May Allah reward you for your sincerity.

I still do hope I will get an answer to my questions and that you won't avoid them.

I really want to know why the scholars you are linking to are turning this issue into something that is causing separation amongst the Muslims? What do they exactly mean when they are saying it's permissible? They have already quoted numerous quotations in their Fatwa that shows that they hold it permissible to seek aid from other than Allaah, how can you be sure that their intended meaning is not the same for 'Ya Muhammad'?!

If it is the same meaning, then this no longer remains an issue where there is difference amongst the scholars.

Then please explain to me why one of the links you've linked to is promoting exactly that (seeking aid from graves)? And on top of that, why are you taking your religion from them after knowing this?! These people do not realize how similar what they are calling to is to the belief of the Catholics! I really do hope that you do not believe as true the likes of what I've quoted in my previous post.

Regarding this, as it is a matter of Tawheed and Shirk, scholars cannot have different views. How can one thing be from shirk to one person, and then be from Tawheed to another?! And then we label those who consider it shirk as 'extreme'?

This isn't something (simply saying 'Ya Muhammad' )that is black and white. It isn't always shirk, and sometimes it is shirk. Please re-read what I quoted from Yasir Qadhi, and he explains when it comes under shirk and when it doesn't.

It is very important that we become very clear on these matters because a certain slip can make us fall unknowingly into shirk. And shirk is a very great danger, so much so, that Ibrahim has made Dua' to Allaah to protect him from it. Allaah's saying: "And (remember) when Ibrahim (Abraham) said: "O my Lord! Make this city (Makkah) one of peace and security, and keep me and my sons away from worshipping idols." and the Dua' that Abu Bakr used to make: "‘O Allaah, I take refuge in You lest I should commit shirk with You knowingly and I seek Your forgiveness for what I do unknowingly.’"

When the Khaleel of Allaah was making Dua' to be protected from shirk, and the best man after the Prophets was making the same Dua', how then can we not fear falling into it? How then can some people turn this issue into such a trivial one?

Look I'm not a scholar, so I don't want to go into a lot of detail, coz there are some things that I don't even know.

So all I'm going to say is Allaahu A'alim.

I am not asking you to go into detail nor am I seeking an argument with you or debate; these are basic issues of our religion. These are from the most fundamental matters of our religion, every Muslim is required to know Tawheed - that is our core belief. Our salah, dua, every act of worship revolves around this belief, how then can he remain in the dark about it? This isn't a matter of Fiqh where difference of opinion are allowed and open, this is from Aqeedah, where differences cannot appear in major issues such as this. Every Muslim ought to know what he believes in and why. How can we just believe in whatever and then asked about Tawheed and we say "Allaahu Alam"?!

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah

sis if you say it without the intention of callin upon the prophet, then why say it at all lol?! ok if you wanna say it to rememba him then thats up to you, but if scholars think it can lead to bad stuff and they have proof for it, (ie examples from extremists) then just to prevent that dont you think its even noble to avoid it?!


Assalamu Alaikum

I think i get what sis Mujahida's saying, like saying Ya RasulAllah in of itself isn't shirk (Depending on the intention.)


I think the only big problem that we have in the ummah today is that most of us are ignorant, and listening to the naats which have these Ya Rasulullah themes to them - they have gone extremer and extremer, to the extent that now they actually DO have lyrics which include asking the Messenger of Allah for help and aid.

(If you're in doubt, switch to QTV and see the adverts where they advertise the new naats. There's even a new one called Ya Rasulullah Madad [Oh Messenger of Allah, help me.] And then theres the common ones of asking the Messenger of Allah to call them, invite them to Madinah [with Allah's name being used as a beat in the background.]


There's even a new one by Owais Qadri (i think) with the lyrics of 'if i had the permission, i would want to prostrate to you.' Yeah, i know that if it was permissible, there would be nothing wrong with prostrating to Allah's Messenger (sal Allahu alayhi waSalam) - but it just makes you think of the mindset of these lyrics, why do this if you know its clearly forbidden? Why are you willing to go towards the more controversial areas when the Messenger of Allah has forbidden it already? Won't he love you more if you obey him instead of draw people to something which is forbidden by him?



Now if saying Ya Rasulullah wasn't something controversial in the past, it truly is today - especially if you hear the lyrics of these urdu naats. And i know for sure without a doubt, because lately theres been a huge uprise in this.


Anyway, just to finally explain how the companions understood;

"And the places of worship are for Allah (alone): So invoke [tad'u]* not any one along with Allah;

[Qur'an Surah Jinn 72: 18]




Say (O Muhammad SAW): "I invoke [ad'u]* only my Lord (Allah Alone), and I associate none as partners along with Him."

Say: "It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to the Right Path."

[Qur'an Surah Jinn 72: 20-21]

* ad'u - from the root word du'a (meaning to: invoke, to pray to etc.)

And in

Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123:

Narrated Anas:

Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain."(1) And so it would rain.

