But is that a cultural issue of a religious issue?

None of them wore pants, or used zippers, or traveled by airplane.

Just because they could have done something but didn't, how does that make it prohibitted for everyone else?

Muhammad (May Allah's Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) specifically prescribed the beard so it is a completely different matter and the Qur'aan speaks of obeisance to the him just so you know.

So, help me to be sure I understand.

You are saying that it SHOULD be forbidden. Not that it presently actually IS forbidden.

Do I understand you correctly?

And yet today, I watch on TV as Turkey’s top Islamic cleric, Religious Affairs Director Ali Bardakoglu, greeted the Pope. Bardakoglu wore only a full mustache, no beard. In fact I saw only one person out of hundreds of faces that had a beard, and this man was a member of the Pope's Vatican staff.

I'm just telling you the facts, what people do with their own facial hair is good or bad for themselves...matter of fact Muhammad (Peace and Blessings of Allah be Upon Him) said to also trim the mustache and let the beard grow..

Yes, I understand that those are the facts as you best understand them. Surely, I do not think you are either lying or making this up.

What I don't understand is how someone who I would assume to be both an authority on Islam and a pious Muslim would then in such a publical behave in a way that contradicts what you say to be the facts. Thus far, the only way I can reconcile these inherent contradictions is to conclude:

1) That Bardakoglu may be the chief Muslim cleric of Turkey, he may be the Religous Affairs Director, but in reality he is NOT a good Muslim, because he doesn't practice true Islam, but picks and chooses those area where he will be obedient to the Qur'an, and those area where he prefers to not obey.

2) That Bardakoglu may hold all of these high offices in Islam and be a respected religious leader of his country (which is 99% Muslim), but he really doesn't know Islam or he wouldn't do such a haraam thing as to shave his beard.

3) Despite the clear refutations given on this board, I have misunderstood, and Islam doesn't really care if you shave your beard or not.

4) Despite the evidence that has been cited here, it is not a uniform interpretation within the Ummah, and others who are just a pious as the brothers represented here understand these injunctions regarding shaving one's beard differently than has been presented thus far.

Thus are the options I can come up with. I have a hard time being so jaded or cynical as to believe that either options #1 or #2 are true. I might tend to think that #3 is what is happening, except that those who speak about NOT shaving the beard have written in clear and unambigous English, and the point has been reiterated by more than one poster. Thus leaving me with only option #4 as seeming to be plausible at the moment. However, perhaps you have another way to resolve this apparent contradiction? If so, I would interested in learning it.

they are person who is genetically can't produce any beard or moustache

Salamaleikum so we should the beard grow. Right

Im just confused because my parents tell me to shave and I didn't feel right to shave. I didn't have a beard but I wanted to have a beard. My parents are Muslims and they don't believe that it is haraam to shave.

So, I need to add a #5.

#5. The person does not shave, but still never grows a beard.


Thanks, I had missed that one. However, I hardly doubt that is the case with Barakoglu. He has a thick mustache, plus I thought I saw "5 o'clock shadow". Or is this a condition that happens to be true of all Turks?

^We cant tell you why this guy in specific shaves.

But we can tell you that many, many Muslims are ignorant on this topic and that they all think beards are only recommended and not obligatory (if it can be grown that is), whereas the reality of the situation is that it is haram to shave.

Dear Grace Seeker,

The fact of the matter is that some Muslims take it upon themselves to say that growing the beard is not a command, as you have seen we have Muslims who even don't accept Ahadeeth, sayings of our Prophet, peace be upon him, why? Because they tend to, and this is a rule of thumb, find something they disagree with and reject it, similarly with the beard, alot of Muslims seem to read one or two Ahadeeth and say "Ah, its not mandatory!"

For example, over at a Muslim website a brother has posted this and made his 'personal' views very clear.

Prophet Muhammad ordered Muslims to grow beards. But why?

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him ordered Muslims to grow beards, because he didn't want them to look like the Pagans. It was important back then for Muslims to look different than the Pagans for both security and cultural reasons. By making it easier for Muslims to distinguish each others easily, it would certainly enforce safety and security among them. Also, by making Muslims be different than everyone else, it would certainly help them to give up their old Pagan traditions that they were raised with, especially when they're different than everyone else.

And the thing goes on and on, but I do have to say taht this brother, I do believe is neither an thorough student of knowlege nor a scholar. So this is what happens, people take a couple of hadeeth and then make up their own mind.

Am sure you are aware that in Islam we tend to look upto scholars, not blind follow them, but since they spend their life on studying our religion, it is likely that they will have a wider picture, and unlikely that they would produce a ruling based on a small part of the picture by mistakes as me or you would do from only having seen a couple of statements.

The fact that the Prophet, peace be upon him, orders us, if I am not mistaken makes it compulsry, unless someone can provide a solid reason for it not being compulsry, this is touched upon by Student of Knowledge Yasir Qadhi, in Sciences of Fiqh, I think it is.

Personally if someone told me this, then I would just tell them that the Qu'ran says, if I am not mistaken, "Fast that you may attain taqwa" so would that mean that someone can say 'I don't have to fast today, I've got enough taqwa' or the Qu'ran says, again if I'm not mistaken, "Salah prevents wrong doing" or something like that, so is it again ok for someone to say 'Don't pray salah its only there to prevent you from wrong doing, if you don't do any other wrong then you can avoid praying it'

(someone tell me if I got the quotes wrong, cos Im quoting partially from memory)

I hope this kinda makes sense.

Eesa.

Eesa, It makes a great deal of sense. Certainly we have similar issues in Christianity. There are those who read everything literally and as divine command for all people at all times, those who read everything figuratively and as if only intended for the one specific audience who first read the letter or received the prophecy, and then all sorts of people inbetween trying to figure out which verses are meant to be applied universally to all situations and which verses are meant to be applied to particularl situations.

But, as you said, you have scholars who study this. And you have an Ummah where the community is supposed to think in one accord. This man, is the chief cleric of a country of millions of Muslims. Assuming he is both studied and pious, and I have no reason to think otherwise, give his position. Surely, he would know and keep these things if they were as true as everyone says they are here.

To me it seems that according to what you are saying, this leader of the nation of Turkey's Muslims citizenry, is doing the equivalent of eating ham for a noon meal in the middle of Ramadan. That just doesn't make sense.