[quote=Whatsthepoint;939183]
You really don't know that, any one theory from a reflecting mind is as good as the next... you have skyscrapers boeing 747 that don't collapse upon themselves or cave in under the pull of gravity.. it has more to do with the design of the element itself than anything.. unless you know exactly what the original design was like can you comment, else you must account for every variable and not simply state 'supposing' this without accounting for that..

I have provided you with two different verses.. one mentioning the sperms accountability for the sex of the fetus, the other using the term أَمْشَاجٍ (amshaj) to denote its combined form! You want a good translation aside from learning Arabic then I recommend Leopold Weiss he lived with the bedouins for 17 years and has a good grip on Arabic as well as English!

You keep dancing around the topic I notice you always like to beat every topic to death rather than read.. how about you pick up the Quran and read it? verses on creation are all throughout not just one or two!

There is only one way to interpret the sex of the fetus a direct result of a male sperm, it isn't really subject to whimsey

verse 75:36-37 مَّنِيٍّ يُمْنَى literally translates to ejected semen.

I believe I have answered all your questions.. these terms are the ones used in the dictionary for semen/sperm/ejection.. I am not sure what to tell you.. you are entitled to believe what you want after all is said and done..

cheers

[quote=Skye Ephémérine;939383]Adam was suppossed to be a human, right?
I hope you understand why I am skeptical of all this. It's not beating the topic to death, it's trying to get a satisfactory reply. You keep telling me what the verse means yet you cannot provide me with an explanation, a brief linguistic analysys as to why that is. You know, word to word.
No English transaltion of the Quran, not even one by Mr Weiss, is as clear as you claim the arabic verse is. If teh verse were so clear that it's the male's gametes that determine the gender, I'd expect at least one of them, or at least those by arabic authors, to translate it in a way you're proposing.
Every English tranlation says that God made people in pairs, males and females, and it's the sperm or a mixture or sperm (or in one case a mixture of male and female excretion) that is responsible. Now, as I said, this can be intepreted in your way, but also in a totally different way. Why did all translators, Weiss included, made it so confusing when they could have simply translated it into something like "the sex is determined...".
Q: Is what you're saying your intepretation of the verse or simply a translation?

I you really have that sympathy for the thread, I can stop.

PS: I was interested in 53:45,46, but never mind.

Sort of having a soul to animate him, how is it different?

People translate to the best of their ability.. I have my doubt that you've purchased the message of the Quran or read any other translations in full sort of little snippets.. to translate 'literally' is impossible.. every word has more than one meaning and will always be subject to the translators understanding. If you look up any of the words in the dictionary you'll receive multiple meanings. Rather than deleve into what is intended, expressed or signified I offer you a dictionary and you draw your own conclusions.. but really you are making every thing much more difficult than it actually is and by choice!

See my above reply!

a translation!

what does that mean? forgive me, when I reply, I am not looking at two responses rather the very last one!

And that He createth the two spouses, the male and the female,

مِن نُّطْفَةٍ إِذَا تُمْنَى

]46}
from a sperm emitted..

is it still difficult? I don't think it can be any more clear than that..
Sex in a mammal is determined by a pair of chromosomes, one called X and the other Y ..The male's sperm carries either an X or Y.
There was a time when folks thought being born a female was a woman's fault.. verses as such put an end to that, although many ignorant don't bother reading or understanding!


I don't see what is there left to ponder about?!

cheers

Yes, it's still difficult! It hasn't gotten any less difficult in the course of the last couple of posts.
Q: Does teh verse in arabic use the word determine? Does it use the word sex/gender?
"He createth the two spouses, the male and the female"
Is this a translation you're happy with? would you say it translates teh basic idea?
If so, why do you think it speaks of sex determination? What exactly is the flaw in interpreting it in a way that allah created the spouses from sperm, which basically everything is created from (man, males and females, human nature...) according to weiss' translation.

Q: 53:45-46, are there female fluids mentioned in the verse?
If not, could you provide a verse about the creation of man, where they are.

the verse in question uses words nutfa (sperm related meanings) and amshaj, which you claimed means mingled or combined. How can the combination of these words denote the presence of female fluids, which you claimed the verse gives equal significance to as the sperm.