Remember that 'Umar ibn Al Khattaab was one of the greatest companions of the Messenger of Allah, the second best man after the Prophets. Yet even these companions understood that we do not pray to anyone other than Allah. This hadith which is in Sahih Al Bukhari is clear and explicit (unlike many others which may be weak, or atleast the scholars have a difference of opinion on their authenticity), and it shows that now that the Messenger of Allah has passed away, if we want to ask for rain - we can ask a pious person from the ahlel bayt (people who are descendants of the Prophet) who is in this world to ask for rain on our behalf.





And Allah knows best.

Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu wa barakathu,

Surely an interesting read but I just must say every time I come across people saying Taqleed is "blind-following a madhhab", as if that is it's meaning, I have to laugh out loud. But that's off-topic.


OK, something on topic. Just some thought that crossed by mind, please don't laugh.

We follow the learned scholars so that we are capable of following the Prophet (salAllahu aleyhi waselam)'s way, correct? Yes, of course.

So in a way or another, our main purpose is to follow Prophet Muhammed (salAllahu aleyhi waselam). We kinda "seek help" from scholars, who give us proof and knowledge, so exactly that our aim will be fullfilled.

Another thing I came to think of, is in a any day situation.

Like my sister is for example, too embarrassed to ask me to help her in her project or grant her forgiveness for something, so she goes and asks my father to tell the message further, 'cause she knows I'm not angry with Dad so I'll take it easier and 'cause Dad can make me think twice etc.

She is not asking Dad for forgiveness, but sending the message further from a better source. Doesn't mean she wouldn't come to me directly, but maybe doing it thru Dad makes her think she's got better chances.. I mean she is "inoviking me" but through the stronger help from my Dad. Astagfiruallah, I don't wanna sound rude or anything, this was just thoughts and Allahu Aleem.

I definietaly agree you should not pray to anyone besides Allah, and it is Allah whom your duas should be directed to, buttawassul has been defined as supplicating Allahu ta’ala by means of an intermediary, "means".

^ tawassul is ok through someone alive or names/attributes of Allaah, or through your own good deeds.

Thats my view inshaAllaah

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullaah

There's nothing wrong with following scholars, since they are alive in this world and we can benefit from them.




Again, there are many narrations where the companions asked the Messenger of Allah to pray for rain. Even many other prayers, however - after he passed away - they stopped asking him, and from the hadith quoted above [from sahih al bukhari] - it becomes clear that they stopped asking him to pray for them after he passed away. That was their clear understanding of the issue.

So it becomes clear that its not forbidden to ask a pious person - who is alive in this world to pray for you. However, once he has passed away - you should not ask them to pray for you since you are calling to them in a supernatural way and expecting them to hear you, although they are in another life now [i.e. the barzakh - the barrier between this life and the next.]



Let's see whats stated in the Qur'an;

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Who provides for you from the sky and from the earth? Or who owns hearing and sight? And who brings out the living from the dead and brings out the dead from the living? And who disposes the affairs?" They will say: "Allah." Say: "Will you not then be afraid of Allah's Punishment (for setting up rivals in worship with Allah)?"

[Qur'an Surah Yunus 10: 31]



And verily, if you ask them: "Who created the heavens and the earth?" Surely, they will say: "Allah (has created them)." Say: "Tell me then, the things that you invoke besides Allah, if Allah intended some harm for me, could they remove His harm, or if He (Allah) intended some mercy for me, could they withhold His Mercy?" Say : "Sufficient for me is Allah; in Him those who trust (i.e. believers) must put their trust."

[Qur'an Surah Zumar 39: 38]

But what's their argument when they pray to other than Allah?

Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya' (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah." Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.

[Qur'an Surah Zumar 39: 3]



And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do you inform Allah of that which He knows not in the heavens and on the earth?" Glorified and Exalted be He above all that which they associate as partners with Him!

[Qur'an Surah Yunus 10: 18]

The reality is, that praying for their intercession is EXACTLY what the christians, jews, and pagans [even at the time of the Prophet] claimed to do. They believe that Allah is their Creator, Sustainer, provider etc, however - they worship other than Allah. Someone might make an extreme claim by saying that invoking them for intermediation isn't an act of worship, but it really still is because you're trying to ask them at a supernatural level. You're not asking someone who's in your presence, rather they're someone whos died.

Christians claim they invoke their saints for their intermediation, aswell as Mary (peace be upon her) and other pious people. Us muslims are falling into the exact same traps.


We know it's Allah who alone answers our prayers, so let's ask Him alone. If we want Him to respond to our prayers, then we should strive to draw closer to Him by obeying His Messenger (sal Allahu alayhi waSalam.)

May Allaah reward you for your sincerity

This is a sincere question to you sister.

Do you know or can you please explain to me what the religion of the Arabs of Jahilliya was before the beloved Messenger?

I just want to have that established before I reply to anything that you've said.

Yeh.

By the way, Here's some useful links insha Allah;

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=18

http://islamtoday.com/show_sub_secti...3&sub_cat_id=0

http://islamtoday.com/show_sub_secti...7&sub_cat_id=0

read up on the rest of it lol

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah