In (Mathew 12:18): "Here is my servant whom i have chosen,..."

Is it reasonable that god call another god "my servant"?! Choosing this particular word indicates that God doesnt consider Jesus as an equal god or even a son, but rather a human servant.

Besides, even if J. was called son of god in the Gospels, this doesnt make him necessarily a god because Jacob or Israel was called son of god too in the Bible. Plz read (Exodus 4:22): "Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."

King David was called son of god too in the Bible: (psalm 2:7)

Solomon too: (II Sam. 7:13-14)

Even Ephraim: (Jermiah 31:9)

Common People: (Deut. 14:1); (Romans 8:29); (Mathew 5:45-48); and (II Connthians 6:18)

So to be called son of god in the Bible this doesnt prove that J. is a god.


In (Luke 13:33) Jesus himself said:

" I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next day - for surely no "PROPHET" can die outside Jeusalem."

Jesus called himself a prophet and he never called himself a god.

Can you give me just one text from the Bible in which J. said frankly that he is god or asked his followers to worship him?


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To know about Islam in general:
http://itolerance.4t.com/

To know about the 20 Most Common Questions about ISLAM:
http://20questions.4t.com/

The Father, speaking of the Son, says," Your throne, O God, will last forever and forever" ( Hebrews 1:8 ) .

and in the new testiment: 22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son.

firstborn son. a figure of speech indicating isreal's special relationship with God ( see jer 31:9; Hos 11:1)

Jesus told you that he is a prophet, do you believe him?

He also told you that there is only ONE TRUE God, do you believe him?

In (John 17:3) J. declared the truth:

"...that they may know You, THE ONLY TRUE God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

He didnt say that they may know the trinity or may know us, or any indication to multiple gods. He only mentioned God as the only true one, what more?

If this is what J. said, do you believe him?


*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
To know about Islam in general:
http://itolerance.4t.com/

To know about the 20 Most Common Questions about ISLAM:
http://20questions.4t.com/

The Quran states:

'The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers the like of whom had passed away before him . . . O people of the Book - stress not in your religion other than the truth, and follow not the vain desires of a people who went astray before you.' (Surat al-Ma'ida, 75)

And again:

'O people of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion, nor utter anything concerning God save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of God, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not say 'Three'. Desist, it will be better for you. God is only One God. . . . The Messiah would never have scorned to be a slave of God.' (Surat al-Nisa, 171-2)

Jusus was not God, nor did he ever claim to be God!

Luke 3:38

"the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the Son of God"

If you accept one part of the Bible as literally meaning 'son of god' you must accept the other parts as well.

There is nothing about Jesus, from the miracle birth, to his life, to his death, that indicates he is the son of God. His birth is like Adam's - no father. His miracles were not unique - Prophets had peformed them before him. His death did not indicate his divinity - in fact he said that he is 'flesh' to Mary after the crucifixion took place.

And when he talked about himself, he considered himself as a prophet who was sent from God, not a a god who has a freewill to do what he likes.

He said in (John 8:26-29):

".... But He Who sent me is Reliable, and what i have heard from Him I tell the world ... and that i do nothing on my own but speak just what the father has taught me. The One Who sent me is with me, He has not left me alone, for i always do what pleases Him."

I think that if you thought deeply in this quote you will find the truth by yourself, but i will try to help u.

From this quote we can conclude that J. doesnt have a freewill to say to the people what he wants, but rather what God wants him to say. And this is the mission of prophets: "to convey God's message to the world".

That's why he used to say "who sent me", gods dont send each other, God sends humans or angels or any of His creatures.

As in the quote mentioned above, Jesus affirmed that he did nothing on his own but spoke JUST what God taught him.

I think that this sentence tells everything, J. couldnt say a word on his own but only what God taught him.

Even the word "taught" that Jesus used has many implications, god doesnt need to be taught, he should know everything. Who needs to be taught? Humans or creatures in general.

God teaches not be taught.

If you applied God's characteristics on Jesus and applied them on J., the notion of divinity wont be applicable on him.

Instead Humans' characteristics could be easily applied on him.

So J. is a human prophet not a god.

Or what do you think?


*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
To know about Islam in general:
http://itolerance.4t.com/

To know about the 20 Most Common Questions about ISLAM:
http://20questions.4t.com/

Greetings,

In order to have a good discussion, it would be better for us to stop here and I would request PrisonerOfJoy to respond to the points made so far.

There is no point continuing if new allegations/arguments are going to be fired, when the old ones are not dealt with first.

If all that is intended by these discussions is the copying and pasting of articles, then they shall be removed and the threads shall be closed.

If you are willing to abide by these rules, then please feel welcome to discuss your religion with us,

Peace.

yes but the difference between adam and seth is the fact Jesus contained all the attributes of God... Jesus woke the dead did moses do the same?
moses seperated water with what? a staff...1 cor. 12:12-13
"The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body- whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."
Ephesians 1:15-18 "He[Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created: things in rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him... And he is the head of the body, the church...

do you know more than your father? earthly father that is?

In the Name of Allah

IN THE WILL OF THE ONE AND ONLY GOD I CHALLENGE YOU FOR THIS!!!

You claim that you love Jesus and bible.
I'll give you a little example for you to workout. You are telling that God
came to Earth to show his love. For example maybe tomorrow If I were to
be beaten and crucified would you start worshippping me? It might be
that God once again came to Earth in the form of a human. Did the
people who were there to crucify your God knew that they were killing God?
I wonder? Maybe they might not know that, because if they knew
they wouldn't kill the God because God gives his creations food,
shelter, wealth and everything they desire. For example a person won't
kill his friend if he helps him, if he gives money to him, if he cares about him.
So the people who killed your God might not know that it was God.
So my question is " How do you know that Jesus is God?" In the
bible Jesus never claimed that he is God! But he only tried to tell
you not to do wrong and to worship the one and only God! If you
only try to understand the bible more you may come across this.


I'll tell you one thing, we Muslims Love Jesus more than
Christians!!!!
We respect him more than Christians. And we believe Jesus was
given a book which shows right and wrong. But our Quran came
to us from that God who created Jesus and all that exist. Allah has
informed us that a book was given to Jesus, but the book was changed!
(by your preists in general). We love Muhammed (p.b.u.h) but we will never
ever worship him,Insha Allah ( by the will of Allah ) as a Muslim.

'THE Trinity? The one that cracked the IRS D-Base?

-That was a long time ago.

-Jeez... I just thought... you were a guy.

-Most guys do.'

;)

well I do love Jesus don't I? I believe He is something He really is not just a prophet.. prophets have moms and dads Jesus never had a earthly dad.... or a really earthly dad...

Nor did Adam. He didn't even have a mother. Does that make him a greater God?

peace and greetings

The Bible too proves Jesus (pbuh) is not God


Jesus (peace be upon him) just before he supposedly died said, "Forgive them, Father! They know not what they do." Who do you think Jesus is addressing here? If Jesus is God who was he calling the Father (God)? Was Jesus talking to himself? Or do you mean to say that Jesus is his own son and his own father? Or Jesus was pretending not to be God when he prayed to the Father? God would not pray to himself would he? For one moment, don't let your faith cloud your ability to think rationally. Think logically and the answer is clear as crystal.

Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness where he fasted, prayed and was tempted by the Devil before beginning his ministry (Matthew 4:2).Who to?
If Jesus is God then who did he pray to? If Jesus is God, do you believe God to be so weak that the Devil thought he could try to tempt him?

What are the last words of Jesus?

Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34; Luke 23:46; John 19:30

I took the Biblical references below from: CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY

Note the contradictions in the Bible below. May I ask which one of the following do you believe Jesus (PBUH) to have said? And why?

think about it here-------------

Matthew 27:46) - "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

(Mark 15:34) - "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" [/b]

[b](Luke 23:46) - "And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit." And having said this, He breathed His last."

(John 19:30) - "When Jesus therefore had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head, and gave up His spirit."



Which one is right? You cannot tell me, because the Bible is full of flaws and contradictions. What validity does a religion that cannot even answer the questions of it's followers have?

You must realise that in no way do muslims discredit the authenticity of the Bible in the times of Jesus (pbuh). But as you've seen for yourself, the Bible has changed over time, is full of human-error and simply doubtful as to what it's trying to preach.

See below. See how many times the Bible itself acknowledges Jesus's dependency on God.


"THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW"

The Temptation Of Jesus (4:1-11)



OBSERVATIONS FROM THE TEMPTATION OF JESUS

A. WE HAVE THE SAME ADVERSARY...
1. Jesus was tempted by the devil, and so are we - 1 Pe 5:8-9
2. The devil now directs his attention towards the disciples of
Christ - Re 12:17
-- We should not treat him lightly, for the conflict is real!
- Ep 6:12

B. WE HAVE SIMILAR TEMPTATIONS...
1. The lust of the flesh - e.g., immorality, especially when
young
2. The lust of the eyes - e.g., materialism, especially when
middle-aged
3. The pride of life - e.g., pride and arrogance, especially when
elderly
-- These we must overcome, if we wish to have the love of the
Father - 1 Jn 2:15-16

C. WE HAVE THE SAME TOOLS TO OVERCOME...
1. Jesus appealed to the Word of God, and so can we - cf. Ep 6:17
2. Jesus had faith in the plan of God (victory through
suffering), we need a similar shield of faith - Ep 6:16; cf.
He 10:35-39
3. Jesus undoubtedly prayed, for He taught us to use prayer in
overcoming temptation - Mt 26:41 -- The Word of God, faith, and prayer...against these the devil
has no chance!

D. WE HAVE SIMILAR BLESSINGS WHEN WE OVERCOME...
1. Jesus was administered to by angels, angels will carry us home
- cf. Lk 16:22
2. Jesus received wonderful blessings when He ultimately overcame
and ascended to heaven; He has promised similar blessings for
us - cf. Re 2:10,26-27; 3:21

Ep 6:16; cf.
He 10:35-39: Jesus has faith in the plan of God. This clearly demonstrates as God being a different entity to Jesus.

Furthermore, If Jesus is God then who did he receive blessings from when he ascended to Heaven? Was there another God? Doesn't the Bible teach to that there is only one God?

You may check all the quotes are taken from the Bible. Will you say, that certain things I've pointed out from the Bible are not true?
If you do I will ask you why you are following a religion that even you have no faith in?

Pay particular attention to everything that I've high-lighted.


peace be with you

you should already know adam and eve was tempted by satan to eat the fruit.. and they did but Jesus was tempted but did not be tempt.