Use of 'Infidel' and 'Kafir'

Osman · **Use of 'Infidel' and 'Kafir' -** 08-21-2005

Greetings Root,

Quote:

Originally Posted by root

Also, again this site reffered to me as a Kaafirs, Getting tired of that racist remark.

Well, it depends on how you take it. It is not always intended in a racist manner. Sometimes it is just used to denote a non muslim.

Ra`eesah

Peace be to those who follow the guidance, and may the Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon His final Prophet Muhammad, and to proceed..

The Arabic word known as "Kafir" is not a racist comment nor is it a slander. The word "KAFIR" is used loosely and most of the time misunderstood.

looking at the word "KAFIR" we see that it derives from the arabic root word KAFARA meaning "denier" or "concealer."

According to the arabic lexicon a Farmer would be called a "Kafir" because he plants the seeds and "Covers" them with soil.

In Quran this term has also been used for all those who hide things thou they are knowing its truthfulness. Any one who will not act according to the laws of Almighty they commit kufr.

So the kafir denies the existence of Reality and covers over the truth So its not a "racist remark" its just that the term "Kafir" is used to describe those who have "Disbelieved" in the message of Islam (i.e. the prophethood of Muhammad, the Qur'an being God's book and the Oneness of Allah). So I ask you do you believe that Allah is the One true God, and that Muhammad is His final Messenger and Prophet? Do you believe that the Qur'an is the flawless book revealed by Allah the Almighty Lord of the Worlds to His final Prophet Muhammad, through the Angel Gabriel?

If you answer is no to all or any one of these questions then you have "Kaffired in Islam", you are "rejecting" "denying" " concealing" Or, in more understandable transliteration, "You are a Kafir"

Ra`eesah · 04:08 PM

Just an interesting fact that i'd like to bring to your attention, that the english word "Cover" has infact undoubtedly derived from the arabic word "Kafir".

Allow me to explain why.

The "Ka" of "Kafir" sounds very similar to the "Co" of "Cover" when pronounced. - The only difference is that the sound changes from "KA" to "KO" when the vocal chords in your throat are positioned accordingly, without even having to move a muscle in your face to be able to change the sound.

The "F" in the word "Kafir" is very similar to the letter "V" in Cover - When pronouning the "F" in Kafir or the "V" in "Cover", notice that your front teeth come in contact with your botton lip, and you are able to switch from the "F" sound to the "V" sound without having to re-adjust the position of your teeth or lip. Another example we can use is the word "OF" notice that its spelled with the letter F and not V even though when pronounced its quite the contrary.

The "ER" in Cover also sounds very similar to the "IR" in "Kafir" - Note that the "E" and the "I" are very similar in pronounciation, and a few similarities between the two letters are:

1) They used together in many english words such as "FrIEnd" and "ScIEnce"
2) When you pronounce words such as "Position" it sounds like "Posishen", thus the similarity in pronounciation of the "E" in "Cover" and "I" in Kafir.

And needless to say, the final letter of the two words are identical, both being "R"

An important note to bring to your attention is the fact that the English language has been in use for only the past 1000 years (According to dictionaries and encyclopedias http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=english), where the Arabic language has been around for 1425 years. Obviously we conclude from this fact that that the word "Cover" did not even exist when the arabs were saying "Kafir".
After reading all of this evidence, does it leave any doubt in your mind that the English word Cover is derived from the Arabic word Kafir? Contemplate over it.

A final note to the non-Muslims here, research all of this for yourself and research the message of Islam, so that you may have peace with yourself and peace with the One who has created you out of nothing, and has made you into the perfectly modelled Human Being that you are, and who has blessed you with all of your 5 senses. He asks nothing of you but to worship Him the way He has commanded you to worship Him, for He is the Most Great, Most Wise and Most Merciful to His devout servant.

Osman

There are, in fact a variety of English words of Arabic Origin. You can find those here

root

Quote:

Well, it depends on how you take it. It is not always intended in a racist manner. Sometimes it is just used to denote a non muslim.

