How do you treat an apostate?

morrissey · **How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-12-2005

Quote:

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 632:
Narrated Abu Burda:

That the Prophet sent his (i.e. Abu Burda's) grandfather, Abu Musa and Mu'adh to Yemen and said to both of them "Facilitate things for the people (Be kind and lenient) and do not make things difficult (for people), and give them good tidings, and do not repulse them and both of you should obey each other." Abu Musa said, "O Allah's Prophet! In our land there is an alcoholic drink (prepared) from barley called Al-Mizr, and another (prepared) from honey, called Al-Bit"' The Prophet said, "All intoxicants are prohibited." Then both of them proceeded and Mu'adh asked Abu Musa, "How do you recite the Quran?" Abu Musa replied, "I recite it while I am standing, sitting or riding my riding animals, at intervals and piecemeal." Muadh said, "But I sleep and then get up. I sleep and hope for Allah's Reward for my sleep as I seek His Reward for my night prayer." Then he (i.e. Muadh) pitched a tent and they started visiting each other. Once Muadh paid a visit to Abu Musa and saw a chained man. Muadh asked, "What is this?" Abu Musa said, "(He was) a Jew who embraced Islam and has now turned apostate." Muadh said, "I will surely chop off his neck!"

Given the opportunity, would you do the same? (ie, if you were in a country that routinely encouraged murdering apostates).

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · 10:41 PM

What does the narrative prove? Nothing.

It only relates a certain explanation made by Muadh.

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-12-2005

on the issue of apostasy:

Quote:

Judgement Concerning apostasy

In discussing apostasy several aspects should be considered :

First

As indicated above, entering Islam by compulsion is invalid - that is to say an individual is not considered a Muslim unless he or she enters this religion of his/her own accord, being fully aware of his/ her decision.
This attitude is adopted because Islam is confident that a sensible person will realize the perfectness and truthfulness of this religion, that it fulfills what is good for man and is in full correspondence with unalloyed natural creation.

Second

In the long history of Islam, there has been hardly any case of an apostate who abandons this religion of his own accord. In those cases when apostasy did happen, it was for one of two reasons. Some people conspired to beguile Muslims by entering Islam in the morning and leaving it in the evening. That is what Jews did at an early stage in Al-Madinah to create mistrust among believers. Having knowledge of previous scriptures, the Jews' withdrawal after entry into Islam would cause some wavering Muslims to think that the people of the scripture must have found some drawbacks in the new religion which made them reject it. The real purpose of that maneuver was sedition, to discourage people from accepting Islam or staying in it. Another reason for apostasy is the letting loose of one's desire.

Third

Abandoning Islam is considered as a rejection of the general system, since Islam is a comprehensive way of life. It delineates man's relation with his Lord as well as his relation with other human beings, such as his spouse, relatives, neighbours, and even his enemies. It is unparalleled comprehensiveness that includes rituals, relationships, penal law and judicial law. It comprises all the issues usually included in man-made laws, and goes beyond that.
Therefore, it is essential to view Islam as a comprehensive whole and not as confined only to man's relation with God, as non-Muslims regard it.

It is in the context of this that apostasy is seen to be a rejection of the general system.

Fourth

By making apostasy punishable with death two types of converts are deterred : those who accept Islam out of hypocrisy and those who do so for some material benefit. People may not accept Islam before they give their decision due reflection, and with their eyes wide open. This religion entails various heavy responsibilities and demanding rituals which a hypocrite or an insincere convert is unable to observe.

Fifth

Before accepting Islam, individuals are entirely free to enter it or not. If they prefer any other creed, they are absolutely free to do so, and they are entitled to a secure and peaceful life in a Muslim state. But once they adopt Islam, they should abide by its injunctions and all its teachings.
Let the reader reflect: Is it freedom of thought to allow a person to reject the system of society, to renounce its norms, and to create confusion among its citizens ? Is it freedom to be a traitor and to spy for the benefit of enemies ? Is it freedom to spread chaos in the length and breadth of the state and to ridicule its traditions and sanctities ? It is indeed ridiculous to expect the Muslims to tolerate such a situation. It is crazy to ask believers to guarantee a peaceful life to those who strive to desecrate their religion and to dismantle their social organization.

Therefore, we do not hesitate to say that tampering with people's faith and corrupting morality and values have become a routine work for certain groups from among the Christian missionaries, who nurse a deep-set hatred for Islam, its Book, Prophet, and believers. They save no endeavour in their effort to harm an Islamic society and to disturb its peace.

Our judgement is confirmed when we observe the disgraceful attitude of certain countries of the free world - such as France, Britain and the US - towards Muslims in those countries that display a tendency to abiding by the injunctions of their religion-by adhering, for example to an appearance that conforms to Islam. The French have been especially unreasonable in their reaction to the Islamic clothing of women , despite the terms in their laws concerning the right of every denomination to practice the teachings of their religion. But those people, on the pretext of security and protection of general order, have resorted to those disgraceful acts. It is relevant also here to recall all that befalls the Muslim minorities in Russia and Bulgaria. What has become known is outrageous; what is hidden may even be worse.

As for capital punishment for drug-related crimes, it is still sanctioned in many modern laws. Of course, the authorities which impose it regard this punishment as a strong deterrent to crime and a protection to society from its effects. No one would say that applying the death sentence in the case of such perpetrators is a violation of their freedom since their freedom has encroached upon the freedom of others, and has marred the peaceful serene life of others. Death sentence is also enforced in the case of high treason or similar convictions, and nobody would say that such punishments violate freedom. The concerned missionary institution would not criticize such practices, and that is why we question the intentions of the questioners.

ps. Bro Kadafi, perhaps this would be a good article to add, full article here:
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/i...?showtopic=664

morrissey · 12:18 AM

From what I have read above, to reject Islam is preferable if one has a different path to G-d.

Quote:

Fourth

By making apostasy punishable with death two types of converts are deterred : those who accept Islam out of hypocrisy and those who do so for some material benefit. People may not accept Islam before they give their decision due reflection, and with their eyes wide open. This religion entails various heavy responsibilities and demanding rituals which a hypocrite or an insincere convert is unable to observe.

Fifth

Before accepting Islam, individuals are entirely free to enter it or not. If they prefer any other creed, they are absolutely free to do so, and they are entitled to a secure and peaceful life in a Muslim state. But once they adopt Islam, they should abide by its injunctions and all its teachings.
Let the reader reflect: Is it freedom of thought to allow a person to reject the system of society, to renounce its norms, and to create confusion among its citizens ? Is it freedom to be a traitor and to spy for the benefit of enemies ? Is it freedom to spread chaos in the length and breadth of the state and to ridicule its traditions and sanctities ? It is indeed ridiculous to expect the Muslims to tolerate such a situation. It is crazy to ask believers to guarantee a peaceful life to those who strive to desecrate their religion and to dismantle their social organization.

Would the people in this picture who say they are muslims, are they probably really apostates? What do you do about these people, who are not adhering to this:

Quote:

Before accepting Islam, individuals are entirely free to enter it or not. If they prefer any other creed, they are absolutely free to do so, and they are entitled to a secure and peaceful life in a Muslim state.

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: ANTI-ISLAMIC LINKS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. MAKE POINTS OR ASK QUESTIONS INSTEAD. PLEASE REFER TO FORUM RULES.

Answers about such things, that you could provide, really help to dispel myths spread by Apostates, and I know the picture is graphic, but the apostates are 'spinning' their propaganda with such pictures, and this is what the west/non-muslim world is confronted with when they make enquiries about your religion.

Any enlightenment would greatly clean up the image that the western media have put into my mind (and many others) about Islam.

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-13-2005

I am not sure what you want me to clear up. Kindly restate your question.

People who are not practicing what is in the Qur'an are committing a sin and they are answerable before Allah swt, who will punish them accordingly.

Since you did post that link, its only fair that I provide you with the response to that link:
http://www.faithfreedom.com/ali_sina_exposed.html

morrissey · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-13-2005

Do you think the corrupted muslims that were in the picture should be put to death, as you would put to death an apostate?

morrissey · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-13-2005

do you ahve the full transcript of what Ali Sina said, ie the entire conversation, without edits, as your link provided only edited quotes.

this 'editing' is what the media is notorious for. we need the un-edited version for correct un-biased analysis.

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-13-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrissey

Do you think the corrupted muslims that were in the picture should be put to death, as you would put to death an apostate?

I did not care to look at the picture. But I can guess what the content was, and if someone kills another injustly, then the law of Qisas demands execution, unless the family accepts blood money.

