 PM

I don't want this thread for any debate. It's for reference to Muslims.

The word "idribuhuna" does not mean to beat up the wife.
It means to hit her lightly (avoiding the face because hitting the face is forbidden in Islam) a hitting that is ghayr mubarrih, which does not cause harm to the body, like bruising or breaking a bone.

Ata' said: "I asked Ibn Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir. (probably on the tafsir of this verse itself [4:34]

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/speed2kx/256498233_b9c5b8ddf3_o.jpg

And this is the last resort for the husband.

You [the Muslim] argue that if tafsir and understanding of Qur'an [according to the understanding of the companions is required for all other rules such as salah, hajj, and even fighting fi sabilillah, then so is it equally important to follow their interpretation of these matters - since they are also part of the Qur'an]

- Qatada - · 04:43 PM

Some people may be confused over this hadith;

Quote:

Look at the following narration...

Saheeh Muslim
Book 004, Number 2127:

Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.

Can someone explain this to me please?

The arabic word, which has been used in the hadith is " لهدني ". this is a word which means pushing with a full hand.

(broken down in single letters " له د ن ي " ) [lahdany?]

keep in mind, this is a type of teaching not harming so it is not considered as hitting as it is precieved in accordance with nowadays people understanding.

wallahu A'lam

- Qatada - · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-09-2008

The following hadith comes directly from Aisha herself when she refutes those who say that the Messenger of Allah hit her (in the above mentioned hadith):

`A'ishah said,"The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah. And he was never given the option between two things except that the most beloved of the two to him was the easiest of them, as long as it did not involve sin. If it did involve sin, then he stayed farther away from sin than any of the people. He would not avenge himself concerning anything that was done to him, except if the limits of Allah were transgressed. Then, in that case he would avenge for the sake of Allah.'' Imam Ahmad also recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah said,

«إِنَّمَا بُعِثْتُ لِأُتَمِّمَ صَالِحَ الْأَخْلَاق»

(I have only been sent to perfect righteous behavior.)

Tafsir ibn Kathir - Surah Qalam (68)
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=68&tid=54734

- Qatada - · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-09-2008

http://idawah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=871

ASeeker · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-09-2008

So can we take it that it is permitted for a Muslim man to hit a woman?

FatimaAsSideqah · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-09-2008

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Alhamdulillah. Jazaak'Allah Khair akhi for more clarify.

**Muezzin** · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASeeker

So can we take it that it is permitted for a Muslim man to hit a woman?

If we take 'hit' to mean 'to palm' or 'to touch with a toothbrush-stick'.

- Qatada - · 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASeeker

So can we take it that it is permitted for a Muslim man to hit a woman?

- Qatada - · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-09-2008

it is also important to note that the woman that is hit lightly is not just a woman who does not cook or clean etc. It is concerning a wife who is lewd or doing unislamic acts (wearing halter top showing some cleavage infront of stranger guys) etc.. And it goes in steps. First admonishing her (advising her) second forsake her in bed (dontsleep with her so she knows that you are serious and that she needs Islah or reformation) and then a final stop to hit her lightly in a way that doesnt leave a mark! [i.e. with a tiny stick]

doorster · 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASeeker

So can we take it that it is permitted for a Muslim man to hit a woman?

depends on who translates the texts, in my familiy's version, you do not beat first last or ever!. I can post backing from many real life educated Muslim scholars but that would only upset the net mullahs and their backing teams of net warriors.

Quote:

I don't want this thread for any debate. It's for reference to Muslims.

why did you not get it locked then?

Quote:

And this is the last resort for the husband

I thought that last resort was divorce

Quote:

he word "idribuhuna" does not mean to beat up the wife.
It means to hit her lightly (avoiding the face because hitting the face is forbidden in Islam) a hitting that is ghayr mubarrih, which does not cause harm to the body, like bruising or breaking a bone.

I can see no difference and God forbid, if this translation is correct then it contradicts Prophet's sayings which are classed as Sahih (authentic)

and No correct translation of Quraan contradicts the Sahih Ahadees

wasalam

Quote:

it is important to keep in mind that any time we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

NYCmuslim · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-09-2008

I hope you know that the arabic root of the word "idriboohunna" ( ض ر ب), has multiple meanings which include to strike, travel, admonish, and/or avoid. This is something that should be considered when translating a word in the context of how the Quran talks about the relationship between the husband and wife in other verses.

Peace

Skye Ephémérine · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-10-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASeeker

So can we take it that it is permitted for a Muslim man to hit a woman?

only in Christianity is demeaning a woman allowed by 'divine' decree..

pls allow me

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Is.3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.

1 Cor.11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

1 Cor.14:34-36 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Eph.5:22-24 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."

Col.3:18 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."

1 Tim.2:11-15 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing

1 Pet.3:1 "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands."

so go home and keep your woman in her place he man, and lock your trailer doors, there are Muslims out there and they are a coming

cheers

Skye Ephémérine · **Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply -** 10-10-2008

Wife beating?
we should live by prophet Mohammed's example, while interpreting correctly the Quran --"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

Quote:

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Author:
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RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

Question:
Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)

Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.

Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.

Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.

Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.

Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.

Transliteration
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.)
Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."

And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."

As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.

Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.

The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.

However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this

	(#1 (permalink))
- Qatada - Ummah Under 1 Banner Status: Offline Posts: 10,379 Reputation: 41985 Rep Power: 84 Join Date: May 2005 Location: ...travelling to the hereafter.. Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply - 10-09-2008 I don't want this thread for any debate. It's for reference to Muslims. The word "idribuhuna" does not mean to beat up the wife. It means to hit her lightly (avoiding the face because hitting the face is forbidden in Islam) a hitting that is ghayr mubarrih, which does not cause harm to the body, like bruising or breaking a bone. Ata' said: "I asked Ibn Abbas: 'What is the hitting that is ghayr al-mubarrih?' He replied: '[With] the siwak and the like'." Narrated by al-Tabari in his Tafsir. (probably on the tafsir of this verse itself [4:34] http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/speed2kx/256498233_b9c5b8ddf3_o.jpg And this is the last resort for the husband. You [the Muslim] argue that if tafsir and understanding of Qur'an [according to the understanding of the companions is required for all other rules such as salah, hajj, and even fighting fi sabilillah, then so is it equally important to follow their interpretation of these matters - since they are also part of the Qur'an] __________________ iDawah.com Bringing Dawah back..to the future! http://salaf-stories.blogspot.com Last edited by - Qatada -; 10-09-2008 at 04:43 PM..

	(#3 (permalink))
- Qatada - Ummah Under 1 Banner Status: Offline Posts: 10,379 Reputation: 41985 Rep Power: 84 Join Date: May 2005 Location: ...travelling to the hereafter.. Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply - 10-09-2008 The following hadith comes directly from Aisha herself when she refutes those who say that the Messenger of Allah hit her (in the above mentioned hadith): `A'ishah said,"The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah. And he was never given the option between two things except that the most beloved of the two to him was the easiest of them, as long as it did not involve sin. If it did involve sin, then he stayed farther away from sin than any of the people. He would not avenge himself concerning anything that was done to him, except if the limits of Allah were transgressed. Then, in that case he would avenge for the sake of Allah.'' Imam Ahmad also recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah said, «إِنَّمَا بُعِثْتُ لِأُتَمِّمَ صَالِحَ الْأَخْلَاق» (I have only been sent to perfect righteous behavior.) Tafsir ibn Kathir - Surah Qalam (68) http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=68&tid=54734 __________________ iDawah.com Bringing Dawah back..to the future! http://salaf-stories.blogspot.com

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- Qatada - Ummah Under 1 Banner Status: Offline Posts: 10,379 Reputation: 41985 Rep Power: 84 Join Date: May 2005 Location: ...travelling to the hereafter.. Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply - 10-09-2008 http://idawah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=871 __________________ iDawah.com Bringing Dawah back..to the future! http://salaf-stories.blogspot.com

	(#5 (permalink))
ASeeker Account Disabled Status: Offline Posts: 29 Reputation: -263 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Sep 2008 Gender: Way of Life: Christian	Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply - 10-09-2008 So can we take it that it is permitted for a Muslim man to hit a woman?

	(#6 (permalink))
FatimaAsSideqah Status: Offline Posts: 3,627 Reputation: 10328 Rep Power: 33 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Journey to Akhirah, Insha'Allah! Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply - 10-09-2008 As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu Alhamdulillah. Jazaak'Allah Khair akhi for more clarify. __________________

	(#9 (permalink))
- Qatada - Ummah Under 1 Banner Status: Offline Posts: 10,379 Reputation: 41985 Rep Power: 84 Join Date: May 2005 Location: ...travelling to the hereafter.. Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply - 10-09-2008 it is also important to note that the woman that is hit lightly is not just a woman who does not cook or clean etc. It is concerning a wife who is lewd or doing unislamic acts (wearing halter top showing some cleavage infront of stranger guys) etc.. And it goes in steps. First admonishing her (advising her) second forsake her in bed (dontsleep with her so she knows that you are serious and that she needs Islah or reformation) and then a final stop to hit her lightly in a way that doesnt leave a mark! [i.e. with a tiny stick] __________________ iDawah.com Bringing Dawah back..to the future! http://salaf-stories.blogspot.com

	(#11 (permalink))
NYCmuslim Seeking Truth Status: Offline Posts: 154 Reputation: 1016 Rep Power: 9 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New York City, USA Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Wife beating verse [4:34] - quick and simple reply - 10-09-2008 I hope you know that the arabic root of the word "idriboohunna" ( ض ر ب), has multiple meanings which include to strike, travel, admonish, and/or avoid. This is something that should be considered when translating a word in the context of how the Quran talks about the relationship between the husband and wife in other verses. Peace __________________ *Allah never changes a Blessing that He has bestowed upon a nation until they first change themselves. And, certainly, God it is Who is Hearer, Knower.* -The Holy Quran 8:53 ---------------------------------------------- Serve Allah by serving humanity.