You mean like describing a black person "******"!

Quote:

In Quran this term has also been used for all those who hide things thou they are knowing its truthfulness. Any one who will not act according to the laws of Almighty they commit kufr.

I don't know about you but I would call that person a "Lier".....

Quote:

After reading all of this evidence, does it leave any doubt in your mind that the English word Cover is derived from the Arabic word Kafir? Contemplate over it

Like a cover up, a Lie.

What about the Haram question?

Osman

Quote:

Originally Posted by root

You mean like describing a black person "******"!

The word ****** by definition is derogatory and offensive. The word Kaafir however can have different connotations depending on the way it is used. In a religion sense it means non-muslim but people sometimes adapt it's meaning to be a form of name-calling.

Ra`eesah · 05:49 PM

Assalamu'Alaykum

Ajeeb the word "cover" is not there... maybe i should write to them, anyhow root call them a liar fine now define the term LIAR?

A LIE is a statement that deviates from or perverts the truth

A LIAR Someone who HIDES the TRUTH....

and a liar who lies agains Allah and His messenger is considered a "Kafir" i.e. a "Disbeliever"

czgibson · 06:41 PM

Greetings everyone,
We've got some linguistic analysis creeping into the thread - I work with the English language in my job, so I hope you don't mind if I chip in here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3washey

After reading all of this evidence, does it leave any doubt in your mind that the English word Cover is derived from the Arabic word Kafir? Contemplate over it.

I can say I still have some doubts, as the word seems to have European roots. Have a look at this etymology of "cover", from Dictionary.com:

[Middle English coveren, from Old French covrir, from Latin cooperre, to cover completely : co-, intensive pref.; see co- + operre, to cover; see wer-4 in Indo-European Roots.]

Was the word "kafir" around before Latin? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know.)

The word "******" has a straightforward root in the Latin word "niger", meaning "black". It originated as a purely descriptive term (as in the name of the country Nigeria), but has relatively recently become used as a term of abuse. So here again it seems that the definition of the word itself is not insulting, but its use can be.

3washey, thanks for the message to non-Muslim members - it shows a kind and tolerant spirit.

Peace

**Muezzin**

Er.. What was the topic of this thread again?

czgibson

Hi Muezzin,

Sorry I've gone a bit off-topic there, but I think it's still (tenuously) related to the original question....

Peace

**Muezzin**

Peace Czgibson,

I wasn't referring to you in particular, rather this entire linguistic tangent. Hmm...

I believe the answer to the original question was given in the second post.

root

So we consider 3Washy small print:

Quote:

and a liar who lies agains Allah and His messenger is considered a "Kafir" i.e. a "Disbeliever"

then we see:

Quote:

The word ****** by definition is derogatory and offensive. The word Kaafir however can have different connotations depending on the way it is used. In a religion sense it means non-muslim but people sometimes adapt it's meaning to be a form of name-calling

then finally:

Quote:

The word "******" has a straightforward root in the Latin word "niger", meaning "black". It originated as a purely descriptive term (as in the name of the country Nigeria), but has relatively recently become used as a term of abuse. So here again it seems that the definition of the word itself is not insulting, but its use can be.

Is the word "Infidel" justifiable, if the word "Kaafir" is............

Afterall, "Kaafir" is racially aggrovating just like calling someone an Infidel.

**Ansar Al-'Adl**

Quote:

Originally Posted by root

Also, again this site reffered to me as a Kaafirs, Getting tired of that racist remark.

What makes 'kaafir' a racist remark? Which 'race' is it discriminating against? What is the difference between 'kaafir' and 'non-muslim'?

- Qatada -

Thats kinda funi cz the definition for the word infidel is " One who has no religious beliefs."

source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=infidel

Ra`eesah

Quote:

Originally Posted by czgibson

Greetings everyone,
We've got some linguistic analysis creeping into the thread - I work with the English language in my job, so I hope you don't mind if I chip in here.