I've just spoken with 2 arabic speakers, one of them native, and they disagree with your intepretation.

ok
yes, الذَّكَرَ وَالْأُنثَى denote male and female

using the preceeding sentence from that which is emitted, he created zawjyen(both) (two) (the pair) (male and female)
what does from that which is emitted i.e sperm (mani youmna) or (noutfaten toumna) a male and female is created?.. how many other ways can you translate that?


no female fluids aren't mentioned in this verse since a woman plays no role in the gender of the fetus, the ova is always an X! which gets methylated and inactive but I don't want to get into genetics right now.

here is one verse

( إِنَّا خَلَقْنَا الإِنسَانَ مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ أَمْشَاجٍ نَبْتَلِيهِ فَجَعَلْنَاهُ سَمِيعًا بَصِيرًا) (الإنسان:2)

“Verily We created man from a drop of a mingled fluid-drop (nutfa amshaj), in order to try him: so We gave him (the gifts), of hearing and sight.” (76:2).
here is another with a hadith confirmation


It has been agreed upon by commentators of the Holy Quran that “amshaj” means mingling, as man’s water mingles with that of the woman, and this is also what the Prophet (peace be upon him) confirmed in one of his speeches. Imam Ahmed indicated in his book “Al Musnad” that a Jew passed by the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) while he was addressing his companions. Some people from Quarish said; “O Jew! This man proclaims that he is a prophet.” The Jew said: “ I will ask him of something no one knows except a prophet.” He asked the prophet (PBUH); “ O Mohammed! What is man created from? The Prophet (PBUH) said; “O Jew! Man is created from both: man’s fluid (nutfa) and woman’s fluid.” The Jew said; “This is said by those prophets before you.” .




Doesn't mean female fluid, it means a mingled sperm, not very difficult to conceive what it is mingled with?.. because the sexual act that has brought about off spring hasn't changed in the past oh say 5 million years of so. Aside from that see above hadith!

really? lol how hilarious.. whatever they want to interpret as is inconsequential to me.. purchase a dictionary and use it, then there won't be a need for all this bizarre suspicion!

I am not going to conform to what you want it to be, just because you keep pressing the matter or impressing me with the list of Arabic speakers who disagree with me.

cheers

Know what, let's call it a day.
Let's agree to disagree.

The very last question I'd like to ask is this:
In which of the following verses are female fluids mentioned:
16:4, 18:37, 23:13, 32:8, 36:77, 56:58, 75:37, 80:19.

There is nothing to agree to disagree on.... everything is clear for all to see. You wanting it to be different to cater to your particular mental attitude, isn't going to change the facts of the matter. Quran is cited and hadith is cited above. It is a done deal!

cheers

Ok!
Now if you could please answer my final question.

He then said: I have come to ask you about the child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: The reproductive substance of man is white and that of woman yellow, and when they have sexual intercourse and the male's substance prevails upon the female's substance, it is the male child that is created by Allah's Decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed by the Decree of Allah. The Jew said: What you have said is true; verily you are an Apostle. He then returned and went away. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: He asked me about such and such things of which I have had no knowledge till Allah gave me that. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number 0614)"

Here's another thing to ponder on..

Thauban, the freed slave of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), said: "While I was standing beside the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one of the rabbis of the Jews came and said: Peace be upon you, O Muhammad. I pushed him back with a push that he was going to fall. Upon this he said: Why do you push me? I said: Why don't you say: O Messenger of Allah? The Jew said: We call him by the name by which he was named by his family. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: My name is Muhammad with which I was named by my family. The Jew said: I have come to ask you (something). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Should that thing be of any benefit to you, if I tell you that? He (the Jew) said: I will lend my ears to it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) drew a line with the help of the stick that he had with him and then said: Ask (whatever you like). Thereupon the Jew said: Where would the human beings be on the Day when the earth would change into another earth and the heavens too (would change into other heavens)? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: They would be in darkness beside the Bridge. He (the Jew) again said: Who amongst people would be the first to cross (this bridge).? He said: They would be the poor amongst the refugees. The Jew said: What would constitute their breakfast when they would enter Paradise? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: A caul of the fish-liver. He (the Jew) said. What would be their food alter this? He (the Holy Prophet) said: A bullock which was fed in the different quarters of Paradise would be slaughtered for them. He (the Jew) said: What would be their drink? He (the Holy Prophet) said: They would be given drink from the fountain which is named" Salsabil". He (the Jew) said: I have come to ask you about a thing which no one amongst the people on the earth knows except an apostle or one or two men besides him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Would it benefit you if I tell you that? He (the Jew) said: I would lend ears to that. He then said: I have come to ask you about the child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: The reproductive substance of man is white and that of woman (i. e. ovum central portion) yellow, and when they have sexual intercourse and the male's substance (chromosomes and genes) prevails upon the female's substance (chromosomes and genes), it is the male child that is created by Allah's Decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed by the Decree of Allah. The Jew said: What you have said is true; verily you are an Apostle. He then returned and went away. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: He asked me about such and such things of which I have had no knowledge till Allah gave me that. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number 0614)"

your point being?

Corpus Luteum A yellow mass of cells that forms from the follicle that releases the egg at ovulation. The corpus luteum produces the hormone progesterone that is important for preparing the endometrium for implantation of the fertilized egg.

http://www.mymonthlycycles.com/mglossary.jsp