Exactly they only see it as a unfortunate consequence of waging war in order to establish a Islamic state.
The objective is not to kill woman and children , the objective is to stop what they consider oppression and to establish a Islamic state.

Hi Cherub.


Earlier on, in post #10 (A Religion of Terror) - you said:



Do you think that war is supposed to be friendly, where one side tell's the opposition when their going to attack? If the enemies camped near the muslim's, don't you feel that they could do the attack at any moment too?

So what should someone do in that situation? The simple answer is, you fight to defend yourself, before the enemy attack's you first.


If the context of the hadith is how you explained it, then if a person is in a similar situation - they have to fight back, even if it's in the dark - which mean's that it may lead to the killing of women and children.



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.

LOL, yes flying planes into buildings is really an effective way of conquering, rather it gets the Islamic countries occupied...

Exactly. Attacking civilians intentionally is stratigically useless unless you have nukes or something.

I would also like to add something else, most scholars who agree with the tactic of suicide bombings , say that this is not suicide.
Because the objective is to kill the enemy not to kill one self.

yes but these bombings which I personally don't call suicide bombings are a means of self defense.

i think its wrong to do it in a place where its only civilians

i find it right to do it targeting tanks and the fighters

The objective of terrorist suicide bombings is to kill innocent people intentionally, which is forbidden. Attacking armies via this means is a different matter, which I will not go into.

Of course but when these terrorists target civilians , they consider them enemy combatants because they pay and support the armies and governments which cause what they consider oppression.

Take for example the bombings in Madrid and London.
Also they consider Muslims who live in the West to be like them.
Because they also pay taxes and the like.

Westerners can't help pay taxes. It's not their fault that they are supporting the armies.

who said that was correct?

I think they take it from the Qu'ran or hadith.
I recall there being a verse which says something like
if one lives with the non believers he is one of them.
Also there is a clear order in the Qu'ran that one is obligated to wage Jihad if and when the Islamic state is under attack.
They consider you like the people that stayed behind in Medina when Muhammed marched out for some battle with the Romans.

The hadeeth “I have nothing to do with every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen” may be interpreted as referring to those who cannot practise their religion openly in the place where they settle, and those who are able to practise their religion openly are not included in this hadeeth.


http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...g%20mushrikeen



We don't have an islamic state anywhere in the world today.



It was an obligation upon the believer's at that time to make hijrah to Medinah, because there was an islamic state. We don't have one.



Allaah Almighty know's best.



Peace.

The real question i think everyone should ask himself is in what way can we stop this bloodshed from happening?
It's like you have two choices.

1. You destroy Islam, totally and completely.
2. You allow the establishment in all current and former Muslim lands of Taliban like states.

But the question at 2 is will that actually stop these people from fighting non-Muslims and Muslim and extending what they consider the only just and proper way to live?
I think we can safely say no it would not stop them because Islam is meant to rule the entire earth.
So even if you do not consider Islam a religion of terror, and do not agree with a Taliban like form of Islam.
They sure do, and thats if i may say so a frightful thing indeed.

Muslim's class the introducing of democracy a form of terror because first of all, the muslim's are seeing their own family member's being killed - so that they can 'enjoy' democracy.


Secondly, the people in the west are actually realising that their voice isn't being heard by the 'democratic' governments - because whenever they do any form of rally to stop the war, the government chooses to ignore them and go against the public anyway, even though - this is what democracy's supposed to be.


Thirdly, muslim's love islaam and they choose to follow it because the law within islaam is just, for all people. You can read about how islaam gave freedom to the people who were oppressed, how islaam break's the barrier between the rich and the poor etc. whereas this is the norm in society today, even though not all people realise this.


Islamic History
http://www.load-islam.com/indepth.php?topic_id=12


I really hope you look into that, because it explain's how when islamic law was implemented within a nation - prosperity and justice was widespread.



Allaah Almighty know's best.


Peace.

There are different views on what you are talking about here

http://www.islamonline.net/english/C...rticle02.shtml

This article addresses that...I think you should read it...

as far as what you are saying concerning Suicide Bombing, a particular scholar that supports what is going on in Palestine, that is the same scholar that wrote what is in the link.