I can say I still have some doubts, as the word seems to have European roots. Have a look at this etymology of "cover", from Dictionary.com:

[Middle English coveren, from Old French covrir, from Latin cooperre, to cover completely : co-, intensive pref.; see co- + operre, to cover; see wer-4 in Indo-European Roots.]

Was the word "kafir" around before Latin? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know.)

The word "******" has a straightforward root in the Latin word "niger", meaning "black". It originated as a purely descriptive term (as in the name of the country Nigeria), but has relatively recently become used as a term of abuse. So here again it seems that the definition of the word itself is not insulting, but its use can be.

3washey, thanks for the message to non-Muslim members - it shows a kind and tolerant spirit.

Peace

753 BC was the traditional date of the founding of the city of Rome by Romulus. At this stage, Latin is the language spoken by several thousand people in and near Rome. However latin became a literary language in the 6th 7th century BC.

The word Kfar ( The Village) exsists in the hebrew language,

1. Hebrew existest long before Latin - approximately 3500 B.C.

2. Hebrew and Arabic are Semitic languages ( therefore if Kfar means Village in Hebrew, then we can alsoaccept that Kafir in Arabic means Farmer)

from this chart we can conculed that the word COVER ( the 8th word on the chart) originated from the Hebrew language and later on adopted by latin.

Quote:

Was the word "kafir" around before Latin? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know.)

So the answer is- Yes Kafir DiD exsist before latin.

	(#2 (permalink))
Ra`eesah UmmLuqmann Status: Offline Posts: 1,487 Reputation: 4570 Rep Power: 29 Join Date: Apr 2005 Way of Life: Muslim	Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike - 08-21-2005 Peace be to those who follow the guidance, and may the Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon His final Prophet Muhammad, and to proceed.. The Arabic word known as "Kafir" is not a racist comment nor is it a slander. The word "KAFIR" is used loosely and most of the time misunderstood. looking at the word "KAFIR" we see that it derives from the arabic root word KAFARA meaning "denier" or "concealer." According to the arabic lexicon a Farmer would be called a "Kafir" because he plants the seeds and "Covers" them with soil. In Quran this term has also been used for all those who hide things thou they are knowing its truthfulness. Any one who will not act according to the laws of Almighty they commit kufr. So the kafir denies the existence of Reality and covers over the truth So its not a "racist remark" its just that the term "Kafir" is used to describe those who have "Disbelieved" in the message of Islam (i.e. the prophethood of Muhammad, the Qur'an being God's book and the Oneness of Allah). So I ask you do you believe that Allah is the One true God, and that Muhammad is His final Messenger and Prophet? Do you believe that the Qur'an is the flawless book revealed by Allah the Almighty Lord of the Worlds to His final Prophet Muhammad, through the Angel Gabriel? If you answer is no to all or any one of these questions then you have "Kaffired in Islam", you are "rejecting" "denying" " concealing" Or, in more understandable transliteration, "You are a Kafir" __________________ .::.P e r p l e x i t i e s of L i f e .::.

	(#3 (permalink))
Ra`eesah UmmLuqmann Status: Offline Posts: 1,487 Reputation: 4570 Rep Power: 29 Join Date: Apr 2005 Way of Life: Muslim	Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike - 08-21-2005 Just an interesting fact that i'd like to bring to your attention, that the english word "Cover" has infact undoubtedly derived from the arabic word "Kafir". Allow me to explain why. The "Ka" of "Kafir" sounds very similar to the "Co" of "Cover" when pronounced. - The only difference is that the sound changes from "KA" to "KO" when the vocal chords in your throat are positioned accordingly, without even having to move a muscle in your face to be able to change the sound. The "F" in the word "Kafir" is very similar to the letter "V" in Cover - When pronouning the "F" in Kafir or the "V" in "Cover", notice that your front teeth come in contact with your botton lip, and you are able to switch from the "F" sound to the "V" sound without having to re-adjust the position of your teeth or lip. Another example we can use is the word "OF" notice that its spelled with the letter F and not V even though when pronounced its quite the contrary. The "ER" in Cover also sounds very similar to the "IR" in "Kafir" - Note that the "E" and the "I" are very similar in pronounciation, and a few similarities between the two letters are: 1) They used together in many english words such as "FrIEnd" and "ScIEnce" 2) When you pronounce words such as "Position" it sounds like "Posishen", thus the similarity in pronounciation of the "E" in "Cover" and "I" in Kafir. And needless to say, the final letter of the two words are identical, both being "R" An important note to bring to your attention is the fact that the English language has been in use for only the past 1000 years (According to dictionaries and encyclopedias http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=english), where the Arabic language has been around for 1425 years. Obviously we conclude from this fact that that the word "Cover" did not even exist when the arabs were saying "Kafir". After reading all of this evidence, does it leave any doubt in your mind that the English word Cover is derived from the Arabic word Kafir? Contemplate over it. A final note to the non-Muslims here, research all of this for yourself and research the message of Islam, so that you may have peace with yourself and peace with the One who has created you out of nothing, and has made you into the perfectly modelled Human Being that you are, and who has blessed you with all of your 5 senses. He asks nothing of you but to worship Him the way He has commanded you to worship Him, for He is the Most Great, Most Wise and Most Merciful to His devout servant. __________________ .::.P e r p l e x i t i e s of L i f e .::. Last edited by Ra`eesah; 08-21-2005 at 04:08 PM..

	(#4 (permalink))
Osman Account Disabled Status: Offline Posts: 3,571 Reputation: 16416 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Warrington, England Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims ali - 08-21-2005 There are, in fact a variety of English words of Arabic Origin. You can find those here

	(#7 (permalink))
Ra`eesah UmmLuqmann Status: Offline Posts: 1,487 Reputation: 4570 Rep Power: 29 Join Date: Apr 2005 Way of Life: Muslim	Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike - 08-21-2005 Assalamu'Alaykum Ajeeb the word "cover" is not there... maybe i should write to them, anyhow root call them a liar fine now define the term LIAR? A LIE is a statement that deviates from or perverts the truth A LIAR Someone who HIDES the TRUTH.... and a liar who lies agains Allah and His messenger is considered a "Kafir" i.e. a "Disbeliever" __________________ .::.P e r p l e x i t i e s of L i f e .::. Last edited by Ra`eesah; 08-21-2005 at 05:49 PM..

	(#9 (permalink))
Muezzin GET TO DA CHOPPA Status: Offline Posts: 9,048 Reputation: 26497 Rep Power: 64 Join Date: Jun 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike - 08-21-2005 Er.. What was the topic of this thread again? __________________ Pay a visit to the masters of might, magic and Monday mornings Fedora-sporting userpage 'Credit crunch sounds like a breakfast cereal'

	(#10 (permalink))
czgibson Human Agent Status: Online Posts: 2,215 Reputation: 5243 Rep Power: 29 Join Date: Jul 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Atheist	Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike - 08-21-2005 Hi Muezzin, Sorry I've gone a bit off-topic there, but I think it's still (tenuously) related to the original question.... Peace

	(#11 (permalink))
Muezzin GET TO DA CHOPPA Status: Offline Posts: 9,048 Reputation: 26497 Rep Power: 64 Join Date: Jun 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike - 08-21-2005 Peace Czgibson, I wasn't referring to you in particular, rather this entire linguistic tangent. Hmm... I believe the answer to the original question was given in the second post. __________________ Pay a visit to the masters of might, magic and Monday mornings Fedora-sporting userpage 'Credit crunch sounds like a breakfast cereal'

	(#14 (permalink))
- Qatada - Ummah Under 1 Banner Status: Offline Posts: 10,379 Reputation: 41985 Rep Power: 84 Join Date: May 2005 Location: ...travelling to the hereafter.. Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims alike - 08-22-2005 Thats kinda funi cz the definition for the word infidel is " One who has no religious beliefs." source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=infidel __________________ iDawah.com Bringing Dawah back..to the future! http://salaf-stories.blogspot.com