Comments on 'Alleged internal contradictions' thread

[Ibn Syed]

When are you gonna get back to work Sheikh Haroon? I haven't seen you for weeks.

[Danish]

Mashalalh brother

[Sheikh Haroon]

Salaam Brother Ibn Syed.

I pray that you are well, and im honoured that you mentioned me.

When are you gonna get back to work Sheikh Haroon? I haven't seen you for weeks.

InshaAllah, ill try and come around more often, but as you may know, i am more of a regular at Understanding Islam ~ over there i can learn more from others as they are all wise, old men. But, ill try my best here too.

May Allah be with you and me.

Regards

[jameeluddin]

Aoa
Very insightful comment brother ansar, keep it up

[Ibn Syed]

Yes, keep up the great work!

[Al-Mu'minah]

Assalaamu Alaykum wr wb

!) Brother (Ansar Al-'Adl) do you mind if i use the answers to some of these Alleged Contradictions in the Qur'an?? I.e Post it in another site insha Allah

2) These are some other Alleged Contradictions in the Qur'an;


Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

•"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
•"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
•"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
•"When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).


Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?


•"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him):
•"Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
•"Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

•"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
•"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
•"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

•"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
•"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
•"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
•
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).


Can brothers and sisters help me answer them?

Jazakallahu Khayraan

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Originally Posted by Jannah

Assalaamu Alaykum wr wb

!) Brother (Ansar Al-'Adl) do you mind if i use the answers to some of these Alleged Contradictions in the Qur'an?? I.e Post it in another site insha Allah

You can use any of the ones that have been posted on the main site here:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal...contradictions
With regards to the others, you are welcome to use the points I mentioned, I would just prefer if you didn't copy it word for word.

2) These are some other Alleged Contradictions in the Qur'an

I've seen these ones before as well, I believe they're already in my list. I'm going in order so I'll eventually get to them soon insha'Allah. But if you like, I'll give you a brief explanation for each.

Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

•"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
•"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).

These two verses use the word badala, to reverse, in reference to God's decision's and promises. This is how the Qur'anic commentator's and translators have interpreted this. Menaing that if God has decreed that victory will come for the believers (the verse iss actually said to be referring to the conquest of Makkah), then no one can change that decree.

•"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
•"When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).

The word used in these verses are naskh and not badala. It is a completely different concept. Here it refers to when God first gives a ruling for a certain time period, and then the situation changes so God reveals a new ruling. Its not because God has changed His decree, its about revelaing a ruling specific to that situation. God always intended from the beginning to give a different ruling, so its not that he changed His decree or changed His mind. His decree was that He would send one ruling, and then abrogate it with another. The decree has never changed.

Alternative responses:
http://www.answering-christianity.co...abrogation.htm
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...nal/qi025.html

Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?


•"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him):
•"Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
•"Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

The answer here is quite simple. God didn't save pharoah, He preserved his body as a sign for later generations. Please read here:
http://understanding-islam.com/relat...=72&sscatid=89
http://understanding-islam.com/relat...100&sscatid=89
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...nal/qi018.html
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...nal/qi025.html

The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

•"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
•"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
•"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

If I'm watching a basketball game, and someone asks, "Who scored the first goal?" I would naturaly respond within the context of the specific game. It would not be contradictory if I later mentioned that so-and-so was the first person to score a basketball in the history of the NBA.

So it all depends on the context. Every Prophet can be described as the first Muslim, but we know that the angels are also Muslims! In fact, all remaining creation is Muslim! So it all depends on the context of the statement. I could also say that Khadija was the first Muslim because she was the first to believe in the Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

It should also be noted that each of them lived at a different time, and revived a new generation of Muslims.

Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

•"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
•"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
•"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
•
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

These verses and many more have been answered in my latest post in ther thread "What is Jihaad?". The article is entitled "Commonly Misquoted Verses and Narrations" and it demonstrates that none of these verses contradict the principle of no compulsion. Both refer to different cases.

These are just my brief responses. Insha'Allah, when I arrive at these allegations in the list, I will provide a fully detailed article for each with quotations from various scholars, insha'Allah.

I hope this helps.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Jannah

Can brothers and sisters help me answer them?

Jazakallahu Khayraan

How do you expect to be helped? Which forum is this, you want to use the quotes you are requesting?

Frankly this is nothing new and all of us have answered these thousands of times. But some people are born stupid and refuse to change. They just copy and paste it old non-sense from Christian missionary website/s, thinking of them as scholars.

However if you ask them right questions before even answering it all, I bet they will disappear.

First, you should refuse to accept the English translation of the Qur'an, it is not the word of Allah; revealed upon our beloved Prophet (SAW). It is rather the word of man based on his or her understanding. Most translators are not even Muslims and almost all of them are not Islamic scholars.

Second, insist discussing this according to Arabic grammar, idioms, verbal illustrations and phraseology.

These two precautions guarantees victory over these bigots before you even come down to the facts.