5:32...if any one killed a person for a reason other than (delivering punishment for) murder or for spreading corruption in the land - it would be as if he killed all humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity

morrissey · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-13-2005

Well, I will describe what I saw:

So called 'muslims', in a mosque in Bangladesh, who had dragged a random hindu in off the street and beat him to death, while chanting "Death to all Muslims".

I assume these people who attend that mosque are not real muslims, but thugs who use the name of Islam to try and justify their violent passions.

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-13-2005

Then the aforementioned punishment applies to them as well.

Also, Prophet Muhammad saws said:
"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)

"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)

"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)

"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)

"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)

So your assumption would see correct.

morrissey · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-13-2005

I hope somehow you Righteous Muslims are able to eliminate these degenerates who give your faith such a bad name, very soon. They are doing you absolutely no favours by their actions.

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 04-13-2005

Indeed. May Allah swt help us.

Bassam Zawadi · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 10-15-2007

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6103974/f/Zarab...postasy_1_.pdf

aligzander · **Re: How do you treat an apostate? -** 10-24-2007

An apostate is one who embraces Islam, or in some other opinions, who is born a Muslim, and then decides to leave Islam.

As for dealing with him, there are different opinions about dealing with the apostate. Most scholars are of the opinion that he should be informed and asked to recant. If after clarification he insists on his position then he should be executed. Other scholars are of the opinion that since the Qur’an affirms freedom of religions, apostasy is left to the individual as real accountability will be in the Day of Judgment. Still other scholars, while considering apostasy as an infraction and a potential threat to the stability and integrity of an Islamic state, they do not find decisive and definitive evidence that the apostate should be executed. At most he may be subject to a discretionary punishment depending on the harm to society caused by his apostasy.

There is no single verse in the Qur’an that prescribes a worldly punishment for apostasy. The Qur’an states the punishment only in the Hereafter. However, numerous verses in the Qur’an affirm freedom of religion and reject compulsion or coercion in religion; for example, see Chapter 2, verse 256.

In hadith, however, there are some texts signifying capital punishment for apostasy. However, scholars differed about the interpretation of these texts. Some made a distinction between apostasy which coupled with fighting against Muslims, committing a capital crime or committing an act of “high treason” against the state. According to this interpretation, capital punishment is because of these crimes, not mere leaving Islam. Other scholars made no such distinction. However, the first interpretation is supported by a number of other sound hadiths which show that when a man in Madinah apostated from Islam, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) neither ordered his execution nor punished him in any other way, and when the man finally left Madinah, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never sent anyone to arrest him or punish him because of his apostasy.

If indeed the capital punishment for apostasy is a hadd (specified mandatory punishment) one would expect that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) would be the first one to implement the law of Allah.

These hdadiths are reported in Al-Bukhari, the most authentic collection of hadith, in the book of Al-Ahkaam which is found in the English translation by M. Mohsen Khan, Volume 9, hadith number 316, 318, and 323, pages 241, 242, and 246. They are also reported in Fath Al-Bari, volume 13 under Kitab Al-Ahkam, hadith number 7209, 7211, and 7216.
Dr. Jamal Badawi, Islamonline

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	(#2 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 04-12-2005 What does the narrative prove? Nothing. It only relates a certain explanation made by Muadh. __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE. Last edited by Ansar Al-'Adl; 04-12-2005 at 10:41 PM..

	(#5 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 04-13-2005 I am not sure what you want me to clear up. Kindly restate your question. People who are not practicing what is in the Qur'an are committing a sin and they are answerable before Allah swt, who will punish them accordingly. Since you did post that link, its only fair that I provide you with the response to that link: http://www.faithfreedom.com/ali_sina_exposed.html __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

	(#6 (permalink))
morrissey Member Status: Offline Posts: 70 Reputation: -19 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Apr 2005 Gender:	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 04-13-2005 Do you think the corrupted muslims that were in the picture should be put to death, as you would put to death an apostate? __________________ :rainbow: If you see what needs to be repaired and how to repair it, then you have found a piece of the world that G-d has left for you to complete. If you only see what is wrong and ugly, then it is yourself that needs repair. - Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson :rainbow:

	(#7 (permalink))
morrissey Member Status: Offline Posts: 70 Reputation: -19 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Apr 2005 Gender:	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 04-13-2005 do you ahve the full transcript of what Ali Sina said, ie the entire conversation, without edits, as your link provided only edited quotes. this 'editing' is what the media is notorious for. we need the un-edited version for correct un-biased analysis. __________________ :rainbow: If you see what needs to be repaired and how to repair it, then you have found a piece of the world that G-d has left for you to complete. If you only see what is wrong and ugly, then it is yourself that needs repair. - Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson :rainbow:

	(#9 (permalink))
morrissey Member Status: Offline Posts: 70 Reputation: -19 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Apr 2005 Gender:	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 04-13-2005 Well, I will describe what I saw: So called 'muslims', in a mosque in Bangladesh, who had dragged a random hindu in off the street and beat him to death, while chanting "Death to all Muslims". I assume these people who attend that mosque are not real muslims, but thugs who use the name of Islam to try and justify their violent passions. __________________ :rainbow: If you see what needs to be repaired and how to repair it, then you have found a piece of the world that G-d has left for you to complete. If you only see what is wrong and ugly, then it is yourself that needs repair. - Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson :rainbow:

	(#10 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 04-13-2005 Then the aforementioned punishment applies to them as well. Also, Prophet Muhammad saws said: "He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim) "Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari) "He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari) "Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi) "Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari) So your assumption would see correct. __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

	(#11 (permalink))
morrissey Member Status: Offline Posts: 70 Reputation: -19 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Apr 2005 Gender:	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 04-13-2005 I hope somehow you Righteous Muslims are able to eliminate these degenerates who give your faith such a bad name, very soon. They are doing you absolutely no favours by their actions. __________________ :rainbow: If you see what needs to be repaired and how to repair it, then you have found a piece of the world that G-d has left for you to complete. If you only see what is wrong and ugly, then it is yourself that needs repair. - Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson :rainbow:

	(#12 (permalink))
Ansar Al-'Adl Administrator Status: Offline Posts: 5,161 Reputation: 13017 Rep Power: 45 Join Date: Dec 2004 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 04-13-2005 Indeed. May Allah swt help us. __________________ The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik] Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE. Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

	(#13 (permalink))
Bassam Zawadi Limited Member Status: Offline Posts: 22 Reputation: 143 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Jun 2007 Way of Life: Undisclosed	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 10-15-2007 http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6103974/f/Zarab...postasy_1_.pdf

	(#14 (permalink))
aligzander Limited Member Status: Offline Posts: 42 Reputation: 19 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Saudi Arabia Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: How do you treat an apostate? - 10-24-2007 An apostate is one who embraces Islam, or in some other opinions, who is born a Muslim, and then decides to leave Islam. As for dealing with him, there are different opinions about dealing with the apostate. Most scholars are of the opinion that he should be informed and asked to recant. If after clarification he insists on his position then he should be executed. Other scholars are of the opinion that since the Qur’an affirms freedom of religions, apostasy is left to the individual as real accountability will be in the Day of Judgment. Still other scholars, while considering apostasy as an infraction and a potential threat to the stability and integrity of an Islamic state, they do not find decisive and definitive evidence that the apostate should be executed. At most he may be subject to a discretionary punishment depending on the harm to society caused by his apostasy. There is no single verse in the Qur’an that prescribes a worldly punishment for apostasy. The Qur’an states the punishment only in the Hereafter. However, numerous verses in the Qur’an affirm freedom of religion and reject compulsion or coercion in religion; for example, see Chapter 2, verse 256. In hadith, however, there are some texts signifying capital punishment for apostasy. However, scholars differed about the interpretation of these texts. Some made a distinction between apostasy which coupled with fighting against Muslims, committing a capital crime or committing an act of “high treason” against the state. According to this interpretation, capital punishment is because of these crimes, not mere leaving Islam. Other scholars made no such distinction. However, the first interpretation is supported by a number of other sound hadiths which show that when a man in Madinah apostated from Islam, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) neither ordered his execution nor punished him in any other way, and when the man finally left Madinah, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never sent anyone to arrest him or punish him because of his apostasy. If indeed the capital punishment for apostasy is a hadd (specified mandatory punishment) one would expect that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) would be the first one to implement the law of Allah. These hdadiths are reported in Al-Bukhari, the most authentic collection of hadith, in the book of Al-Ahkaam which is found in the English translation by M. Mohsen Khan, Volume 9, hadith number 316, 318, and 323, pages 241, 242, and 246. They are also reported in Fath Al-Bari, volume 13 under Kitab Al-Ahkam, hadith number 7209, 7211, and 7216. Dr. Jamal Badawi, Islamonline