because a women is not on the leval of a male the same way a lady can not lead sallah

Salaam

We shoudn't question why when there's clear evidence of something it should be "We Hear and We obey"

Threads merged
Br. Abrar,
Please use existing threads for the continuation of this discussion. It is unnecessary to simply repeat the same material over and over again, which was previously answered.

Please also see the debate on this topic in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...als-islam.html

Salaam,

Brother Abrar please take a look:

starting topic to re-discuss the same one 20 % warning per topic



Please search before creating a similar topic insha'Allah.

okay o forgot there already was one,sorry.I do have a poor memory.

lol Brother Abrar shushhh having poor memory is one reason why two female witnessess are required..

MashaAllah an excellent and very beneficial post brother Kadafi. JazakAllah for that.

salaam

MashaAllah an excellent thread any sis still have question, coz i know few who said why two women till i showed them the proof

jazakallah khair akhi Kadafi

Personally I'm glad there has to be two female witnesses cuz my I've got the worst memory ever! Less pressure that way!!!

lol

Allah (swt) had done this for a reason and that reason is what u jus said

SubhanAllah, true Allah knows best

A question that repeatedly arises is that concerning the 'position of women in Islâm'. Muslim scholars have been able with great success - despite the onslaught of distortion and misrepresentation - to demonstrate the true position of Muslim women; especially of women's liberation in the advent of Islâm. The Islamic ruling on issues such as inheritance, the right to earn, the right to own property etc. have reinforced this position and have been prescribed by Allâh - the One True God - long before western nations even thought of such concepts!
The issue of two women witnesses in place of one man is the concern of the present treatise. As will become clear to the sincere and objective reader, the intellectual status of a Muslim woman is neither marred nor degraded by the commandment that if two Muslim male witnesses are not available then one Muslim male and two Muslim females should be invited to witness. Rather, this injunction is in perfect harmony with the nature and psychology of the woman as will become evident through quotations from psychologists, psychiatrists and medical research.
The passage of the Qur'ân (Baqarah 2:282) in which the above-mentioned requirement is made has usury, capital and debtor difficulties as its theme. Allâh grants guidelines in matters relating to monetary obligations. Then business transactions are dealt with. In this section, the requirement to commit all transactions into writing is stated most emphatically (Reduce them to writing...). The section after this describes the responsibility of the scribe, or in modern parlance, the person responsible for drawing up the agreement. The following section describes the responsibility and the obligation of the person incurring the liability. The section after this explains how if the party that is liable cannot effectively draw up the contract - out of being deficient or weak mentally, or being unable to dictate - then his or her guardian should help draw out the contract and choose two suitable witnesses to observe. It must be understood that this situation arises if it is not possible for the liable party to draw out the contract by him/herself. The condition to put things into writing is still supreme. The next section then explains that two men should be called to witness and if two men are not available (And if there are not two men...) then a man and two women. The legislation then continues and reminds most emphatically that one should not be complacent about putting ALL agreements into writing - no matter whether these agreements are major or minor as this is more JUST in the sight of Allâh and more reliable as evidence. The passage of the Qur'ân further explains that for practical reasons it may not always be possible to commit on-the-spot agreements into writing. In this case, it is also recommended that it be witnessed. The section which follows then lays down the guidelines which should be followed in the event that no witnesses are present.
The purpose in giving the above outline is to draw attention to the fact the question of women witnesses relates, in this instance, to commercial agreements and is not a statement on their status.
Let's look at the section under investigation in more detail. Allâh said:

And get two witnesses of your own men, and if there are not two men then a man and two women such as you choose for witnesses - so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her... [Baqarah 2:182]