If they bring (quote) Hadith, do the same and demand to present the classification of the Hadith, it’s Asbabul-Hadith and complete chain of narrators.

Trust me you have by now bruised their ego and shattered their dream to keep you on the run, before you even come to actual issue. They are plain imbecile and falsifiers.

Regards

[Al-Mu'minah]

Assalaamu Alaykum

Barakallahu Feek Brother Ansar Al-'Adl. Alhamdulilaah that helped brother. Insha Allah i look forward to the fully detailed article.


Preacher....hmmm...i think i know where your coming from...these quotes where quoted from i Christain website...indeed its nothing new but it helps to clear up the misunderstanding.

Wa Salaamu Alaykum.

[WHARFE]

Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

the qur'aan FROM THE VERY BEGGINING , delclared that if one REJECTS a MESSENGER DURING HIS LIFE TIME , would face the punishment in THIS LIFE as wel as the next life. the qur'aan argues that one is given the choice to believe , but that this choice bears a responsibility.if a person comes before God and argues that he was given a choice to accept or reject , it would not absolve him of the consequences ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT.In the SAME MANNER , think OF THE PERIOD OF A RASOOL AS A MINIATURE VERSION OF THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT except THAT IT IS CONFINED to that GROUP OF PPL WHO LIVED DURING THE TIME OF THE RASOOL. just as men are given a choice to accept or reject the messenger, this does not absolve them from the worldly consequences in thisl ife, as well as the punishment in the next liufe for thier rejection.

thus, it is not compulsion becuase THE PERIOD IN WHICH THE PU8NISHMENT WAS INFLICTED WAS ONE WHERE GOD HIMSELF HAD DELCARED THEM AS KAAFIR THROUGH REVELATION, AND WORTHY OF HIS PUNISHEMNT.IT IS NOT AN ISSUE OF FORCED CONVERSION, BUT A PUNSIHMENT OF GOD INFLICTED.

Ask yourself , do you think that WHEN GOD SENT DOWN STONES ON THE PPL OF LUT FOR THIER REJECTION, WAS IT COMPULSION WHEN THEY WERE DECLARING , UPON WITNESSEING THE JUSTICE MANIFEST ITSELF, THAT THYE BELEIVED? DO You think when GOD WAS DROWING phirown , and phirown relaised the TRUTH and said I BELEIVE , WAS IT COMPULSION?DID God accept his declaration of faith?

If God accepted compulsion , why didn't he accept phirowns declaration or the ppl of luut> it was not a maater of compulsion , but it was PUNISHMENT MANISFESTED.

tell your friend to visit this website

http://www.gastrich.org/

[WHARFE]

Can somebody please explain the concept of abrogation in Islam? If verse A
is better than B it follows that B is worse than A ... How could they both
be perfect? Did God make a mistake ? Where the Qur'an says "None can
change the words of God", does this include God himself ? WHY did God
change some of the verses, why not just send the final version in the first
place ?

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...coring=d&hl=en

[Aziz]

what are these abrogations of the Quran?Heck I don't know what abrogation means.

Does this abrogation include the Satanic Verses?

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz

what are these abrogations of the Quran?Heck I don't know what abrogation means.

Abrogation means Allah swt sends a certain ruling for a specific situation, and then after the situation of the Muslims changed, Allah SWT sent another ruling for the new situation, so the previous ruling is no longer followed.

Does this abrogation include the Satanic Verses?

Satanic verses have been dealt with in another thread in this forum. The story is fabricated.

[Aziz]

oh thanks.And what were these abrogations in the prophet's time?

[WHARFE]

Keeping these points in perspective, let us take a look at one of the examples abrogation in the Qur'an. Al-Anfaal 8: 65 says:



Prophet, rouse these believers to fight [the rejecters and remember that] if there are ten steadfast [believers,] they shall overpower a hundred [rejecters] and if there are a hundred [steadfast believers,] they shall overpower a thousand of those, who have rejected....

This verse, promises God's help for the believers over the rejecters of the Prophet (pbuh). As a corollary of the promise entailed in this verse, it was the responsibility of the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) to fight the rejecters, even under circumstances where their power ratio was one-to-ten, as compared to their enemies.

However, subsequently, when a vast area of the Arabian Peninsula accepted Islam and a number of comparatively weak people joined its ranks, the foregoing verse and the responsibility entailed in it was abrogated. In the Qur'an, the abrogating verse is placed immediately after the referred verse. Al-Anfaal 8: 66 reads:



Now, God has reduced [the responsibility] upon you. As He is aware that [now] there are weak among you. Therefore, [now] if there are a hundred steadfast among you, they shall overpower two hundred [rejecters] and if there are a thousand [steadfast] among you, they shall overpower two thousand, with the permission of God. Indeed, God is with the steadfast.

These verses are representative of the concept of abrogation in the Qur'an.

http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...estion&qid=921