If that is the extent of the claim, where is the supposed 'miracle'? Every child and adult human being has 'bones clothed in flesh'.. what possible other conclusion was anyone likely to come up with regarding embryonic development?

Ok, now that I think about it, the verse does not necessarily imply that the bones are clothed after they've been formed.
Well, that's one lousy miracle, no offence, The Quran can do better.

Have you thought maybe its your lousy brain that cannot get around it

No, I haven't.

The miracle is not in the bones before the flesh, it is in the shape of the embryo at its different stages. This link explains it. http://www.answering-christianity.co...evelopment.htm

edit- here's another one http://www.islam101.com/science/embryo.html

Lol, sorry, I've seen a couple of versions of this miracles but never have I seen such a thorough one. It's no better then the rest, but the gum really had me.
IMHO it is just another example of abusing science to get a confirmation of what's written in the Quran, no offence.
Muslim ingenuity in the field of Quranic miracles never fails to surprise me!

You can actually tell the difference between the words more in arabic, so it is clearer. But meh, suit yourself. :P

But what do you mean by "abusing science"? How was it abused?

"Muslim ingenuity in the field of Quranic miracles never fails to surprise me!"
Ever think of the possibility that they may actually be miracles? ;)

And the ayat:
So the ayat is saying talking about the muscles wrapping over the bones. And the extract from Keith L Moore agrees with this.

The miracle is this:
* The Prophet could not have know that (i.e what was revealed in the ayat with regards to the bones being clothed by flesh). In fact, at the time, no scientist could have validated or made that claim. Thus, any possibility that the Quran contains the information borrowed from any human on the planet is debunked [in this case, atleast]. The only conclusion that one can make, is that the ayat is from God himself [note this is not directed at anyone in particular, just stating a point]
* It was only modern day science that proved this claim. So not only does this ayat contain the exact words of God, but scientists have validated His word.

My apologies for not making this clearer in the very first place - I had not properly digested the information before explaining it.

It was abused on many levels.
The leech is intentionally drawn in a way that resembles the embrio (even that way, it does not quite resemble it, but anyway the shape of a leech resembling the shape of an embrio has no significance whatsoever, as it is a completely different type of animal.
The suspension of the embryo. I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. If it means that the mebryo "hangs" from something, it's wrong. If it means the embryo is suspended (as in located) in the uterus, there's nothing miraculous about it.
Blood clot. The presence of uncirculating blood in an embryo does not make the embryo any like a blood clot. And I don't know where did they get the idea that blood does not circulate until the third week. The embryo mighnt not have its own fully developed cardiovascualr system by that time, but that doesn't mean the same blood stays in it for three weeks.
The chewed substance... I don't think I need to comment on this one.
Why of course! I am an agnostic. What I am saying is that the probability of the verses in question being miraculous is very low indeed.
I may be utterly mistaken.

Remember our deal? You said you'll provide other sources proving your claims. Any progress?
Were we not having a debate about muscles and bones only one page ago?
And besides the muscles are not wrapped around the bones, they are grown, which is a whole different thing. It's not like bones are fleshless until the 8th week at which point they're suddenly clothed with muscles. Different connected tissues develop into different things (in some cases simultaniously, but that, as it seems, is not the issue).

Some nasty leech photos that have nothing to do with islam, that look exactly like the drawing. They do look like the embryo, actually.



Picture of a 24 day old human embryo from a site unrelated to islam.

...

Indeed I do remember and I'm on it.

That relates to everything I said in my initial post. My later posts then stated that my initial posts' argument was wrong. I then moved onto the actual argument (see my previous two posts on this thread). They ayat doesn't contradict what you have stated since it's dealing directly with the fact that the bones were clothed with flesh (aka muscles - which is true). Now in honesty, you could argue that hey maybe that's not really a miracle and more of common sense - which I am completely open to as I am not a scholar of embryology or the Quran (I apologise if I lead anyone to believe this with my actions). But, the question raised in the initial post seemed to be dismissing this ayat as being incorrect since he (and eventually both you and I) thought it was dealing with bones and muscles growth formation - it is not!

In other words, the whole point of my last two posts were to show that the initial point (i.e the guy dismissing the ayat) that he is wrong in making that statement since the ayat doesn't deal with what he is dismissing it of.

Now, as far as embryology goes, I don't know any more on this topic. I will look into it and will gladly discuss it with you. But the entire point of this thread hinged on that one statement (which everyone seemed to have forgotten, including myself!). Thus it can now be closed.

Again, I'd be happy to investigate more into embryology as a science and discuss it with you, but this particular thread has been dealt with sufficiently.

Thanks for the conversation that we did have. I learned quite a bit and understood a whole lot more. Thanks once again and peace!

The images do not look like the embryo, except that tehy're shaped similary, like a rectangle or an elipse, their lenght is bigger than their width, that's all. You can there's also a significant amount of differences between the creatures. What particulary strikes me is a giant blood sucking hole on a leech's head, that an average embryo lacks...
And besides, leeches are not the only thing to resebmle an embryo. There's also worms, snails, various sea creatures, chewed gums...
And as I said, a leech and an embryo are so vastly different that a similar shape means nothing at all.