A number of questions (as well as eyebrows!) are raised when this section of the passage is read. The questions often posed include:
Do women have weaker memories than men?
Why should two women be needed in the place of one man?
Are women inferior to men?
One must remember that Prophet Muhammad sallâllahu 'alayhi wa sallam was neither a physiologist, a psychiatrist and nor a surgeon. He was an illiterate and could neither read nor write. He passed on the revelation exactly as he received it. Allâh, the Creator, with His infinite wisdom gave the directives best suited to humankind. He is the Creator, therefore, He knows man better than a man himself.
In this scientific age we can explore the significance of this legislation. A great deal has been discovered since the early days of Islâm. And each day of advancement brings about a better understanding of the the last and final revelation from the Creator, Allâh to the creation, humankind. As women, we are aware of the cyclical psychological strains that a woman has to encounter every month. The symptoms during early pregnancy, ante-natal and post-natal depressions, the phenomenon of menopause, the physiological and psychological problems due to infertility and last but not least the psychological problems faced after miscarriage.
It is under these situations that women can experience extraordinary psychological strains giving rise to depression, lack of concentration, slow-mindedness and short term memory loss. Let us examine these episodes in a bit more detail and with medical references from the scientific world. PMT is an umbrella term for more than 140 different symptoms and there is a lot of evidence that it causes a lot of unhappiness in many women, and consequently, to their families.
Psychiatry in Practice, April 1983 issue states:

"Forty percent of women suffer from pre-menstrual syndrome in some form and one in if our women have their lives severely disrupted by it. Dr Jill Williams, general practitioner from Bury, gives guidelines on how to recognise patients at risk and suggests a suitable treatment." [Psychiatry in Practice, April 1993, p.14]

In the same issue, George Beaumont reporting on the workshop held at the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists in London on pre-menstrual syndrome, says:

"Some authorities would argue that 80 percent of women have some degree of breast and abdominal discomfort which is pre-menstrual but that only about 10 percent complain to their doctors - and then only because of severe tenderness of the breasts and mental depression... Other authorities have suggested that pre-menstrual syndrome is a new problem, regular ovulation for 20 years or more being a phenomenon caused by 'civilisation', 'medical progress', and an altered concept of the role of women." [Psychiatry in Practice, April 1993, p.18]

In its examination of the occurrence of physical and psychological change during the period just prior to the onset of menstruation we read in Psychological Medicine:

"Many studies have reported an increased likelihood of various negative affects during the pre-menstrual period. In this affective category are many emotional designations including irritability, depression, tension, anxiety, sadness, insecurity, lethargy, loneliness, tearfulness, fatigue, restlessness and changes of mood. In the majority of studies, investigators have found it difficult to distinguish between various negative affects, and only a few have allowed themselves to be excessively concerned with the differences which might or might not exist between affective symptoms." [Psychological Medicine, Monograph Supplement 4, 1983, Cambridge University Press, p.6]

In the same article dealing with pre-menstrual behavioural changes we read:

"A significant relationship between the pre-menstrual phase of the cycle and a variety of specific and defined forms of behaviour has been reported in a number of studies. For the purpose of their review, these forms of behaviour have been grouped under the headings of aggressive behaviour, illness behaviour and accidents, performance on examination and other tests and sporting performance." [Psychological Medicine, Monograph Supplement 4, 1983, Cambridge University Press, p.7]

The lengthy review portrays how female behaviour is affected in these situations. In 'The Pre-menstrual Syndrome', C. Shreeves writes:

"Reduced powers of concentration and memory are familiar aspects of the pre-menstrual syndrome and can only be remedied by treating the underlying complaint."

This does not mean, of course, that women are mentally deficient absolutely. It just means that their mental faculties can become affected at certain times in the biological cycle. Shreeves also writes:

"As many as 80 percent of women are aware of some degree of pre-menstrual changes, 40 percent are substantially disturbed by them, and between 10 and 20 percent are seriously disabled as a result of the syndrome."

Furthermore, women face the problem of ante-natal and post-natal depression, both of which cause extreme cycles of depression in some cases. Again, these recurring symptoms naturally affect the mind, giving rise to drowsiness and dopey memory.
On the subject of pregnancy in Psychiatry in Practice, October-November 1986, we learn that:

"In an experiment 'Cox' found that 16 percent of a sample of 263 pregnant women were suffering from clinically significant psychiatric problems. Eight percent had a depressive neurosis and 1.9 percent had phobic neurosis. This study showed that the proportion of pregnant women with psychiatric problems was greater than that found in the control group but the difference only tended towards significance." [Psychiatry in Practice, October-November, 1986, p.6]

Regarding the symptoms during the post-natal cycle Dr. Ruth Sagovsky writes:

"The third category of puerperal psychiatric problems is post-natal depression. It is generally agreed that between10 to 15 percent of women become clinically depressed after childbirth. These mothers experience a variety of symptoms but anxiety, especially over the baby, irritability, and excessive fatigue are common. Appetite is usually decreased and often there are considerable sleep difficulties. The mothers lose interest in the things they enjoyed prior to the baby's birth, and find that their concentration is impaired. They often feel irrational guilt, and blame themselves for being 'bad' wives and mothers. Fifty percent of these women are not identified as having a depressive illness. Unfortunately, many of them do not understand what ails them and blame their husbands, their babies or themselves until the relationships are strained to an alarming degree." [Psychiatry in Practice, May, 1987, p.18]
" ... Making the diagnosis of post-natal depression is not always easy. Quite often the depression is beginning to become a serious problem around three months postpartum when frequent contact with the health visitor is diminishing. The mother may not present with depressed mood. If she comes to the health centre presenting the baby as the patient, the true nature of the problem can be missed. When the mother is continually anxious about the baby in spite of reassurance, then the primary health care worker needs to be aware of the possibility of depression. Sometimes these mothers present with marital difficulties, and it is easy to muddle cause and effect, viewing the accompanying low mood as part of the marital problem. Sometimes, only when the husband is seen as well does it become obvious that it is a post-natal depressive illness which has led to the deterioration in the marriage." [Psychiatry in Practice, May, 1987, p.18]*

Again there is a need to study the effects of the menopause about which very little is known even to this day. This phase in a woman's life can start at any time from the mid-thirties to the mid-fifties and can last for as long as 15 years.
Writing about the pre-menopausal years, C.B. Ballinger states:
"Several of the community surveys indicate a small but significant increase in psychiatric symptoms in women during the five years prior to the cessation of menstrual periods... The most obvious clinical feature of this transitional phase of menstrual function is the alteration in menstrual pattern, the menstrual cycle becoming shorter with age, and variability in cycle length become very prominent just prior to the cessation of menstruation. Menorrhagia is a common complaint at this time, and is associated with higher than normal levels of psychiatric disturbance." [Psychiatry in Practice, November, 1987, p.26]
On the phenomenon of menopause in an article in Newsweek International, May 25th 1992, Dr. Jennifer al-Knopf, Director of the Sex and Marital Therapy Programme of North-western University writes:

" ... Women never know what their body is doing to them ... some reporting debilitating symptoms from hot flashes to night sweat, sleeplessness, irritability, mood swings, short term memory loss, migraine, headaches, urinary inconsistence and weight gain. Most such problems can be traced to the drop-off in the female hormones oestrogen and progesterone, both of which govern the ovarian cycle. But every woman starts with a different level of hormones and loses them at different rates. The unpredictability is one of the most upsetting aspects. Women never know what their body is going to do to them ... "

Then there are the psychiatric aspects of infertility and miscarriage. On the subject of infertility, Dr. Ruth Sagovsky writes:

"Depression, anger and guilt are common reactions to bereavement. In infertility there is the added pain of there being nobody to grieve for. Families and friends may contribute to the feeling of isolation by passing insensitive comments. The gynaecologist and GPs have to try to help these couples against a backdrop of considerable distress." [Psychiatry in Practice, Winter, 1989, p.16]

On the subject of miscarriage the above article continues:

"Miscarriage is rarely mentioned when considering abortion. However, miscarriage can at times have profound psychological sequelae and it is important that those women affected receive the support they need. Approximately one-fifth of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion and the effects are poorly recognised. If however, the miscarriage occurs in the context of infertility, the emotional reaction may be severe. The level of grief will depend on the meaning of pregnancy to the couple." [Psychiatry in Practice, Winter, 1989, p.17]

Also, the fact that women are known to be more sensitive and emotional than men must not be overlooked. It is well known, for example, that under identical circumstances women suffer much greater anxiety than men. Numerous medical references on this aspect of female behaviour can be given but to quote as a specimen, we read in 'Sex Differences in Mental Health' that:

"Surveys have found different correlates of anxiety and neuroticism in the two sexes. Women and men do not become equally upset by the same things, and being upset does not have the same effect in men as in women. Ekehammer (1974; Ekehammer, Magnusson and Ricklander, 1974) using data from 116 sixteen-year-olds, did a factor analysis on self-reported anxiety. Of the eighteen different responses indicating anxiety (sweating palms, faster heart rate, and so on) females reported experiencing twelve of them significantly more often than males. Of the anxiety-producing situations studied, females reported experiencing significantly more anxiety than males reported in fourteen of them." [Katherine Blick Hoyenga and Kermit T. Hoyenga in Sex Differences in Mental Health, p.336]

It is in light of the above findings of psychologist, psychiatrists and researchers that the saying of Allâh, the Exalted:

And get two witnesses of your own men, and if there are not two men then a man and two women such as you choose for witnesses - SO THAT IF ONE OF THEM ERRS, THE OTHER CAN REMIND HER ... [Baqarah 2:182]

can be understood. One must also bear in mind that forgetfulness can be an asset. A woman has to be put up with children presenting all kinds of emotional problems and a woman is certainly known to be more resilient than man. The aim of presenting these research findings on a number of aspects related with the theme is to indicate that a woman by her biological constitution faces such problems. It does not however make her inferior to man but it does illustrate that she is different. Viewed in this way, it can only lead one to the conclusion that Allâh knows His creation the best and has prescribed precise laws in keeping with the nature of humankind.
Allâh, the Creator is - as always - All-Knowing and man (or the disbeliever in Allâh and the final, perfected, revealed way of life, Islâm) is - as usual - either ignorant and arrogant.
* As has been mentioned above the Prophet Muhammad sallâllahu 'alayhi wa sallam was neither a psychologist nor a psychiatrist. Rather, he merely conveyed the truth that was revealed to him. It is in the context of this quotation and the one before it that the following saying of the Prophet Muhammad sallâllahu 'alayhi wa sallam can be understood: "Treat your women kindly. The woman has been created from a rib, and the most curved part of a rib is its upper region. If you try to straighten it you will break it, and if you leave it as it is, it will remain curved. So treat women kindly." And in another narration: "If you try to straighten her you will break her and breaking her means divorce." [Reported by al-Bukhârî and Muslim]. This is very important advice for the man - for him to have patience and not to try to 'reform' the behavioural pattern of the woman during these times i.e. 'to straighten her'. He will not be able to do that, as it is biological in origin. Instead, he should maintain and protect his relationship with her by showing kindness.

I have a question to my brothers and sisters. Do u know why Mohammad said to one of his wifes : "nakissato aklin wa din"??? or " they are defecient in terms of their religion practices and mental abilities", and why the testimony of one man equals the testimony of two women? does this really mean degrading the mental potentialities of women? or it has another meaning?

wa salam.

well sister reading ur post i remembered a speach of an Alim the experience he got
That Alim is a teacher in a school the principal is a lady and other ladies are working in school too One day the lady who use to collect fees, came to the principal room and she was crying, where alim was already there in principal room descussing something when lady came principal tried to stop her from crying but the lady was crying on top of her voice and soon principal joined her and started crying and Alim was just stunned there watching all that after a while when both ladies stopped and principal asked the matter and what she found a receive slip number was not correct and principal was angry on her as it was not that big matter on which she has to cry

so u see a women can get emotional with others not knowing what happen, it happens unintentionally so sister that is one of the reason i see that
testimony of one man equals the testimony of two women

u can ask ur self too but u have to be true with ur self

and sister i don't find anything funny in it why ur posted is here

I think you should check this thread out sis:


Why two women witnesses?
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...witnesses.html

Salam alkoum,

first, when I learnet about the reason why one woman's testimony is not enough, I was astonished.
Secondly, i will tell the scientific reason why two woman' testimony is equal to one man testimony. I heared the explanation in Arabic from a great scholar "ZINDANI". And because I am a literay student I will try to explain to you through my own modest way.

Well, AS WE KNOW THAT OUR BRAINS IS DIVIDED INTO TWO HALVES. EACH PART HAS A FUNCTION. FOR WOMEN, BOTH THE TWO HEMISPHERES OR PARTS ARE RESPONSIBLE OF THE WOMAN'S SPEECH AS WELL AS MEMORY. ON THE OTHER HAND, MAN BRAIN IS DIVIDED TO TWO HALVES. ONE HEMISPHERE IS RESPONSIBLE OF SPEECH ALONE, AND THE OTHER HEMISPHERE IS RESPONSIBLE OF MEMORY ALONE. THATS IS TO SAY, WHEN A WOMAN TALKS, THE TWO PARTS OF HER BRAIN ARE FUNCTIONING AT THE SAME TIME, AND WHEN SHE REMEBERS SOMETING, THE TWO PARTS ARE FUNCTIONING. SO, WHEN A WOMAN IS ASKED BY A JUDGE IN A COURT, OR ASKED BY ANYONE ELSE TO TELL AND REMEMBER WHAT HAPPNED AT THE SAME TIME, THE TWO HEMISPHERES OF HER BRAIN ARE FUNCTIONING AT THE SAME TIME, AND SO THE ACT OF TELLING THE STORY MAY DISTRACT HER ATTENTION TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED EXACTLY. IN THIS CASE, IT IS BETTER TO HAVE TWO WOMEN RATHER THAN ONE. ONE WOMAN TELLS THE STORY AND RECOUNT WHAT SHE WITNESSES AND OTHER WOMAN (WHO IS A WITNESS OF THE SAME INCIDENT) LISTENS TO THE SPEECH AND USES HER MEMORY AND REMIND THE OTHER OF WHAT HAPPENS EXACTLY.

IN THIS IS MENTIONED IN THW QURAN, THAT IF ONE WOMAN FORGETS OR MISSES SOMTHING, THE SECOND WOMAN REMINDS HER. ON THE CONTRARY, WHEN A MAN RECOUNTS AND TELLS THE TRUTH, EACH HALF OF HIS BRAIN FUNCTIONS PROPERLY, BECAUSE EACH PART OF HIS BRAIN FUNCTIONS SEPERATELY.

THE FACT THAT THE TWO HEMISPHERES OF WOMAN'S BRAIN ARE BOTH RESPONSIBLE OF SPEECH DENOTES WHY WOMAN ARE MORE TALKATIVE THAN MEN.

BESIDES, WHAT IS STATED ABOVE, THE WOMEN ARE MORE EMOTIONAL THAN MEN. A WOMAN MAY HIDES SOME THINGS BECAUSE SHE MAY FEEL PITY FOR SOMEONE, WHILE MAN IS MORE RATIONAL AND HE IS NOT VERY IMPRESSED BY HIS EMOTIONS.

I KNOW I HAVE A BAD ENGLISH, BUT I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS AND TELL IT IN YOUR OWN WAY AND IN YOUR PERFECT ENGLSIH. IM AFTER ALL ARABIC AND MY ENGLISH IS NOT LIKE ENGLISH PEOP